Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

What is with the fixation on 'right to live and work' in the EU Watch

Announcements
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    OK, so are you implying a problem doesn't need a solution?

    The things you listed are not solutions, as you know it does not pre-examine the eligibility of the applicant.

    If they fail the requirement, what are you going to do, ask them to move back?

    And how do you not pay social benefits to citizens? We are a welfare state.
    No I am implying a solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem.

    God I am gonna stop talking to you, you don't think about anything you read.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    No I am implying a solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem.

    God I am gonna stop talking to you, you don't think about anything you read.
    Are you even thinking about what you type?

    so·lu·tion - a means of solving a problem or dealing with a difficult situation.

    I am all up for debate as this is a debating forum, but please at least use logic.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Are you even thinking about what you type?

    so·lu·tion - a means of solving a problem or dealing with a difficult situation.

    I am all up for debate as this is a debating forum, but please at least use logic.
    or dealing with a difficult situation.
    Which is what this is.

    I mean you couldn't make this up. You destroy yourself with the very same argument you are making. It's comedy gold.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    or dealing with a difficult situation.
    Which is what this is.

    I mean you couldn't make this up. You destroy yourself with the very same argument you are making. It's comedy gold.
    So are you admitting that free movement is a difficult situation that requires a solution?

    No actually, you really are destroying your very own argument. You just said a solution doesn't need to be a solution, and you talk about logic.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    So are you admitting that free movement is a difficult situation that requires a solution?

    No actually, you really are destroying your very own argument. You just said a solution doesn't need to be a solution, and you talk about logic.
    No I said a solution doesn't need to be for a problem...you have resorted to straight up lying now. Sad.

    And the difficult situation is that many of you are opposed to it. And the solution is to appease them without totally destroying not only the benefits of it, but the idea it represents.

    I am like a broken record now. Talking to a brick wall.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    or dealing with a difficult situation.
    Which is what this is.

    I mean you couldn't make this up. You destroy yourself with the very same argument you are making. It's comedy gold.
    More 'comedy gold' for you.

    solution:

    : something that is used or done to deal with and end a problem
    : something that solves a problem
    : the act of solving something
    : a correct answer to a problem, puzzle, etc.

    Have you really ran out of argument that you have to start saying that 'a solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem'?

    You talked about there isn't just 1 solution, and I asked you what is yours. Then you say solution doesn't need to be a solution. So what are you really trying to say, or do you actually have any solution at all?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    More 'comedy gold' for you.

    solution:

    : something that is used or done to deal with and end a problem
    : something that solves a problem
    : the act of solving something
    : a correct answer to a problem, puzzle, etc.

    Have you really ran out of argument that you have to start saying that 'a solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem'?

    You talked about there isn't just 1 solution, and I asked you what is yours. Then you say solution doesn't need to be a solution. So what are you really trying to say, or do you actually have any solution at all?
    Read my posts.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    No I said a solution doesn't need to be for a problem...you have resorted to straight up lying now. Sad.

    And the difficult situation is that many of you are opposed to it. And the solution is to appease them without totally destroying not only the benefits of it, but the idea it represents.

    I am like a broken record now. Talking to a brick wall.
    So what is a solution for? List them out.

    Appeasing what? What is there to appease? The quota system is to ensure that we are capable of maintaining the capacity to accept more immigration by having a system to plan our resources and to ensure sustainable immigration, and that we in return benefit from skilled labour. It is very simple. You are saying as if we are declaring war on immigrants.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    So what is a solution for? List them out.

    Appeasing what? What is there to appease? The quota system is to ensure that we are capable of maintaining the capacity to accept more immigration by having a system to plan our resources and to ensure sustainable immigration, and that we in return benefit from skilled labour. It is very simple. You are saying as if we are declaring war on immigrants.
    I already have.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    I already have.
    Quote them, what is a solution for?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Quote them, what is a solution for?
    Read above.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Read above.
    Okay, so when I ask you to tell me what is a solution for, you say you have already mentioned it.

    And when I ask you to quote them, you said read above.

    And you talk about logic. If you are so strong on your argument you wouldn't be dodging the question.

    You simply can't say it because you haven't said what it is for, you know exactly the definition of a solution.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Okay, so when I ask you to tell me what is a solution for, you say you have already mentioned it.

    And when I ask you to quote them, you said read above.

    And you talk about logic. If you are so strong on your argument you wouldn't be dodging the question.

    You simply can't say it because you haven't said what it is for, you know exactly the definition of a solution.
    1. The only thing I am dodging is repeating myself to you. I am not your English teach, if you have reading comprehension issues, sort them out yourself.
    2. The funny thing is that you are making this huge issue out of my use of a single word. Do you want to know the reason I used the word solution? Because to you (free) immigration is a problem and to you the only solution is a quota ("that is why...", not this solution is bad because and that one doesn't work since, but a quota ...nothing like that, just "quota"). That is why I pointed out that generalization. It has nothing to do with whether or not I view something as a problem or not. This emoji has never been more appropriate: :facepalm:

    Anyway, I am done with someone who is either incapable to see beyond their own bias ,or incapable intellectually, to hold a discussion. Enjoy your Brexit.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    1. The only thing I am dodging is repeating myself to you. I am not your English teach, if you have reading comprehension issues, sort them out yourself.
    2. The funny thing is that you are making this huge issue out of my use of a single word. Do you want to know the reason I used the word solution? Because to you (free) immigration is a problem and to you the only solution is a quota ("that is why...", not this solution is bad because and that one doesn't work since, but a quota ...nothing like that, just "quota". That is why I pointed out that generalization. It has nothing to do with whether or not I view something as a problem or not. This emoji has never been more appropriate: :facepalm:

    Anyway, I am done with someone who is either incapable to see beyond their own bias ,or incapable intellectually, to hold a discussion. Enjoy your Brexit.
    You are again dodging a very simple question. You just accuse me of having 'issues', typical of someone who can't win an argument.

