EU protection racket threatens to kneecap England

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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Only because the Eurozone and EU destroyed their economies and employment. You are utterly clueless about this, your denial is the EU's denial. The EU and Eurozone has utterly decimated Southern Europe.
    Is there any evidence of this at all? If anything, Greece in particular cheated its way into the Euro with help of Goldman. It failed to collect taxes. It lived way beyond its means. Spain in particular has failed its own citizens, youth unemployment is sky high - that is a structural problem that the government has not addressed for decades. Nothing to do with the EU or the Eurozone.

    Err, you were the one who suggested that the US or China cares more about Germany than the UK...this is a lie. And anyhow, I couldn't care less what they think, this is your obsession. A global UK is one that can have free trade and not live within the confines of an authoritarian, bureaucratic protectionist cartel that threatens it's members into more political union. No thankyou, that is 20th century European history all over again and I want no part.
    It is not a lie. You just wish it was a lie. Germany has traditionally strong ties to China, and the EU is a much bigger market than UK. The only reason China is interested in the UK is to exploit it. China is the much bigger market. UK needs China much more than vice versa. China knows this, hence any trade deal with China, will not be as amazing as Brexiters think.

    The second part, which part of the 20th century is that exactly? The first half or the second half?

    [/QUOTE]The EU is only Europe of you are brainwashed. We don't have any obligation to it, the only traitors are the people who want to give our sovereignty away to Isalmists, neo-nazis and anti-semites.[/QUOTE]

    As much as I am worried about that crass numbers of Muslims immigrating, that was much more a Germany only thing rather than an EU thing. However, thinking that people actually want to do the latter part is fear mongering at best, paranoid at worst.

    Greece treated fairly, what a joke. Most Europeans can see how utterly self-serving your arguments are. You even call yourself 'Teuton', can you imagine your self-righteousness if one of the terrible 'knuckle dragging' Brits said something similarly ethnic-nationalist?
    See above, considering they cheated their way in, lived way beyond their means, received massive bail outs, it IS only fair to demand that they pay it back. To demand that they follow some form of austerity and not continue their way of life which is unsustainable.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Well Teuton, the UK has a nuclear weapon. You don't. You're extremely lucky we didn't do more than the bombing of Dresden, we behaved decently and saved the continent from German domination. I'm not remotely jealous of Germany....unlike you I argue proportionately. Germany is a moderately powerful economy, that is suffering a downturn as many are. To suggest that it is so beyond question, and unequivocally so much more than the UK, is indicative of your stock in trade- indoctrination and anglophobia. The only envy I can hear is yours, and the fact the EU has so little objectively to commend it, is precisely why it must try to 'make us feel the pain' of exit. It simply can't win the objective case. Push on, with more Europe, more centralization, and threats of punishment for those who leave. It will fail to work, i can assure you. The EU is doomed, you are behind the political curve.
    You did **** all. Without just one of Russia/US you would be speaking German now. Nuclear weapon? One it was largely driven by German scientists and two we have learned from our past and we as a nation do not want such a weapon. The fact that you do and boast about it, speaks volumes about your character. The rest of your post is just Brexit gibberish. Thinking that as a sole country you have a better standing than combined :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    But the UK is only asking for a free trade agreement, it's not a one-sided thing. Both sides benefit.
    So you think the EU saying we must be hard on UK is terrible, but you would do the same to Scotland?

