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French police force woman to take off clothes watch

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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    The burkini is quite separate from the burqa. I think the burkini is rather misnamed; it should be called a hijabini. The burqa isn't really worn by women in the UK, however the niqab, which is fairly similar is worn by quite a fair number of women.
    That's right, I confused burka and niqab, because they work the same, and used this to that pseudo burqini because of my tendency to ignore minor facts in not strict problems.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)

    I don't know where I stand on the issue of the niqab, but there are definitely strong cases to be made in regards to public security. I also think there is a case to make in regards to pregnant women wearing the niqab. Children born to women who wear the niqab are at far greater risk of suffering from rickets. The niqab in this respect could be treated like alcohol which also can cause harm to the baby.
    I bet the radicals will ignore this fact, but insist on "prooving" that Quran is scientifically accurate, while it's not.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)

    However, I don't agree with this health tax. People with darker skin are at a higher risk of having vitamin D deficiency in the UK. But it wouldn't be logical to implement a special health tax on such demographics for this reason.
    Not exactly. A skin colour is your genetic quality, the same as level of IQ (to some extent) or vulnerability to cancer or other ilnesses. Society may pay for your cancer treatment, because you may have other qualities vital to it's existence. In the same time, some people are smoking though they come from families wich are very resistant to cancer, but they have to pay high cigarrete taxes anyway. Since no public health insurance in the world is rich enough to pay for best known treatments, it would ok. to require some special health tax from people who insist on damaging their bodies.
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    A bit extreme but at the end of the day she knew the law
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    (picture showing woman in Iran confronted by police for dressing 'too revealing' )
    And this ladies and gents is exactly why humans are morons.

    This ban is not "we don't want to see more skin on women". This ban is about banning the symbol of oppression that it represents. The symbol of fundamentalist Islam as many perceive it to be, and in light of recent events one that upsets some French.

    I have seen so many people on social media cry about how "look they tell women to cover up and they want less clothes". That has nothing to do with the issue and shows people are just led by their emotions.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    How is wearing your own cultural clothing in ANY WAY disrespecting French laws
    If they're banning your cultural clothing and you're wearing your cultural clothing then you are thus disrespecting the laws by breaking them.
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    (Original post by yupitsme)
    This is clearly discrimination why isn't a nuns outfit banned of a Sikhs turban, shame on you for spreading hate, how is a woman wearing a burkini affecting anyone!
    - "Mommy, why is that woman wearing that creepy outfit"
    - "Well sweetie, because she follows an ideology that taught her a woman has no worth and must hide so that men don't feel compelled to rape her".
    - ":cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:"
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    And this ladies and gents is exactly why humans are morons.

    This ban is not "we don't want to see more skin on women". This ban is about banning the symbol of oppression that it represents. The symbol of fundamentalist Islam as many perceive it to be, and in light of recent events one that upsets some French.

    I have seen so many people on social media cry about how "look they tell women to cover up and they want less clothes". That has nothing to do with the issue and shows people are just led by their emotions.
    She's wearing it because she doesn't want other men perving on her figure, skin or hair...whats wrong with that?
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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    She's wearing it because she doesn't want other men perving on her figure, skin or hair...whats wrong with that?
    That is a whole different debate.

    The debate here is not about "we want to see more skin on women" but "we think this is a symbol that deserves banning and so we did ban it".

    And well to answer your question though, I would reply with exactly the same post I just wrote above*. Because in that hyperbolic example, all the relevant issues are raised. But let me just ask you this. Is it a coincidence that in Muslim cultures women are scared of pervy men proportionately much more than women in western cultures?

    *Edits sry i thought you quoted that one for a moment.
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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    She's wearing it because she doesn't want other men perving on her figure, skin or hair...whats wrong with that?
    Why are you assuming men are going to perv on her? I'm pretty sure guys have self control in France.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I'm pretty sure guys have self control in France.
    I'm pretty sure French guys perv, the women certainly like to crotch watch.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    I'm pretty sure French guys perv, the women certainly like to crotch watch.
    You're stating an opinion of yours. You sure all French guys perv?
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    You're stating an opinion of yours.
    Yep.