    You said it yourself, 'a solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem.'.

    You then rejected all the mainstream definition of a solution - a plan to solve a problem.

    You suggested it applies to a plan to solve a difficult situation. Even if it is applied to a 'difficult situation', we are talking about a solution to the current flaws in the system. This means you are saying that the current system is a difficult situation that requires a solution.

    So I asked you, what is your solution that fixes the problem. You then gave me suggestions which does not solve it, as one is a measure that only applies after they have lived/work in the UK for a significant time. So if they fail, are we going to kick them out? The other you said we can refuse to pay them state benefits, however many immigrants are UK citizens. So are you saying we should deny them of their citizenship's rights, benefits and entitlements?

    So I ask you again, what is your real solution to the current lack of control in the immigration system, how do you suggest we control it?

    Or are you saying that the system is perfectly fine, and I'll go back to the square one and explain to you again the principle of Murphy's Law and the simple logic of having a system in which we can plan our public resources proactively?
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    I think your view already has the assumption that the immigrants are not welcomed. In fact I actually welcome their contributions as a whole, however we must prevent the minority who comes to the UK for state benefits without intending to contribute. This is why a quota system is fair for both sides. For us, it prevents abuse of immigration, and for them it maintains the quality of the UK's public services and ensure that we have the capacity to accommodate more well-meaning applicants.

    It is also reasonable that the UK wants to have control over its own policies, rather than relying on someone else to decide.

    Therefore it is important that we have an effective system to create an environment where people who wants to work in the UK, can do so and will not be forced to depend on benefits which is harmful to both the UK and to themselves.

    It has nothing to do with blaming the migrants on anything. It is more to do with creating a sustainable system for which both sides can benefit from.
    They are only welcomed if you need them, not if they want a better life. There is a difference.

    As I said before, controlling migration so they only come if you want them won't suddenly make your life better. The economic system needs to be confronted no matter what happens to immigration.

    Sustainable system? lol this implies that you don't really care about the migrants.
    As I said, the migrants will have to revolt in their respective countries and bring about change there.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CherishFreedom)

    You suggested it applies to a plan to solve a difficult situation.

    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Are you even thinking about what you type?

    so·lu·tion - a means of solving a problem or dealing with a difficult situation.

    I am all up for debate as this is a debating forum, but please at least use logic.
    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    And why do those countries have low standard of living? Could it be something to do with the choices made by those people who are living there?
    Made by the government perhaps. As I said, people will have to revolt and change the government. Parties will arise which will reject the dominant economic ideology in some way.

    Currently, this does not happen because they can just move here and earn 5 times as much as they would in the home country.

    (Original post by Observatory)
    Exactly. I don't want political instability in my country.

    I think you are also overestimating what proportion of the world lives in a well governed country. Swamping the few well-governed countries with the rest of the world won't dilute the rest of the world's dysfunction. It will make the entire world badly governed as people with broken ideas and lifestyles take over the small outposts of sanity.
    It won't end with the control of migrants.

    What does badly governed mean?

    So you want these countries to develop more right? Good. Tell the Western countries to share technology and allow the advancement of their economies instead of giving them freedom of movement
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    A lot of maturity from someone who says 'a solution doesn't need to be a solution for a problem', but then again I didn't expect much from you.

    Also isn't it interesting how you are diverting all the attention from the argument, while I'm asking you to back up your points. Just shows how strong your argument is.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The European single market is not just any kind of trade agreement, its an economical and political union with rules and laws that memeber states are expected to follow. Its stricter than a regular trade agreement, there is monopoly power and many trade barriers.

    But what you failed to grasp from the article is that The visegard four wanted to veto any proposals which would benefit Britain but put their rights second, given as Britain is no longer a member of the EU why should their interests come first to the detriment of others who play by the rules?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by saayagain)
    They are only welcomed if you need them, not if they want a better life. There is a difference.

    As I said before, controlling migration so they only come if you want them won't suddenly make your life better. The economic system needs to be confronted no matter what happens to immigration.

    Sustainable system? lol this implies that you don't really care about the migrants.
    As I said, the migrants will have to revolt in their respective countries and bring about change there.
    You know, it's a fair deal that we offer citizenship to those who we feel can in return offer us their skill. They apply for citizenship because obviously they feel like they can have a better life in the UK. It is isn't just one sided, the UK has to dedicate its resources to maintain the rights and benefits of the citizenship, including the public service.

    I think by implying that we should accept them even if they are a net loss for the UK, you are asking for charity. If the UK has an apatite to be charitable to all immigrants, the government would have a mandate. However this is not the case, the Conservatives manifesto actually pledged to reduce immigration. Since they are elected as government, they have a mandate to reduce it.

    You simply can't shame someone just because they refuse to do something that is outside of their duty and responsibility. In fact, it is perfectly reasonable to expect something in return for the expense of granting citizenships.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    How are your GCSEs going so far?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.