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How often do you view the Islamic Society? watch

  • View Poll Results: How often do you view the Islamic Society thread?
    I am Sunni - Frequently
    19.42%
    I am Sunni - Infrequently
    16.50%
    I am Sunni - Rarely/Never
    7.77%
    I am Shia - Frequently
    0
    0%
    I am Shia - Infrequently
    1.94%
    I am Shia - Rarely/Never
    0.97%
    I am Non-Muslim - Frequently
    4.85%
    I am Non-Muslim - Infrequently
    6.80%
    I am Non-Muslim - Rarely/Never
    41.75%

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    It's nice to see pleasantries exchanged between a Muslim and a non-Muslim on a thread like this.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Alright, I'll humour you, even though I'm fairly sure you know what it is that I'm referring to.

    [spoiler]

    I received no reply to that from you, though I did get a lengthy rant from Saeed (which has since unfortunately been deleted) that was mostly about my apparent shortcomings of character than anything I had actually said, for which, incidentally, you gave him a pat on the back. :lol:

    Spoiler:
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    To any mods: I am not trying to restart a long off-topic conversation from another thread; simply reminding Al-farhan of something, at his request.
    I really wasn't aware
    If your incessant drumming up was about the above post then by all means you can expect an answer tomorrow just to humour you
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I really wasn't aware
    If your incessant drumming up was about the above post then by all means you can expect an answer tomorrow just to humour you
    Fair enough - I shall endeavour to minimise my incessant drumming until then. :lol:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Fair enough - I shall endeavour to minimise my incessant drumming until then. :lol:
    :hat:
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I'm not calling Al-Farhan bad, I'm saying Tawheed's trying to make him look bad. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...2#post66484142 Read the latter part of Tawheed's post and now look, is Tawheed trying to make Al-Farhan look bad? (Might've misunderstood you on the Al-Farhan part so forgive me if I have )

    Sister I really disagree. This is more about religion if anything. The ISOC OP is purely a religious issue because people do not agree with certain beliefs being added (due to our great scholars having ruled against them). It would be akin to spreading falsehood if everyone agreed to it. World affairs are not being talked about with regards to the OP.

    Moving unto world affairs, the Isoc behaves very strangely around issue. Now if I post about Sisi killing Egyptian Muslims, noone complains because noone is a Sisi supporter and people make their duas and make ameens. Now I post about Iranian backed militias murdering Muslims, people make make their "may Allah grant them Jannah" duas again and add ameens but then when one person defends the killer of the muslims, the Isoc, rather than defend their dying brothers, go into a shell and say "oh not politics again". The same Muslims who say they care about Syria suddenly can't find it within themselves to say "No, that man is evil and kills Muslims, you should not be supporting him". Rather they oppose anyone who highlights the atrocities being committed in Syria and tell them to stop with the politics. This is especially where my opposition to HAnwar comes from.

    The Muslims are one ummah and they feel pain together so I will always denounce the killer of Muslims. This is not just politics, this is Islam. Do you think this is incorrect?

    Do you not think it is evil if a person supports the killer of Muslims (e.g. Khameini, Assad, Putin etc...)? If the person can be excused by ignorance because they may just be naive, do you think it's right if other people don't challenge their views?

    Noone has ever demanded such a thing and it's not correct to change ISOC rules to prepare for a scenario which does not look like occurring. In fact, it's a waste of time IMO. Yes, see that's why we would have no problem with you because you wouldn't push it. But in this case we have a user, who after being refused by majority ( and with no support shown from regular Isocers), has tried get around member's wishes and gone to the moderators. If you did this - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...4&postcount=83 , you'd be challenged too
    Lol you did misunderstand me I was not referring to you, just in general more like against anyone saying bad about him.

    Firstly, forgive me for my typing which may have made you soo confused lol. Bear with me insha'Allah, I am typing from mobile, it is annoying typing long posts in this way. Mostly goes wrong.

    Also with the stuff I was on about that involved politics and not religion was just like a statement more like.

    With the world affairs I agree with you because I do not approve of what he posted because firstly it was not necessary and introduced misunderstanding. Secondly, killers are killers may it be a king,Queen whatever on earth. Hence, if there is clear proof of this I do not reject. And I was more like trying to say, if one does find a fault, then first I think it may be a wiser option to pm or vm them and see if the response from them. Then still if the person does not justify, explain themselves then the next step would be imo to respond directly by post. I hope this makes it more clear. Actually, I was referring more to Tawheed bro that he should have done this if he did find fault. But also I feel we all should in future Insha'Allah. Although this may not really solve anything but one can never know, it may just. Like honestly, if a group did the killing then they did it, but I will not generalise the entire sect (including a its followers, may it be right or wrong) just that group or inviduals who did the evil action overall. I believe the post Tawheed bro responded to, did not direct it at a sect but individuals. Hence, I don't disapprove the post made by AlifunArnab (I think that was his name) entirely.

