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Government responds to second EU referendum petition watch

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    (Original post by jneill)
    By the terms of that Leaver's petition, "Too low" was below 75% - actual turnout was 71.6%
    And his Majority target was 60% - actual majority was 52%.

    So why was it reasonable for a Leaver to ask for those stipulations if Leave "lost", but not now in the event of a Leave "win".

    And, by the way, some previous referendums, including the Scottish Devo 1979 referendum, required a 40% majority of the total electorate. That referendum was overturned because despite a string majority it wasn't more than 40% of the electorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotti...ferendum,_1979

    Bottomline, there should have been similar requirements for this referendum. Especially given the potential significant constitional impact of this advisory (not legally binding) referendum.

    However as there weren't all people can is debate the issue. And democracy allows that debate to occur. And also to potentially push for a 2nd Referendum (or General Election) to approve any final "Leaving" deal once A50 is completed.
    Why weren't people pushing for this sort of stuff before the referendum? That petition was basically ignored until the result came in, at which point sore losers descended on it.

    If people actually cared about turnout, they would have pushed for this sort of thing (in decent numbers, which this petition did not get until after the vote) when the referendum was being organised, not after the result. The fact that this did not happen suggests the majority of them are just butthurt at losing and are using turnout as an excuse to hide behind. That's the impression I'm getting from this whole affair.

    And you're missing a problem with imposing minimum turnout requirements - all the remain side would have to do is abstain from voting in decent numbers and the result would not stand as the turnout would be too low. It gives one side a big incentive to just not vote and they'd get their way like that, which would hardly be a fair system.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    And you're missing a problem with imposing minimum turnout requirements - all the remain side would have to do is abstain from voting in decent numbers and the result would not stand as the turnout would be too low. It gives one side a big incentive to just not vote and they'd get their way like that, which would hardly be a fair system.
    That's an interesting idea, but under the terms of the proposal in the petition would have been risky as it could still have lead to a Leave win with a high enough majority ie >60% if Remain had abstained in numbers.

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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    Why weren't people pushing for this sort of stuff before the referendum? That petition was basically ignored until the result came in, at which point sore losers descended on it.

    If people actually cared about turnout, they would have pushed for this sort of thing (in decent numbers, which this petition did not get until after the vote) when the referendum was being organised, not after the result. The fact that this did not happen suggests the majority of them are just butthurt at losing and are using turnout as an excuse to hide behind. That's the impression I'm getting from this whole affair.

    And you're missing a problem with imposing minimum turnout requirements - all the remain side would have to do is abstain from voting in decent numbers and the result would not stand as the turnout would be too low. It gives one side a big incentive to just not vote and they'd get their way like that, which would hardly be a fair system.
    You are missing the point. A referendum like this, should have been like the original EEC referendum where party politics did not play a big part. It was totally focused on the EEC issue.... For this reason alone we deserve "best of three".

    This referendum was only held because Tory party split. The voter was often not sure if another referendum was on the cards (eg Boris said right at the beginning "just a negotiating ploy) - many people did not believe his retraction (I know a couple of elderly voters who voted leave simply for this reason). Or if they were voting simply to be against Cameron.

    This referendum has not shown what the nation really thinks. It shows that SPOONs and the SUN can have a big influence if there is a LABOUR vacuum. You can see all the pressure to call it quits is coming mainly from UKIP voters.

    How many labour or LibDems or even Torys are sayting "this is it". I live in Southern England - and guess what even Torys want another shot!
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    (Original post by jneill)
    So on the EU, as I've said many times, a Referendum or GE should be held before A50 times out with whatever deal is ultimately negotiated.

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    Why though? You seem to be suggesting that just before we actually leave we should have a referendum on whether we should still leave, or beg to stay and be told to **** off.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Why though? You seem to be suggesting that just before we actually leave we should have a referendum on whether we should still leave, or beg to stay and be told to **** off.
    We don't have to beg to stay. We just stop leaving. We are the country considering leaving, we aren't being thrown out.

    We can stop A50 at any time up until the 2 year time limit. If we do so we Remain.

    According to a report to the House of Lords. http://www.publications.parliament.u...om/138/138.pdf

    "A*House of Lords report*on the process of withdrawing from the European Union published in May 2016 provides the most authoritative analysis. David Edward, a former judge, stated: “It is absolutely clear that you cannot be forced to go through with it if you do not want to: for example, if there is a change of government.” "

    And it's actually a key part of any Brexit negotiations.

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    (Original post by jneill)
    We don't have to beg to stay. We just stop leaving. We are the country considering leaving, we aren't being thrown out.

    We can stop A50 at any time up until the 2 year time limit. If we do so we Remain.

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    Umm, no we can't

    "
    The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. "
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Umm, no we can't

    "
    The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. "
    Read my edit.

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    (Original post by jneill)
    Read my edit.

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    Because the EU will totally uphold that, especially when the treaty that says negotiations cannot be extended, let alone be cancelled, without unanimous support, is supreme.
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    Instead of blaming a 17 million majority voted Leave, why not blame Cameron for taking the risk in the first place? Corbyn's complacency? Remain's project fear?

    Sure there might be a debate, but that'll be it, the MPs will spend 20 mins on it tops.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Source?
    Okay where have you gotten the remainers think they made the wrong decision? This webpage says nothing on that.
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    Instead of blaming a 17 million majority voted Leave, why not blame Cameron for taking the risk in the first place? Corbyn's complacency? Remain's project fear?

    Sure there might be a debate, but that'll be it, the MPs will spend 20 mins on it tops.
    I think you've been reading the wrong newspapers.
    Its not 17 million majority leave lol...

    About 45 million eligible voters and 36% of them (17m) voted leave. The "majority" was about 1m of voters and, if count non voters it was a minority of about 10 m. So either majority of 1m or minority of 10m. Take your pick, but either way it was not a majority of 17m. At least not on this planet.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I think you've been reading the wrong newspapers.
    Its not 17 million majority leave lol...

    About 45 million eligible voters and 36% of them (17m) voted leave. The "majority" was about 1m of voters and, if count non voters it was a minority of about 10 m. So either majority of 1m or minority of 10m. Take your pick, but either way it was not a majority of 17m. At least not on this planet.
    Which is the bigger number, 17.4m or 16.1m?

    I know you're having some issues but a 10 year old could answer that with ease.

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    (Original post by jneill)
    We don't have to beg to stay. We just stop leaving. We are the country considering leaving, we aren't being thrown out.

    We can stop A50 at any time up until the 2 year time limit. If we do so we Remain.

    According to a report to the House of Lords. http://www.publications.parliament.u...om/138/138.pdf

    "A*House of Lords report*on the process of withdrawing from the European Union published in May 2016 provides the most authoritative analysis. David Edward, a former judge, stated: “It is absolutely clear that you cannot be forced to go through with it if you do not want to: for example, if there is a change of government.” "

    And it's actually a key part of any Brexit negotiations.

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    I would love to see their reaction if that did happen...
 
 
 
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