    You will not get free trade without free movement.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    The thinking behind 'Flexit' if you're familiar with it is to remain in the single market for the short-term as we phase repatriation of our laws, and then further down the line remove ourselves entirely from the single market and the common external tariff.*

    This is what the likes of Daniel Hannan had proposed before the referendum, but after the narrow victory he, along with many others, would have liked a compromise where we essentially remain in the single market indefinitely due to the lack of a mandate for such a 'hard Brexit'. Despite this, all those die-hard Remoaner types won't even discuss any of these Brexit possibilities, instead they just shout "'Nah, you racists can just leave for good, it's what you wanted all along!!!". Quite amusing.*
    What is amusing is that you don't want to accept that a) Brexiters don't have consensus, never had and b) that the majority of people who voted Brexit do actually fit that description rather well.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I've heard this over and over- we must be in the EU because empire is gone, and Brexiteers want to 'relive empire'. It has no basis in reality and reeks of projection. Actually remainers are the ones obsessed with 'foreign policy presence' and want the US wants. It was absolutely nothing to do with that, I'd be quite happy conducting very little foreign policy at all. I voted on the basis of economics, self-determination, liberty and democracy.
    What a wonderful concept throughout history.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    You will not get free trade without free movement.
    There's a precedence for getting free trade in goods based on the 53 non-EU countries that have trade deals with the EU(which kind of kills the Brexit argument about the EU stopping us trading with the world but that's another story).

    Free trade in services is another matter which I doubt we'll without free movement, but we have got a massive trade deficit with the EU which gives us some bargaining power.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    There's a precedence for getting free trade in goods based on the 53 non-EU countries that have trade deals with the EU(which kind of kills the Brexit argument about the EU stopping us trading with the world but that's another story).

    Free trade in services is another matter which I doubt we'll without free movement, but we have got a massive trade deficit with the EU which gives us some bargaining power.
    Except you also have London. If the EU can make it just so that financial services say well might just be better to move to Frankfurt/Paris, then that outweighs the trade deficit. In fact, it will be one of the most important things of Brexit for the UK to achieve, London remaining attractive.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    A defining characteristic of a protection racket is that once you have bought in to the "service" and are receiving the "protection", any attempt to break free will result in immediate threats and maybe physical violence. The racketeer cannot allow the victim to see that they can live without the racket.

    And thus we see the European protection racket behaving in the same way. Juncker (who is a violent drunk and one of the major architects of the system of legal European tax avoidance that deprived advanced economies of billions by inducing these companies to legally headquarter themselves in Luxembourg) and German ministers from the SPD (social democrats) have said that the UK must be punished. The EU must make it as uncomfortable as possible for the UK; and they're not even ashamed to admit the reason. They are upfront in saying that it is to deter others from thinking about leaving.

    Today the Slovakian PM said;



    https://www.ft.com/content/d0bb8d4a-...2-0c7211ef3198

    These kinds of comments display the immature and supercilious attitude of people who are extremely insecure in their own beliefs. Is the European Union so flimsy that it has to insult and threaten any country that decides it may not want what the others want? Is there no room in Europe to say, "Thanks for the times we're worked together. We think we need to follow our own path now, but we wish you all the best and would like to stay friends"? Apparently not. You're either joined at the hip with them, or they hate you.

    It's also interesting how they say the UK cannot have freedom for goods, services and capital without taking free movement of persons. There is no logical reason why they have to come as a package; all or nothing. Particularly given the EU has been negotiating a free trade agreement in Canada and the agreement on services with a whole range of countries that will allow freedom to trade goods and services without free movement of persons.

    The eurocrats are desperately fearful that if Britain gets its way, the people of Europe will see there's no inherent reason why you have to have free movement of persons to have free trade. Thus we get the threats, the hysteria, the one-sided demands (the Slovakian PM spent 20 minutes insulting and threatening Britain, as if we give a crap about that fourth-rate nothing country, and then makes demands on the UK with respect to allowing his citizens who work in the UK to keep working there... the Poles particularly know they couldn't absorb 900,000 unemployed Poles moving home)
    Can yeh blame them?

    This isn't Disneyland, yeh handed in your transfer request don't expect the fans to be chanting your name..at least for the right reasons..
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Except you also have London. If the EU can make it just so that financial services say well might just be better to move to Frankfurt/Paris, then that outweighs the trade deficit. In fact, it will be one of the most important things of Brexit for the UK to achieve, London remaining attractive.
    I bet Dublin especially are loving the prospect of any negative outcomes from this. Just being English speaking makes any relocation ideas seem less of a hurdle.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So you think the EU saying we must be hard on UK is terrible, but you would do the same to Scotland?

