Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Why is gender equality still not a reality in 2016? watch

    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    its all about feminism, right babe?
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    No, THIS is the problem with many people who go on TSR. There is a massively skewed proportion of extreme right wing white male "STEM master race" anti-feminists on here compared with wider society. I don't even know where to start with this post. Well, I'll first point out that I did actually think and do research. Did you actually read the whole post? I never post anything without being informed on the subject. The pay gap statistics I quoted were from the Office for National Statistics from 2015. As to the picture, it basically sums up the problem with some men's attitudes to women. That is a terribly narrow minded stereotype of feminism. Also, I am a future STEM student so your point certainly does not apply to me.
    So the problem isn't women not being as well qualified for higher pay work, it's people pointing out that they aren't as well qualified for higher paid work? I guess it's also not a problem that there women want to work fewer hours, it's that people point out that women don't want to work as long hours? It's not the problem that women get pregnant and have to take time off work, it's a problem that people point it out?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    I am a 21 year old woman and I would describe myself as a feminist going by the actual definition of feminism which is: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes. I am a feminist because I believe that men and women should be equal in society and that neither men nor women should be forced to conform to traditional gender roles NOT because I think that women should be superior to or have more privileges or better rights than men or because I think all men are sexist. I would also say, before people stereotype me, that I am straight, I do not hate men, I do take care of my appearance and I am not in any way the type of radical, extreme feminist that so many people now seem to think that all women who want equal rights are.

    Anyway, to get to why I started this thread, I used to believe that men and women were fairly equal in modern society in the UK. However, as I’ve got older I’ve realised more and more that this is just not the case. In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens even more reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners. The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are many more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business… Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom therefore it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that we are going to have another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea. Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues. So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions.

    It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society. Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape. Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?

    As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”. I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers. Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both. Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version.

    So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men? And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality? In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?
    1) The gender pay gap is made up. It's a complete and utter fabrication. The figures you are quoting are indeed what the ONS found; however, you forgot to mention that those are broad figures. They were arrived at by adding together all the money men earned, and all the money women earned, and finding the difference. This is obviously a ludicrous way to do such a comparison. If you instead compare men and women who are doing the same job, with the same experience, qualifications and working hours, the 'pay gap' varies from 3% in favour of men to 3% in favour of women. In fact, if we consider solely those under the age of about 35, the pay gap is most certainly in favour of women. If we also consider purely those who continue working through their careers - i.e. those who don't take maternity leave - we also continue to see women earn more than men. For this reason, there is not a single well-regarded economist who gives the gender pay gap the time of day. It's a blatant fabrication.

    2) There is not a glass ceiling. The fact is, to get to the top in any field, you've got to be willing to put in a huge number of hours; especially so in politics and big business, which you highlighted. Certainly, there are some women who are willing to do just that, as evidenced by two of them currently running to be the next Prime Minister. But as an average across women, they aren't. If you look at the ONS figures you mentioned, you'll see that on average men work significantly more overtime than women, which is obviously a huge part of making your way to the top. If you aren't willing to go above and beyond, you aren't going to make it to the top. Further, as an average, women seem to be less interested in politics, STEM and big business than men. We see this in choice of degree as well as choice of careers. And there is a growing weight of scientific evidence to suggest this is rooted in our biological differences.

    As an example, a study was conducted a few years ago, over 50-odd countries, to take note of what jobs women were doing. And they found that in countries which had less social and legal gender equality, women were more likely to look for jobs in science and technology. As a culture became more gender equal, women were more likely to head for 'traditional' female jobs like teaching and nursing amongst others. If you're interested in this, there's a really interesting documentary that was done in Norway on the reasons why men and women choose different careers. Whilst the verdict is still out on this, the evidence is growing to suggest that this difference is indeed founded in biology.

    3) Rape culture does not exist in Britain. A rape culture is one where attitudes towards rape are both pervasive and normalised. Given as most people do not think that rape is okay by any stretch of the imagination, that claim is a nonsense. Try looking at somewhere like South Africa. That's what a rape culture is.

    Women are indeed objectified. But guess what? So are men. Hell, the app Lulu has millions of users. Can you imagine the backlash there would be if there was an equivalent app where men rated women on their appearance? Both men and women are objectified all the time, it's a part of the human condition. The only difference is, it's considered okay for women to objectify men. We are constantly being told that there should be no 'ideal' for women to aim for, no one way they should look. And yet, it's considered absolutely fine to expect all men to be shredded. Just look at advertising campaigns. Any ad which shows a thin female model is immediately lambasted by everybody, yet any campaign that suggests men should be ripped is fine. Do you remember the 'Are you beach body ready?' campaign? Hundreds of people complained that it was suggesting all women should aim to look like the model in the picture, and not a one complained about the unrealistic expectations it placed on men.

