Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by niteninja1)
    You do realise that students can also do a 13+ right to start in a grammar at 13
    But why not just have streams making the whole process far easier and more fluid?

    Also what happens if someone is great at maths and awful at English?
    I don't see what grammar schools offer than streamed schools do not.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    Oh my goodness. Really? You can't think of anything?
    Yep.
    If you have a streamed school with top sets for the brightest to push them on, what benefits does a grammar school have?
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yep.
    If you have a streamed school with top sets for the brightest to push them on, what benefits does a grammar school have?
    exactly wonder if any one will have an answer to that
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    Oh my goodness. Really? You can't think of anything?
    Increasing the class divide?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by catinsomehat)
    I went a grammar school. Everyone around you is intelligent but I didn't find that particularly useful, it actually got to be kind of annoying. I'm sure a lot of you will find this too when you go to university and you do engineering or something.
    I never relied on teachers to teach me either, which is how I got into a grammar school in the first place. A lot of people tend to be this way that go to these types of schools, it doesn't really matter where they end up.

    Aside from maybe helping in applying later on to places like Oxford or Cambridge I really don't really think it matters very much which school you go to.
    If you didn't go to a grammar school places like Oxford and Cambridge statistically take people from comprehensive schools that have shown good leadership and become head boy or head girl (even though they claim that they only look at grades, that's clearly a lie), so as long as you can show something like that and you get good grades and have good been put in a position like that then it won't matter and you'll be more likely to get in.

    I doubt that new grammar schools will be given the same treatment the already existing grammar schools are given by Oxbridge anyway, at least not for a long time.
    Exactly,

    And an already driven 7 in SATS student gets an A at GCSE whoopty doo. A child getting level 4 then getting an A I'll be much more impressed at. It's called value added and is a much more worthwhile goal than already bright students who would thrive anywhere getting good grades.

    Removing bright students from normal comprehensives would be a poor move. They raise aspirations for their fellow students, mixing with less able students gives them better soft skills and their intelligence is already catered to in set based classes. Why do they need their own school as well?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    they banned opening new grammar schools not currently existing ones
    So the government has money to open new grammer schools but can't manage to help out the homeless. Priorities all right!!
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yep.
    If you have a streamed school with top sets for the brightest to push them on, what benefits does a grammar school have?
    Just look through the thread. Advantages in general have been listed numerous times.

    Then look at countries above us in secondary education rankings and notice how their cultures all have an emphasis on grammar schools. I think i posted a link earlier. Even if not everyone gets in, the fact that people work so hard to get in evident ends up boosting average test results.

    Lastly, look at the performance of grammar school students compared to top set students in regular schools. Or just regular schools in general.

    (Original post by Dom2375)
    Increasing the class divide?
    Lets also destroy all RG unis for increasing a class divide. How unfair is it that some unis only accept the best candidates!! Then lets abolish UKCAT tests!

    Am i doing it right?

    If you don't like the idea of a competitive environment, don't send your kids there. Also this is getting into SECONDARY SCHOOL. More specifically, year 7. Not Cambridge. I'm guessing all the people talking about tutors have never sat a grammar school entrance exam lol.

    I know not everyone gets in but being naturally intelligent and hard working is enough. If you have supportive parents who help you study, even better! But can we please stop acting like not affording a tutor means all hope is lost lol. They're not giving these kids anything they won't already know how to do. Similar to the UKCAT tests for medical applicants . You can familiarise yourself with them a bit. But revise? Not really. It's not something you can "revise" for.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    Just look through the thread. Advantages in general have been listed numerous times.

    Then look at countries above us in secondary education rankings and notice how their cultures all have an emphasis on grammar schools. I think i posted a link earlier. Even if not everyone gets in, the fact that people work so hard to get in evident ends up boosting average test results.

    Lastly, look at the performance of grammar school students compared to top set students in regular schools. Or just regular schools in general.



    Lets also destroy all RG unis for increasing a class divide. How unfair is it that some unis only accept the best candidates!! Then lets abolish UKCAT tests!

    Am i doing it right?

    If you don't like the idea of a competitive environment, don't send your kids there. Also this is getting into SECONDARY SCHOOL. More specifically, year 7. Not Cambridge. I'm guessing all the people talking about tutors have never sat a grammar school entrance exam lol.

    I know not everyone gets in but being naturally intelligent and hard working is enough. If you have supportive parents who help you study, even better! But can we please stop acting like not affording a tutor means all hope is lost lol. They're not giving these kids anything they won't already know how to do. Similar to the UKCAT tests for medical applicants . You can familiarise yourself with them a bit. But revise? Not really. It's not something you can "revise" for.
    You haven't listed a single advantage that a grammar school has over a streamed school. I achieved 7A* at Gcse and 2a* At A level. That was from a streamed school.
    Please show me some evidence that grammar school students out perform top set students.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    I live in Northern Ireland where there are still grammar schools. I go to a grammar school and I think bringing them back for England would be good. I think it's better for more gifted students tbh
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by niteninja1)
    But why should the target be a pass if everyone is taught to focus on A's they will try harder.

