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    (Original post by tammie123)
    what do you mean I don't understand your point
    You are saying nudity laws are to protect children but in other cultures women walk round topless which would be indecent exposure here, so how can you judge what people in other places find distressing or not without being a part of French culture?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    The mayor says that as these outfits are recommended by ISIS, we should ban them.

    He hasn't said that burkini wearers were terrorists, but that they -- unconsciously or not -- participate in their propaganda. I agree with him.
    When did ISIS recommend wearing burkinis? To them a woman shouldn't be swimming on the beach and her face shouldn't be uncovered. What nonsense.
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    I certainly wouldn't ban burkas or burkinies outright as I don't think the state should have that kind of power.

    I do think that, whenever facial recognition is necessary (such as at a bank or airport) then those wearing a motorcycle helmet & those wearing a burka should be treated the same however.
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    As long as I can see the face of someone I am talking to, I don't really have a problem with it, though I understand why people are against the burkini (which is a stupid name in itself)
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    Misogynism? I don't think so. Guys just don't like that kinda swimsuit. It's because....they can see no curves, no boobs or no butt. The swimsuits below are what they expect to see on the beach.

    Name:  1471143477579.jpg
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    I'm more than happy and supportive for women to cover themselves as they see fit, so I wouldn't support a ban...although I have to admit I'd feel some sympathy for it.


    I'm not happy about a religion/culture that forces it upon women because of sexist misogynistic reasons.

    We also need to accept that for every strong Muslim women who's doing it entirely of her own free will, there are countless numbers of Muslim women who are doing it because of their chauvinistic men-folk who will disown them at best and killthem at worst, and everything in between for not covering up and being ashamed of their own gender and sex.


    The irony here is that I'm not a feminist, male-ally of feminism, whatever.

    I just prefer equality, and we have to stop pretending that Islam isn't broadly an enemy of gender equality.

    Brahmin of Booty's picture of a wet-suit illustrates that point perfectly.
    It's not being covered that is the issue, it's the reasoning behind it.

    It's whether it's free will or a cultural peer pressure that demands women's subservience to men. It's hyper-conservatism.

    Everyone should be free to dress how they wish unless it's in a public secular role, but I can't blame people for feeling like a ban is a good idea, because we all know that for the vast majority that attire isn't a free choice, but a shroud of shame and servitude/enslavement.

    I feel sorry for the Muslim women who are entirely freely making the decision to dress that way, but they know fine there's valid concerns about it.
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    "Choosing to conflate a cultural and religiously inspired mode of attire – which women choose to wear to feel safe from the sexual gaze of society while partaking in a very ordinary pasttime – with a terrorist group is a convenient ‘othering’ of fellow citizens in times of national crisis"

    The problem is the burkha / burkini encourages the notion that women are responsible and fair game if they don't cover their bodies provoking the sexual desires of lustful men. Its *******s and completely the wrong way round.. its not on women to cover themselves up, its on men to learn how to control themselves better than a male dog around a ***** in heat.

    It gets murkier because there are many young western female muslims who are proud of their parents culture and identity and enjoy wearing the religious and cultural atire without understanding the sinister reasons behind it.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You are saying nudity laws are to protect children but in other cultures women walk round topless which would be indecent exposure here, so how can you judge what people in other places find distressing or not without being a part of French culture?
    Oh I agree, I think the next step for the french would be to ban fashion choices that people find 'distressing' :mmm:
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You are saying nudity laws are to protect children but in other cultures women walk round topless which would be indecent exposure here, so how can you judge what people in other places find distressing or not without being a part of French culture?
    That's not strictly true, there isn't actually a law that prevents a woman from walking around topless.


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    I agree with this ban, how dare women try to cover up when men don't want to see that! They want to see our boobs and arse and we all know that women should base their life decisions on what men want. Of course how could we be so stupid as to think that we have any say in our own lives and how we dress! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    I agree with this ban, how dare women try to cover up when men don't want to see that! They want to see our boobs and arse and we all know that women should base their life decisions on what men want. Of course how could we be so stupid as to think that we have any say in our own lives and how we dress! :rolleyes:
    Don't make out as though covering your body is banned.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Don't make out as though covering your body is banned.


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    Yes you're right actually it's not banned, it's only banned when its related to Islam
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    It's basically victim blaming. There will be Muslim women who will now not be able to go to the beach. How is this liberating them?