    Sexist jokes, do not a sexist person make. The clue is rather in the name; JOKE. A joke rather implies that you're not being serious, as in you don't actually believe what you're saying. In much the same way, making a joke about rape doesn't mean you condone rape and making a joke about blacks/whites/asians/some other demographic, doesn't make you a racist. It's seen as acceptable to joke about women 'getting back in the kitchen' because it's a joke, as in not serious. It is not seen as acceptable to seriously suggest that a woman should 'get back in the kitchen' because that's sexist, as woman should not have to do any more domestic work than men.

    4) Again, you're conflating making a joke with seriously holding the view that they're joking about. There is a difference, and if you can't see that then (no offense) you need to lighten up. You don't have the right to not be offended.

    Being called young lady was sexist? I had a teacher that called all the guys in the class 'darling', but didn't do the same for the girls. That isn't sexist, that's just a quirk of language. I call women 'love' and men 'mate' in passing, and I know loads of women who refer to men in passing as 'babe', but these too are not sexist. Explain to me in what way any of the above expresses a view that women are inferior to men. Because I honestly do not see it.

    5) The reason gender equality is not a thing in 2016 is because third wave feminists are far too busy quibbling about the fact that the first guy to land a satellite on an asteroid was wearing a shirt featuring scantily clad women or some such, rather than fighting against the abhorrent oppression women suffer in Africa and the Middle East. It's because they would rather lobby for positive discrimination, than fight the sexist teachings of Islam and Christianity. It's because they'd rather waste their resources trying to convince us all that there's a 'patriarchy' ruling us all, than going to countries where women are denied contraception, or the right to work, or suffrage, or any other fundamental right.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    1) The gender pay gap is made up. It's a complete and utter fabrication. The figures you are quoting are indeed what the ONS found; however, you forgot to mention that those are broad figures. They were arrived at by adding together all the money men earned, and all the money women earned, and finding the difference. This is obviously a ludicrous way to do such a comparison. If you instead compare men and women who are doing the same job, with the same experience, qualifications and working hours, the 'pay gap' varies from 3% in favour of men to 3% in favour of women. In fact, if we consider solely those under the age of about 35, the pay gap is most certainly in favour of women. If we also consider purely those who continue working through their careers - i.e. those who don't take maternity leave - we also continue to see women earn more than men. For this reason, there is not a single well-regarded economist who gives the gender pay gap the time of day. It's a blatant fabrication.

    2) There is not a glass ceiling. The fact is, to get to the top in any field, you've got to be willing to put in a huge number of hours; especially so in politics and big business, which you highlighted. Certainly, there are some women who are willing to do just that, as evidenced by two of them currently running to be the next Prime Minister. But as an average across women, they aren't. If you look at the ONS figures you mentioned, you'll see that on average men work significantly more overtime than women, which is obviously a huge part of making your way to the top. If you aren't willing to go above and beyond, you aren't going to make it to the top. Further, as an average, women seem to be less interested in politics, STEM and big business than men. We see this in choice of degree as well as choice of careers. And there is a growing weight of scientific evidence to suggest this is rooted in our biological differences.

    As an example, a study was conducted a few years ago, over 50-odd countries, to take note of what jobs women were doing. And they found that in countries which had less social and legal gender equality, women were more likely to look for jobs in science and technology. As a culture became more gender equal, women were more likely to head for 'traditional' female jobs like teaching and nursing amongst others. If you're interested in this, there's a really interesting documentary that was done in Norway on the reasons why men and women choose different careers. Whilst the verdict is still out on this, the evidence is growing to suggest that this difference is indeed founded in biology.

    3) Rape culture does not exist in Britain. A rape culture is one where attitudes towards rape are both pervasive and normalised. Given as most people do not think that rape is okay by any stretch of the imagination, that claim is a nonsense. Try looking at somewhere like South Africa. That's what a rape culture is.

    Women are indeed objectified. But guess what? So are men. Hell, the app Lulu has millions of users. Can you imagine the backlash there would be if there was an equivalent app where men rated women on their appearance? Both men and women are objectified all the time, it's a part of the human condition. The only difference is, it's considered okay for women to objectify men. We are constantly being told that there should be no 'ideal' for women to aim for, no one way they should look. And yet, it's considered absolutely fine to expect all men to be shredded. Just look at advertising campaigns. Any ad which shows a thin female model is immediately lambasted by everybody, yet any campaign that suggests men should be ripped is fine. Do you remember the 'Are you beach body ready?' campaign? Hundreds of people complained that it was suggesting all women should aim to look like the model in the picture, and not a one complained about the unrealistic expectations it placed on men.