    Yes in a honestly if majority went against me for a certain demand or view on that particular thread. Then of course I will be the better person to leave it and move on. Plus I do not have the time to push people and make the society look bad and introduce negativity. I will adopt any way to show my views that will seem less chaotic I guess.

    Oh right thanks. Interesting poll lol.
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    I assume by 'wahhabi' you mean to say salafi's.

    There are fundamental Aqeedah differences between a number of groups in the ahlus-sunnah, and the salafi-subgroup. To give you a basic introduction, Salafi'ism is a brand of Islam that seeks to take a very literalistic, rigid interpretation of the Quran and sunnah. They are intolerant of any diverging views save their own,
    They recognise where there has traditionally been ikhtilaaf; they are intolerate of clear deviation and innovation.

    and this leads them to abusing and asking others to forsake many scholars or groups in the ahlus-sunnah, such as Sheikh Hamzah Yusuf, Yassir Qadhi, the barelavi's, ashari's, even groups among the hanafi's (salafi-islam clashes a lot with hanafi-islam). They are quick to call others deviant, and very, very secterian.
    This is not true for the whole of Salafiyyah, and I have heard it advised to take the good and leave the bad from whichever scholars and speakers; naturally there are some who will advise against them, rightly or wrongly but it can hardly be generalised as an issue with all Salafis.

    The Hanafi school of fiqh clashes with Salafi fiqh in so far as their methodology in deriving rulings is concerned, I believe; this is the same between all the madhabs. Salafis mainly clash with those who ascribe to the Hanafi school not because of the Hanafi school itself but because of those groups themselves being upon innovation e.g. there is a lot of innovation in Pakistan but the problem isn't with the Hanafi school, rather it's with the people there themselves.

    They refute Asharis on the same basis that you try to refute Athaaris, and they refute Barelwis in the same way that you might refute Alawwis or Zaydis - perhaps this makes you/Ithna Asharis sectarian? There is not one group who claims to be Islamic but that it refutes the positions and practices of those around them.

    Alhamdullilah, my salafi-cousin is rather kind to me, and not secterian, and i have had deep indepth discussions with him about his beliefs. So not all salafi's are like that.
    Fair enough :yy:

    Many converts often join salafi islam out of an idea of following the pure sunnah. Many , after research, often then leave salafi islam.
    And after research many stay Salafi, or others from other groups become Salafi...

    For one, Salafi's derive a lot of their teachings from Ibn Taymiyyah, and are prone to giving very literalistic interpretations about Allah azwj himself.

    IslamQa, which is a well-known salafi website, promoting bigotry against other groups who do not adhere to their specific brand of Islam, affirm that Allah azwj has 'two feet':

    "Affirmation Allah has two feet" https://islamqa.info/en/166843

    Here is a salafi-sheikh affirming that Allah azwj has 'fingers': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr5cZZ-2DAE

    A number of madhabs in the ahlus-sunnah do not believe Allah azwj has two feet, and interpret the ahadith differently. There are some significant differences therefore, in the understanding of Tawheed itself between salafi's and other groups within the ahlus-sunnah.
    We have discussed this on another thread where this has been explained to you where Allah is not like His creation but all attributes of Allah are acknowledged. This is to do with Athaari theology vs Ashari theology (and other schools of theology similar to this). You can get Athaari Hanafis, Shafi'i's, Malikis etc, therefore it is not limited to those of Salafiyyah - it is a topic of discussion within Ahlus-Sunnah generally. Though you have not said anything negative in this regard, it is implied that you consider Athaari theology to be abnormal, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

    Here is a wonderful article written by Yassir Qadhi, who left the salafi-sect and became a Hanafi (afaik). He has had a lot of abuse from salafi's due to this, but here is his article: http://muslimmatters.org/2014/04/22/...r-yasir-qadhi/

    Video of why Sheikh Yasir Qadhi left the salafi-sect:



    Websites, video's and articles from scholars/sheikhs/alims/adherents from the Ahlus-Sunnah wal jamaah refuting the modern salafi-sect and movement:

    1. Great set of articles by the ahlus-sunnah wal jammaah website sunnah.org refuting salafi-islam: http://www.sunnah.org/articles/Wahhabiarticleedit.htm
    2. Ahlus-sunnah wal jmaah sheikh, Asrar discusses salafi islam (he calles them 'najdi's', so you don't get confused. Najd is where he believes they were founded):
    3. Sheikh Asrar Rashid (ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah sheikh) talks about salafi-ism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY88v4yZTHg
    4. Video where Sheikh Hamzah Yusuf (maliki sheikh) responds to the salafi-habit of refuting everyone and regarding anyone to does not adhere to their strict interpretation of Islam as apostates/deviants: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMkyW06vu4k

    I even have ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah family members, who respect me but have firm theological disagreements with shia Islam, tell me that they are opposed to the salafi's.
    A question out of curiosity: would you be offended or call me sectarian if I posted a video referring to Shia as Rawafidh/Rafidhis? That is not meant to be an insulting question but I would like to know.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    It's nice to see pleasantries exchanged between a Muslim and a non-Muslim on a thread like this.
    I hope we all can get along in a friendly manner.
    Debates will always happen and disagreements will occur. But we should remember our good character and virtues.
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    (Original post by h333)
    I hope we all can get along in a friendly manner.
    Debates will always happen and disagreements will occur. But we should remember our good character and virtues.
    Nah, you didn't miss it. See posts #103, #107, #109, and #110.

    It's all good fun from my point of view. I've poured my fair share of scorn but I have to say, I'm somewhat surprised by how personal much of this affair has gotten. This is what happens when people become incapable of admitting to mistakes on their part, I suppose.

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    The sneaky edit was not missed.
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    Lol ISOC is thirsty today
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    It's nice to see pleasantries exchanged between a Muslim and a non-Muslim on a thread like this.
    It's nice but awkward too. As if I should tip-toe around it. :ninja:

    At least it's defeated some of the 'in-the-closet bigot' conspiraces I had about 'some' people.
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    (Original post by Rorschach II)
    Most (if not all) of these are Muslims; how are you supposed to understand or see a representative demographic if you're unfairly notifying Muslims?

    You probs won't see any accurate stats with the non-Muslims.
    (And you probably wouldn't have anyway because I guess / reckon Muslims would have had a disposition to click on this thread anyway. Just from a semi-scientific point of view. )
    The real purpose of the thread was to understand the demographic usage of the ISOC within the Islamic community (between Sunni and Shia), but based on experience, non-Muslims like to vote in polls too, so I decided to include them just for the hell of it - perhaps it might also teach me something about other TSRians :holmes: My quoting in was just of people who posted a reasonable amount on the ISOC thread, not as a way of twisting the poll anywhich way, but just ensuring participation of its users themselves.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Nah, you didn't miss it. See posts #103, #107, #109, and #110.

    It's all good fun from my point of view. I've poured my fair share of scorn but I have to say, I'm somewhat surprised by how personal much of this affair has gotten. This is what happens when people become incapable of admitting to mistakes on their part, I suppose.
    Spoiler:
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    The sneaky edit was not missed.
    Not fun for me, I am like more serious with conveying my message. Yeah but honestly, you were very stubborn with your debates I remember.
    My very first post, which was meant to be positive but on a thread about Islam was also challenged loool by non-Muslims (more so atheists I believe). That time I had no idea of tsr that much (was only my second thread I think I posted on) with having users like you and others I won't name lurking around.

    Hmm yeah maybe so but hey where there is love and care, there will be arguments.

    Yeah I thought there was more to it than that but then realised nope.
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    (Original post by h333)
    Lol you did misunderstand me I was not referring to you, just in general more like against anyone saying bad about him.

    Firstly, forgive me for my typing which may have made you soo confused lol. Bear with me insha'Allah, I am typing from mobile, it is annoying typing long posts in this way. Mostly goes wrong.

    Also with the stuff I was on about that involved politics and not religion was just like a statement more like.

    With the world affairs I agree with you because I do not approve of what he posted because firstly it was not necessary and introduced misunderstanding. Secondly, killers are killers may it be a king,Queen whatever on earth. Hence, if there is clear proof of this I do not reject. And I was more like trying to say, if one does find a fault, then first I think it may be a wiser option to pm or vm them and see if the response from them. Then still if the person does not justify, explain themselves then the next step would be imo to respond directly by post. I hope this makes it more clear. Actually, I was referring more to Tawheed bro that he should have done this if he did find fault. But also I feel we all should in future Insha'Allah. Although this may not really solve anything but one can never know, it may just. Like honestly, if a group did the killing then they did it, but I will not generalise the entire sect (including a its followers, may it be right or wrong) just that group or inviduals who did the evil action overall. I believe the post Tawheed bro responded to, did not direct it at a sect but individuals. Hence, I don't disapprove the post made by AlifunArnab (I think that was his name) entirely.