    For instance a friend of mine at a grammar school got all A's except in maths where she got an B. When she found this out she broke down crying as she believed this was a fail in that subject as she was taught to alway aim for A's were as most comprehensive schools tell student aim for that golden C as if an C is an accomplishment.
    You point out yourself - only in grammar schools do people act as though As and A*s are normal grades and Bs or Cs are "fails". But do you really think that if everyone had an equal standard of teaching that the difference in grades would be the same? I highly doubt it.
    I do think people are capable of so much more than they achieve currently (particularly surrounding people passing vs failing GCSEs) and if these students are left behind in stare schools I can't see them getting the help they need... there's no denying that even free grammar schools give huge advantage to parents who can afford expensive 11+ tuition etc. Aiming for higher grades should just be pushed more in state schools. There's no need for more grammars IMO. (Or any at all)
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You haven't listed a single advantage that a grammar school has over a streamed school. I achieved 7A* at Gcse and 2a* At A level. That was from a streamed school.
    Please show me some evidence that grammar school students out perform top set students.
    He was actually saying that competition exists everywhere and because someone gets into something like a Russell Group university and other people don't because of their abilities doesn't mean that those universities should be willing to let everyone in. Or for those universities to be destroyed.

    That's awesome that you did so well by the way, well done!
    As I've stated before in a previous post in this thread that I went to a grammar school and I personally don't believe it matters very much which school you go to, intelligent people will get ahead regardless. The people that I encountered at grammar school all had an inner drive to learn and do well, it wouldn't have mattered where they ended up. People that go to these sorts of schools tend to be self-learners and don't actually rely on others to teach them very much (obviously there's a few exceptions to this).
    This applies to universities too, it doesn't matter where you go, just going off the reputation of a university doesn't get people very far, the individual is what matters.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by catinsomehat)
    He was actually saying that competition exists everywhere and because someone gets into something like a Russell Group university and other people don't because of their abilities doesn't mean that those universities should be willing to let anyone in. Or for those universities to be destroyed.

    That's awesome that you did so well by the way, well done!
    As I've started before in a previous post in this thread that I went to a grammar school and I personally don't believe it matters very much which school you go to, intelligent people will get ahead regardless. The people that I encountered at grammar school all had an inner drive to learn and do well, it wouldn't have mattered where they ended up. People that go to these sorts of schools tend to be self-learners and don't actually rely on others to teach them (obviously there's exceptions to this).
    This applies to universities too, it doesn't matter where you go, just going off the reputation of a university doesn't get people very far, the individual is what matters.
    Difference is that with under 16s education is about, well, teaching people. It shouldn't be so competitively focused at this stage. When you get to further education sure, but 11 year olds are still developing and to "brand" them so early seems quite strange.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by catinsomehat)
    He was actually saying that competition exists everywhere and because someone gets into something like a Russell Group university and other people don't because of their abilities doesn't mean that those universities should be willing to let anyone in. Or for those universities to be destroyed.

    .
    I'd argue that we should be given the same opportunities so much as possible as children. Then when we reach 18 and apply to unis, its acceptable.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    *Then look at countries above us in secondary education rankings and notice how their cultures all have an emphasis on grammar schools. I think i posted a link earlier. Even if not everyone gets in, the fact that people work so hard to get in evident ends up boosting average test results.
    Also notice a myriad of other factors in such countries, such as a culture of respect for learning.

    If you're referring to the below link you posted...

    *http://www.mbctimes.com/english/20-b...-systems-world

    ...then I don't see a reference to grammar schools, selectivity or streaming anywhere?*
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    The short time I've been on this forum, I've noticed very large numbers of people are heavily into the idea of educational meritocracy. A lot of people love the idea of doing well at school and going to the best universities etc.

    Given this, how can they not be at least ambivalent to the grammar school system? As long as it's implemented wholesale (i.e. like it was more or less in the olden days) where's the problem? You do well on the 11+ and you go to a school which is going to get you through your A-levels and not worry too much about having to support anyone not pointed toward university. Surely this is the TSR dream?

    If you don't want grammar schools, because they're academically elitist - then surely you're against elite universities too?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dynamic_Vicz)
    So the government has money to open new grammer schools but can't manage to help out the homeless. Priorities all right!!
    It's wrong to prioritise education over the homeless? I'd say it's pretty fifty fifty


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    The short time I've been on this forum, I've noticed very large numbers of people are heavily into the idea of educational meritocracy. A lot of people love the idea of doing well at school and going to the best universities etc.

    Given this, how can they not be at least ambivalent to the grammar school system? As long as it's implemented wholesale (i.e. like it was more or less in the olden days) where's the problem? You do well on the 11+ and you go to a school which is going to get you through your A-levels and not worry too much about having to support anyone not pointed toward university. Surely this is the TSR dream?

    If you don't want grammar schools, because they're academically elitist - then surely you're against elite universities too?
    Because children can improve after 11, and what you are trying to do is box them in, for the rest of their (educational) careers!>!
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by john2054)
    Because children can improve after 11, and what you are trying to do is box them in, for the rest of their (educational) careers!>!
    That's not really true, lots of people from comprehensive schools go to good universities. I'm not sure what you're getting at there.
    Do you think grammar schools have some sort of magical teaching ability or something? Because they don't, they have normal teachers.
    The people there are just smart and self-learners.

    I'm sure you've encountered people like that at university too if you're already at university.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by john2054)
    Because children can improve after 11, and what you are trying to do is box them in, for the rest of their (educational) careers!>!
    If the grammar schools came back wholesale, it wouldn't really make a difference, although it would depend on what if anything happened to A-levels and GCSEs.

    The point isn't to skim off the top 15-20% of pupils and get them to ace their A-levels at grammar schools. The point is to skim off the top 30-40% or whatever to get them to university, and aim comprehensives at teaching GCSEs and something else (be it A-level or x) to give the remainder the best chance at doing well - if that means university, college or work ultimately. If you develop late - well that sucks for you, but everyone gets selected at some point or another.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    What is a grammar school?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.