    If you care about oppressed Muslim women stop punishing them.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    Yes you're right actually it's not banned, it's only banned when its related to Islam
    Yes. I'm not trying to justify this, it's blatantly discriminatory toward Muslims. My problem is how this has seemingly been hijacked by feminists who are now trying to say it's sexism


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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's basically victim blaming. There will be Muslim women who will now not be able to go to the beach. How is this liberating them?

    If you care about oppressed Muslim women stop punishing them.
    Actually, no burkini has ever been seen on Cannes beach, so I think the number of "Muslim women" impacted will remain fairly limited.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Well, I don't think they are being disingenous at all when it comes to the burqa, niqab, or "burqini". The fact that you think that makes me assume that you have difficulty thinking beyond our cultural framework.

    I find the wearing of these Islamic garbs far more offensive than someone being nude. As a human being myself, I don't find the human body offensive, but I am rather offended by people who think it is, and clothes like the burqini exist in part to cover the body because of the idea that it is offensive. It also tells me that the woman wearing it has been frightened by her religion into wearing it, as it is clearly not particularly practical compared to a standard swimsuit. I dislike the idea that an ideology frightens women into covering their body, and thinking of their body as offensive, by threatening them with eternal damnation. That's pretty messed up. Some women may feel pressured to wear certain things by our culture, but it's certainly rare for them to wear things out of fear of an eternity of torture. So yes, there are two reasons I'm offended by the burkini: it suggests that the human body is offensive or shameful, and it is reeks of subjugation.

    Next I'd like to take you up on that "sexualisation" comment. Maybe if we saw more people naked, we would actually become more used to the body and think of it more than merely an explicit sex object. We always will be physically attracted to other people, and that's a good thing. It's not good though when you get to the point where a flash of flesh is enough to drive men crazy with sexual excitement, and unfortunately in countries where women cover themselves from head to toe this is exactly what can happen, thus why we have had young, repressed men from Islamic countries going crazy and assaulting women in Germany and Sweden. To those men, any display of flesh means "screw me". Not a great situation.

    Moreover, is there another item of clothing that reduces a woman's body to merely a sex toy more than the burqa? Think of it this way: the burqa basically exists to hide the body to stop men from getting exicited by seeing it.

    Here are two really common metaphors that I always see Muslims use in defense of veiling.

    Firstly: "If you leave a sweet unwrapped, why should you be surprised when flies collect on it?"

    This is thinking of the female body as a consumable commodity.

    Secondly: "The burqa isn't sexist. If you have a precious jewel, do you go around flashing it to everyone, or do you keep it safe, away from prying eyes? This is how we view our women"

    This is reducing women to a purchasable object which you keep simply to look at.

    The burqa or burqini basically says that a woman's body is an explicit, sordid, sexual object that should be hidden, rather like a dirty magazing being put on the top shelf. Additionally, there is no society that is more utterly obsessed with sex than societies such as Saudi Arabia's. Sure, they are obsessed with repressing it, but they are obsessed none the less, and it probably shapes their society more than anything else.
    Actually, and I say this as a Muslim myself, those two analogies were made up by a Muslim man who was trying to explain the concept of female modesty from his *male* perspective. We are not consumable commodities, nor should we be spoken over. We have brains, and we have rights.
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    Of course it's not. France isn't an Islamic country so Muslims must follow French customs instead of Islamic ones when in France. If I went to Saudi I wouldn't walk about in a bikini because the locals would get upset, the same thing applies here. Being Muslim doesn't make them exempt from common decency.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Being Muslim doesn't make them exempt from common decency.
    Apparently it does.
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    (Original post by Brahmin of Booty)
    It is. Women of all faiths should have the freedom to choose how they dress.


    We can't claim to have a monopoly on freedom if that freedom is not extended to Muslims.
    But then again many Muslim women don't have the choice. They HAVE to cover up.

    If my mum or sister went to Dubai, they'd have to too.

    Secular countries like France aren't going to make exceptions for Muslims either.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    When did ISIS recommend wearing burkinis? To them a woman shouldn't be swimming on the beach and her face shouldn't be uncovered. What nonsense.
    Exactly. Islamic State probably want a ban on the burqini because it allows husbands to keep their wives and daughters off the beaches, rather than looking at hot Western men in swimming shorts and seeing how much fun Western women have.
 
 
 
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