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is it only me or has religion ruined the world?. watch

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    (Original post by Reue)
    And I disagree, thinking it was a primary cause of lot of the initial disagreements which escalated.

    Matters not though, unfortunately we are stuck with the cancer of religion it seems
    That's really no different to saying "we are stuck with the cancer of men/politicians" - simplistic to the point of absurdity.
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    (Original post by saran23)
    Sure. But we must understand that we have been evolutionarily designed to be violent creatures. We once were hunter-gatherers and violence is in our DNA. Religion helped us soothe this violence we unfortunately inherited. It helped many to lead controlled lives. Without religion, this world would have seen wars of greater atrocities compared to our recent violent history.
    Whilst I don't believe that religion plays a big part in starting wars, I definitely don't believe it stops them. Can you name a single instance in the history of humanity in which war or atrocity has been mitigated as a result of religious belief?
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    That's really no different to saying "we are stuck with the cancer of men/politicians" - simplistic to the point of absurdity.
    Only if you believe having politicians is bad, which I don't, so it is not comparable to me.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Whilst I don't believe that religion plays a big part in starting wars, I definitely don't believe it stops them. Can you name a single instance in the history of humanity in which war or atrocity has been mitigated as a result of religious belief?
    "43 Pontiffs brought peace and settled disputes between warring factions. Pope Celestine II (1143-1144) successfully attempted and stopped the war between Scotland and England. Pope Martin IV (1281-1285) strove to unite in the bonds of charity the kings and lords of the time. Pope Innocent VIII (1484-1492) assiduously attempted at bringing peace between Catholic states and did his utmost to repress the slave traffic, also assisting Columbus in his undertakings. Pope Clement VIII (1592-1605) succeeded in pacifying France and Spain and Pope Clement IX (1667-1669) acted as intermediary at the Peace of Aquisgrana for a peace pact between France, Spain, England and Holland. This treaty came to be known as the Clementine Peace."
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    (Original post by saran23)
    "43 Pontiffs brought peace and settled disputes between warring factions. Pope Celestine II (1143-1144) successfully attempted and stopped the war between Scotland and England. Pope Martin IV (1281-1285) strove to unite in the bonds of charity the kings and lords of the time. Pope Innocent VIII (1484-1492) assiduously attempted at bringing peace between Catholic states and did his utmost to repress the slave traffic, also assisting Columbus in his undertakings. Pope Clement VIII (1592-1605) succeeded in pacifying France and Spain and Pope Clement IX (1667-1669) acted as intermediary at the Peace of Aquisgrana for a peace pact between France, Spain, England and Holland. This treaty came to be known as the Clementine Peace."
    These are cases where a Pope has acted as a mediator, and is recognised because he's an important person. His religion is peripheral - and I cannot believe played any part in any process of peace.

    Just as Reue wants to blame WW1 on religion, this makes no sense. Events which have no basis in spirituality don't become so just because some of the actors had a particular faith.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    These are cases where a Pope has acted as a mediator, and is recognised because he's an important person. His religion is peripheral - and I cannot believe played any part in any process of peace.

    Just as Reue wants to blame WW1 on religion, this makes no sense. Events which have no basis in spirituality don't become so just because some of the actors had a particular faith.
    The sole existence of a pope is only through the existence of Christianity as a religion. His words would not have been listened to if he and the people in those did not believe in Christianity. A mediator of peace is better than doing nothing and to let people go to war.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-wars-conflict
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    (Original post by saran23)
    The sole existence of a pope is only through the existence of Christianity as a religion. His words would not have been listened to if he and the people in those did not believe in Christianity. A mediator of peace is better than doing nothing and to let people go to war.
    Popes have often incited to go to war. (Hint: the Crusades).

    (Original post by saran23)
    Pope Clement VIII (1592-1605) succeeded in pacifying France and Spain and Pope Clement IX (1667-1669) acted as intermediary at the Peace of Aquisgrana for a peace pact between France, Spain, England and Holland. This treaty came to be known as the Clementine Peace."
    The Clementine Peace was an attempt to unify Christianity to better fight the Turks. You don't want to use this example.
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    Had anyone mentioned the role of the Catholic Church in the aids crisis of last century which has taken tens of millions of lives?
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    (Original post by z33)
    and... ? you said "religion ruined the world" not "monotheism ruined the world"
    besides idk if it's just me but idg why Islam gets so much hate
    it gave women rights over 1000 years before the women's rights movement.
    http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/...ave_rights.php
    It gave the woman the right to become a legal party in a marriage contract, gave her rights in marriage, inheritance and divorce. The right to work and keep her income for herself. It prohibited female infanticide as well.

    it gave animals rights
    "The rights of livestock and animals upon man: these are that he spend on them the provision that their kinds require, even if they have aged or sickened such that no benefit comes from them; that he not burden them beyond what they can bear; that he not put them together with anything by which they would be injured, whether of their own kind or other species, and whether by breaking their bones or butting or wounding; that he slaughters them with kindness when he slaughters them, and neither flay their skins nor break their bones until their bodies have become cold and their lives have passed away; that he not slaughter their young within their sight, but that he isolate them; that he makes comfortable their resting places and watering places; that he puts their males and females together during their mating seasons; that he not discard those which he takes as game; and neither shoots them with anything that breaks their bones nor brings about their destruction by any means that renders their meat unlawful to eat. "
    again over 1000 years before the protection of animals acts came out

    It gave orphans and widows rights and basically gave a voice to the voiceless, just because GoatF**kers International are dropping bombs on everyone (including Muslims) in the name of the religion doesn't make the religion bad. Just because *****y sexist disgusting culture exists in predominantly Muslim countries doesn't mean Islam is to blame.