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    You sure all French guys perv?
    No, no doubt some are blind.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Why are you assuming men are going to perv on her? I'm pretty sure guys have self control in France.
    Because that's in a man's nature. If a woman wants to hide her percieved beauty for whatever reason then she should be allowed to. And you're talking about self-control as if the topic is rape - which it isn't.
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    Demonstration against burkini ban outside French embassy in London
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    Demonstration against burkini ban outside French embassy in London

    I see 9 people.

    Meanwhile, an official poll (IFOP/Figaro), has just been released. 64% of the French are against the burkini on the beach, 30% are indifferent, 6% agree with it (margin of error of 3%).

    It's interesting to see that the burkini is rejected by people from every political background:
    Far left: 62% against, 33% indifferent, 5% agree
    Left: 52% against, 41% indifferent, 7% agree
    Right: 76% against, 21% indifferent, 3% agree
    Far right: 86% against, 10% indifferent, 4% agree

    http://www.ifop.com/media/poll/3460-1-study_file.pdf

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    (Original post by Josb)
    I see 9 people.

    Meanwhile, an official poll (IFOP/Figaro), has just been released. 64% of the French are against the burkini on the beach, 30% are indifferent, 6% agree with it (margin of error of 3%).

    It's interesting to see that the burkini is rejected by people from every political background:
    Far left: 62% against, 33% indifferent, 5% agree
    Left: 52% against, 41% indifferent, 7% agree
    Right: 76% against, 21% indifferent, 3% agree
    Far right: 86% against, 10% indifferent, 4% agree

    http://www.ifop.com/media/poll/3460-1-study_file.pdf

    Good to know :yy:
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    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    Unlimited expression of one's religious beliefs could lead to FGM etc, which is what I had in mind.
    FGM causes objective harm and should be outlawed on that basis.

    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    Tbh if the adhan was allowed that would just cause more anger and hatred and those worst affected would be muslims themselves so I'm not sure that's a good idea even from a muslim pov.
    This is stupid, no religious group should be forced to suppress a harmless part of their worship to prevent themselves becoming victims.

    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    that distinction has no logical basis and isn't upheld in our laws
    It has logical basis and would be very easy to determine, British jurisprudence doesn't make the distinction, but they do to a much greater extent stateside certainly.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    She was a few meters away from the place where a follower of the same religion as her killed 86 people last month. Given the context, I think that we could expect a low profile on the issue for at least a few months. It would show that Muslims are also capable of making efforts.
    I just don't see how pulling up random Muslim women at the beach will make France any safer. How will making Muslim women wear revealing swimwear aid the fight against terrorism?


    (Original post by Josb)
    Only with Muslims. The millions of Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Chinese, Jews, or Black Africans (from Christian countries) that have come to France over the last century have had no assimilation problem.
    I agree, but France never bothered to address the integration problems among Muslim communities. Instead the population was allowed to grow to the point where it now has one of largest Muslim populations in Europe. I'm sure that the people in power at various points in history must have noticed things were not working among Muslim communities. Seems like they turned a blind eye.
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    I just don't see how pulling up random Muslim women at the beach will make France any safer. How will making Muslim women wear revealing swimwear aid the fight against terrorism?
    It's not about making it safer, despite what the mayors said - they used this argument because they are allowed to take pretty much any decision in the name of public safety. It's about stopping the visual conquest of radical Islam.

    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    I agree, but France never bothered to address the integration problems among Muslim communities. Instead the population was allowed to grow to the point where it now has one of largest Muslim populations in Europe. I'm sure that the people in power at various points in history must have noticed things were not working among Muslim communities. Seems like they turned a blind eye.
    Political correctness has been very strong in France, but remember the situation here will happen in the UK in a decade.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    It's not about making it safer, despite what the mayors said - they used this argument because they are allowed to take pretty much any decision in the name of public safety.
    That doesn't worry you?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    France is aggressively secular, and has been for a long time. With Islamic terrorism, they are understandably becoming more aggressive in doubling down on Islamic influences that clash with Western values.
    Trying to promote French values and stop Muslims becoming extremists by oppressing them. Nice.
 
 
 
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