    Sexist jokes, do not a sexist person make. The clue is rather in the name; JOKE. A joke rather implies that you're not being serious, as in you don't actually believe what you're saying. In much the same way, making a joke about rape doesn't mean you condone rape and making a joke about blacks/whites/asians/some other demographic, doesn't make you a racist. It's seen as acceptable to joke about women 'getting back in the kitchen' because it's a joke, as in not serious. It is not seen as acceptable to seriously suggest that a woman should 'get back in the kitchen' because that's sexist, as woman should not have to do any more domestic work than men.

    4) Again, you're conflating making a joke with seriously holding the view that they're joking about. There is a difference, and if you can't see that then (no offense) you need to lighten up. You don't have the right to not be offended.

    Being called young lady was sexist? I had a teacher that called all the guys in the class 'darling', but didn't do the same for the girls. That isn't sexist, that's just a quirk of language. I call women 'love' and men 'mate' in passing, and I know loads of women who refer to men in passing as 'babe', but these too are not sexist. Explain to me in what way any of the above expresses a view that women are inferior to men. Because I honestly do not see it.

    5) The reason gender equality is not a thing in 2016 is because third wave feminists are far too busy quibbling about the fact that the first guy to land a satellite on an asteroid was wearing a shirt featuring scantily clad women or some such, rather than fighting against the abhorrent oppression women suffer in Africa and the Middle East. It's because they would rather lobby for positive discrimination, than fight the sexist teachings of Islam and Christianity. It's because they'd rather waste their resources trying to convince us all that there's a 'patriarchy' ruling us all, than going to countries where women are denied contraception, or the right to work, or suffrage, or any other fundamental right.
    As a transgender vegan atheist who identifies as a cow i find this greatly offensive
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Don't be so ridiculously arrogant! As a matter of fact, I have virtually never been on tumblr or buzzfeed. Did you actually even read what I wrote? Is the office for national statistics on buzzfeed? I agree that it is much worse in other countries but that does not mean that it doesn't happen here. Debunked by who? Men on social media?
    These myths have been debunked by professionals and scholars, men and women.
    There is no wage gap. It's an earnings gap: women EARN less because they choose to work in sectors that pay less, work less hours, work less overtime, take more holidays, and if they have children, take maternity leave.
    And yes, women do choose to work in sectors that pay less and work less hours: there are plenty on programmes and organisations that encourage and support women who want to work in STEM areas but they just don't want to work in scientific fields (OR WORK IN SEWERS OR IN LAND FILL SITES)
    We leave in a society that accepts and promotes equal opportunities. However, equal opportunities does not mean equal outcome. Do not expect to see the same amount of men and women in every area of work.

    There is no rape culture. There are strict laws enforced against it. A small minority commits it; and when they do, they life is completely destroyed. Even men who are accused and found innocent. The only real rape culture in first world countries is in prisons (but you don't see anyone protesting about that). Furthermore, there is secure systems put in place to help women who have been raped such as safe housing and counselling.

    Most of the issues feminists like to regurgitate comes having a sense of reality. You are so disconnected from reality, you don't see that we live in one of the most liberating countries. There is no shady force somewhere out there to get women, and make sure that they can never get anywhere. If a women fails, it's not because she is a women. Women need to take responsibilities of themselves and their actions. Stop making every issue a gendered issue.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gladiatorsword)
    As a transgender vegan atheist who identifies as a cow i find this greatly offensive
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    I am a 21 year old woman and I would describe myself as a feminist going by the actual definition of feminism which is: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes. I am a feminist because I believe that men and women should be equal in society and that neither men nor women should be forced to conform to traditional gender roles NOT because I think that women should be superior to or have more privileges or better rights than men or because I think all men are sexist. I would also say, before people stereotype me, that I am straight, I do not hate men, I do take care of my appearance and I am not in any way the type of radical, extreme feminist that so many people now seem to think that all women who want equal rights are.

    Anyway, to get to why I started this thread, I used to believe that men and women were fairly equal in modern society in the UK. However, as I’ve got older I’ve realised more and more that this is just not the case. In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens even more reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners. The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are many more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business… Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom therefore it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that we are going to have another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea. Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues. So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions.

    It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society. Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape. Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?

    As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”. I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers. Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both. Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version.

    So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men? And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality? In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?

    Tl;dr

    Anyway most people, women included, acknowledge women are crazy, and many things are better left in mens hands

    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Esoteric-)
    Tl;dr

    Anyway most people, women included, acknowledge women are crazy, and many things are better left in mens hands

    Implies that dating someone who is as crazy as it is possible to be is alright if they're also really hot..
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Anyone informed on the 'wage gap' knows it's better described as an earnings gap.

    Men work more hours per week on average, take less time off work on average, are less likely to retrain, and are more likely to be employed in more profitable industries.