    Das jus mahpinion tnx 4 reddin xoxoxo <333
    Pretty much this.

    Lol, I guess they seem to have forgotten that girls were burried alive prior to Islam and Islam stopped that. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Saba XD)
    Pretty much this.

    Lol, I guess they seem to have forgotten that girls were burried alive prior to Islam and Islam stopped that. :rolleyes:
    Indeed, Muslims used stones instead of pyres.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Popes have often incited to go to war. (Hint: the Crusades).



    The Clementine Peace was an attempt to unify Christianity to better fight the Turks. You don't want to use this example.
    Hmm, you do make a valid point. But tell me, how would the world be without religion? We humans will use any ideology to establish dominance over one another. We find the flaws and manipulate it our own liking. We have done this with all political ideologies. The presence of religion did not make the world a worse place, in an alternate dimension where there is no religion we would have simply exploited another ideology.
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    (Original post by Onde)
    Studies have shown that as the world has become secular, the number of people dying in wars per capita has significantly decreased:

    https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace-long-run
    The possessions of nuclear weapons by superpowers and the existence of international bodies such as NATO and the UN makes it less likely for an outbreak of war to occur. Such international bodies did not really exist before the 20th century. There are many reasons to explain why the number of people dying from wars is falling. Stating that secularism was a significant reason can be easily dismissed based on the evidence you have provided.
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    (Original post by saran23)
    Hmm, you do make a valid point. But tell me, how would the world be without religion? We humans will use any ideology to establish dominance over one another. We find the flaws and manipulate it our own liking. We have done this with all political ideologies. The presence of religion did not make the world a worse place, in an alternate dimension where there is no religion we would have simply exploited another ideology.
    I think that not all religions are the same, some are just spiritual whilst others are also a code of conduct. It is certain that the three religions of the Book have hindered progress.

    There would be still wars, of course, but people would be able to live their life without being afraid of sinning.
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    Sigh, its people like you that cause racial hatred....
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    Religion has always existed since the beginning, think way back to the Romans or the Greeks. Any belief in God comes with rules, regulations, bans and has resulted in so many wars. Even today we go to war due to religion, ISIS are bad but the Crusades sent by the Pope weren't any better. Imagine you visited a planet where the inhabitants have been killing each other for centuries, for the Gods they made?
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    (Original post by Onde)
    I'm not convinced by the nuclear weapons example. Most of the world's nations do not have nuclear weapons. Also, having nuclear weapons (or an ally with nuclear weapons) has not prevented numerous wars, such as the Korean war, the Yom Kippur war, the Iran–Iraq war, the Falklands, the Kosovo war, Russia's incusions into Georgia and the Ukraine, for example. Nuclear weapons aren't a very strong demotivator in such conflicts.
    You are right to an extent, but don't you see that these wars happened in a more secular society. The examples of war outbreaks that you have listed contain very little to no religious motives for them to go to war. Religion cannot be identified as a culprit here of causing war. I still believe that the international community have prevented instances of war.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I think that not all religions are the same, some are just spiritual whilst others are also a code of conduct. It is certain that the three religions of the Book have hindered progress.

    There would be still wars, of course, but people would be able to live their life without being afraid of sinning.
    I do agree, but relative to the question that is not sufficient to suggest it made the world a worse place. Both religious and secular contents produced by humanity were necessary for us to live in the democracy as we know it. It is also from religion we learned to value ones liberty and choice. Religion has been a part of society and now people are not obliged to believe in God. It is their own choice (hypothetically of course as we are not a perfect democracy yet).
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So, you think those regions were better off ruled as occupied territories of an expansionist empire? That's very colonial of you.
    Do you think that India and much of Africa would also be better off under British rule as part of the Empire?
    No, I just think they'd be better off if the Western Powers split them up into countries using some form of logic or reason, instead of ending up with messes like the Kurds not getting a country.
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    (Original post by ToussJ)
    No, I just think they'd be better off if the Western Powers split them up into countries using some form of logic or reason, instead of ending up with messes like the Kurds not getting a country.
    Whatever partitions are devised, there will always be somebody with an axe to grind.
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    No I think Hollywood and a lot of American-Jewish culture has ruined the world to the point where there is almost a total disregard for morality or depth of thought and instead imposed this western corporate/shopping mall culture universally. Rather than demonising Islam (which actually tackles head on all the vices in society) why can't we demonise virtually all the 21st century internet/corporate iconography, including vacuous sluts like the Kardashians, Grande, Swift, Adele, Rihanna, Bieber and tossers like Zuckerberg, Obama, the Hollywood crowd, CNN, Bloomberg, The City, Forbes, The BBC - all of them wrecking local cultures and traditional morality and universally replacing it with 'Tech', social media memes, instant electronic gratification, transgenderism, feminism, single motherhood....
 
 
 
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