    Yes in a honestly if majority went against me for a certain demand or view on that particular thread. Then of course I will be the better person to leave it and move on. Plus I do not have the time to push people and make the society look bad and introduce negativity. I will adopt any way to show my views that will seem less chaotic I guess.



    Oh right thanks. Interesting poll lol.
    Sorry about that.

    No don't worry, wasn't your fault.

    I understand where you coming from regarding startinh from vm/pms but we are long past that stage. This has been going on for maybe a year. I don't think anyone lays a finger on the whole sect. It is just that certain people support the wrongdoing party, so this will always lead into conflict. Yeh Alifunarnub is normally quite specific about whom he's blaming for X atrocity.

    :yy:

    Yw.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    The real purpose of the thread was to understand the demographic usage of the ISOC within the Islamic community (between Sunni and Shia), but based on experience, non-Muslims like to vote in polls too, so I decided to include them just for the hell of it - perhaps it might also teach me something about other TSRians :holmes: My quoting in was just of people who posted a reasonable amount on the ISOC thread, not as a way of twisting the poll anywhich way, but just ensuring participation of its users themselves.
    I thought you might have just been wanting to see the demographics in the Muslim community.

    And the part of your post in bold, a very valid point.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Sorry about that.

    No don't worry, wasn't your fault.

    I understand where you coming from regarding startinh from vm/pms but we are long past that stage. This has been going on for maybe a year. I don't think anyone lays a finger on the whole sect. It is just that certain people support the wrongdoing party, so this will always lead into conflict. Yeh Alifunarnub is normally quite specific about whom he's blaming for X atrocity.

    :yy:

    Yw.
    Np.

    Tbh I agree I don't think that anyone was trying to do that. It is the party that one or two may disagree with, who they support, but that is not necessary to mention when one knows they are involved in certain evil actions. Even if that party may have had done good elsewhere. :yy:

    Still I would really like to say to you, as a well wisher. If anything like this arises again, please use the your best, pleasant and merciful tone possible. This will make the other person hopefully think about the situation more carefully, will be more willing to even listen to you at the first place and allow a more calm discussion to proceed. (It does not matter how many times you may have to do this, to the same or different person). Then if the other person still does not appreciate it, they will be the one to leave a bad impression of themselves, not you. Also, then atleast you have not made anyone feel isolated or given them the reason to claim so. Remember our creator is watching us SubhanAllah. A small good act can be priceless.
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    (Original post by h333)
    Np.

    Tbh I agree I don't think that anyone was trying to do that. It is the party that one or two may disagree with, which they support, but that is not necessary to mention when one knows they are involved in certain evil actions. Even if that party may have had done good elsewhere. :yy:

    Still I would really like to say to you, as a well wisher. If anything like this arises again, please use the your best, pleasant and merciful tone possible. This will make the other person hopefully think about the situation more carefully, will be more willing to even listen to you at the first place and allow a more calm discussion to proceed. (It does not matter how many times you may have to do this, to the same or different person). Then if the other person still does not appreciate it, they will be the one to leave a bad impression of themselves, not you. Also, then atleast you have not made anyone feel isolated or given them the reason to claim so. Remember our creator is watching us SubhanAllah. A small good act can be priceless.
    I don't really understand your first paragraph.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    I don't really understand your first paragraph.
    That no one was trying to pick on a certain sect as you said. And that it is still wrong if a person supports a party entirely (that happens to be from or related to their sect etc), when it is clear that they are involved in some evil actions eg allowing killings of the innocents.
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    (Original post by h333)
    That no one was trying to pick on a certain sect as you said. And that it is still wrong if a person supports a party entirely (that happens to be from or related to their sect etc), when it is clear that they are involved in some evil actions eg allowing killings of the innocents.
    Ah right. It is clearly wrong but unfortunately you're no doubt going to see many many more debates about this same issue in future
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Ah right. It is clearly wrong but unfortunately you're no doubt going to see many many more debates about this same issue in future
    Cool. I know I may have to as we are humans, not perfect. Let's just hope not on ISOC thread though in a very unpleasant manner or it is quickly taken elsewhere to discuss/debate.
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    (Original post by PrincessBO$$)
    Hello. I'm finally here
    What's the point of this thread may i ask?
    There is a shia poster who wants ISOC to recognise shia as being Muslim in the opening post on the thread but because there's like 1 shia on the forum that is not needed. The poll is to prove that.
 
 
 
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