    There's also only a very small gap between men and women under 35, in addition to a negligible gap between men and women who never marry. I wonder why?

    It's been illegal to discriminate pay by gender for decades, and with each new amendment to legisltion (Paycheck Fairness Act, etc.), the gap hardly changes and there aren't any sudden surges in lawsuits, either.

    The gap is also just as large in staunchly feminist countries such as Sweden as it is in the US and UK.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    If you have a problem with the wage gap then your problem is with the uk judicial and legal system as the equal pay act made differential wages for genders illegal

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Be civil guys.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    We are not equal because we are different in every way.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    "I didn't get the job because somebody else was better" and "I didn't get the job because I'm [insert group here]" are two different thing, the first is legal, the second is illegal (mostly, there are a few exceptions and they have to be explicitly stated), although when somebody who can use the latter doesn't get a job it's likely the first, or they were stupid and tried to get something they knew they couldn't. Then again, nothing new for the "liberal" youth to develop a victim complex to justify all their own failings and incompetence.
    Do you not think that it's difficult for someone to prove that they didn't get the job due to discrimination? Do you really think companies can't twist the facts in order to get round the equality laws if they want to? Approximately 40% of managers admit that they are less inclined to hire women who are of child bearing age or who already have children although that is technically illegal. Why do you think women are often asked about marriage/children in job interviews? So, in theory yes you are correct but in reality it often doesn't work like that unfortunately. That is a horrendously arrogant attitude. What gives you the right to say that women and other groups that experience discrimination are stupid and try to get jobs that they are unqualified for? I'm in no way saying that women can't be turned down for a job for legitimate reasons but discrimination does happen.

    Additionally, I would like to point out to you that I am not unemployed and I have never personally been turned down for a job. I have been in school, followed by three gap years due to illness and I am intending to study a STEM subject at university for 2016 entry.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I don't do empathy, especially for people with unfounded victim complexes, or is the ONS and every other reputable group that does analyses on the the grievances of OP part of the patriarchal conspiracy?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    We can see that... If you actually read what I wrote and research the issue in an unbiased way yourself then you will see that what I have said is not unfounded. I do not have a "victim complex". What I have said is factually correct and the majority of it is not even about me personally. Again, did you even read what I wrote? Is it likely that I think the ONS is part of a patriarchal conspiracy given that I quoted statistics from it?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by psychojonas)
    Come on guys, it's [CURRENT YEAR]!
    If you actually read what I wrote in both my original post and my subsequent posts I have made extensive, clear, factual arguments not just said it's the current year. I was simply meaning that you would think that gender equality would be more advanced in modern society than it in fact is. This is not still 1950 contrary to what many men on this thread seem to think.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You don't have victim complexes, you just blame the system rather than yourselves when things don't go right even when all the evidence goes against you. Is the ONS etc part of the patriarchal conspiracy or not?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I have already answered about your so-called "victim complexes". The evidence does not go against us; that is the point. However, I doubt you will even consider that you might be wrong due to your prejudices. No, the ONS is not part of a patriarchal conspiracy. As I said in my previous post, it in fact supports what I have been saying.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lawlieto)
    I think women don't get into very high positions because eventually they will have kids (more than one probably) which takes many years of their lives, so they can't build their career.
    Not all women have children but the point is that women who do have children should still have the opportunities to progress in their careers. Men can have top level careers and children so why shouldn't women. It doesn't take many years. Maternity leave takes weeks or possibly months not years and the point is that men should take an equal role in childcare and household chores and there should be more paid paternity leave in order to enable women to progress through their careers.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Not all women have children but the point is that women who do have children should still have the opportunities to progress in their careers. Men can have top level careers and children so why shouldn't women. It doesn't take many years. Maternity leave takes weeks or possibly months not years and the point is that men should take an equal role in childcare and household chores and there should be more paid paternity leave in order to enable women to progress through their careers.
    Why should they? I mean sure, they should be willing to, but I'd bet many more men would be willing to pass the care of their children over to someone else than women. Many women stay at home to raise kids because they want to, but all these will get factored into statistics that you try to use to back up your claims of inequality.

    Yes, the western world treats men and women differently, but overall I wouldn't say it was unequal.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    You should start a blog
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kelefi)
    hard work = results.

    If there's a pay gap, perhaps rather than complain about it, why not work harder so that the pay gap becomes nonexistent so that future generations won't have to experience it? If there's a culture that 'men can do better than women' why not continuously prove otherwise?
    I have always worked hard and I intend to continue to work hard in order to get a good degree and hopefully eventually a top level job in order to do just that. However, the point I was making is that it shouldn't be harder for women to get into certain career paths or to get promoted/progress in their chosen career than men.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.