    You will not get free trade without free movement.
    Where did I state that? Your assumption is bizarre.

    Actually I will fully support Scotland if they voted to be independent. If you have read my post on Scottish independence, I absolutely support the democratic will of the Scottish people and I don't support punitive measures on Scotland.

    If the EU maintain its stance that free movement is compulsory, then we should trade as a member of the WTO under the 2.3% MFN tariff. We are already seeing great level of support for this scenario.

    Most Brexit voters voted Brexit for control of immigration, not free movement. This is the absolute bottom line for the majority. The EU will soon realise that this is not something we will compromise on. Whether they want to soften its stance is up to them.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Where did I state that? Your assumption is bizarre.

    Actually I will fully support Scotland if they voted to be independent. If you have read my post on Scottish independence, I absolutely support the democratic will of the Scottish people and I don't support punitive measures on Scotland.

    If the EU maintain its stance that free movement is compulsory, then we should trade as a member of the WTO under the 2.3% MFN tariff. We are already seeing great level of support for this scenario.

    Most Brexit voters voted Brexit for control of immigration, not free movement. This is the absolute bottom line for the majority. The EU will soon realise that this is not something we will compromise on. Whether they want to soften its stance is up to them.
    :teehee:
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)

    Sure, because a finance-focused economy that 98% of respectable organisations, think-tanks and experts predicted to be permanently worse-off with a currency that took a huge hit commands envy!



    It seems to work pretty well so far. You have pissed off a huge trading bloc which you heavily depend on - doesn't sound too good, does it?
    The single market is over. Why are you so sure it isn't? There is more anti-EU sentiment in France and the Netherlands than there is in the UK.

    The people using the currency thing clearly know nothing. If that's the most you can come up with....currencies fluctuate. The pound needed to come down, and will come back up a bit. The fact is, a low pound is good for exports, a high pound good for imports. No more than that. Whenever I hear people cling to 'the pound falling' (over a very short period of time) as some sort of unequivocal sign of economic hopelessness, I know they are talking superficial, economically illiterate nonsense.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    You did **** all. Without just one of Russia/US you would be speaking German now. Nuclear weapon? One it was largely driven by German scientists and two we have learned from our past and we as a nation do not want such a weapon. The fact that you do and boast about it, speaks volumes about your character. The rest of your post is just Brexit gibberish. Thinking that as a sole country you have a better standing than combined :rolleyes:
    And most of Europe will seemingly be speaking German within the EU whilst it destroys southern Europes economies and sends them to Germany for work.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And most of Europe will seemingly be speaking German within the EU whilst it destroys southern Europes economies and sends them to Germany for work.
    Destroys them or bails them out after mismanagement?
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    (Original post by yudothis)


    It is not a lie. You just wish it was a lie. Germany has traditionally strong ties to China, and the EU is a much bigger market than UK. The only reason China is interested in the UK is to exploit it. China is the much bigger market. UK needs China much more than vice versa. China knows this, hence any trade deal with China, will not be as amazing as Brexiters think.

    .
    So? China is a much bigger market than the EU. What is this logic that say just because we are a smaller small proportion of Chinas size, we will get a bad deal? The EU does not have an impressive economic record, whatever the blindly in love claim. We do not have history of failing to profit through relations with other countries, whatever our size.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    So two thirds of the southern European nations in this poll name Germany as the most trustworthy nation in Europe. Yep, pure, unadulterated resentment and hate, no respect at all.

    Here's a tip: If you want to prove a point, don't quote polls that disprove your point.
    They get 5/8 most arrogant, and 6/8 least compassionate.

    Once again, like on the economic point, I'm the one being objective, yoiu are the one making ludicruous claims. 'Uk's economy is hopeless and insignificant compared to Germanys.' I do not state nonsense like Germany having a hopeless tiny economy, I simply use objectivity to show that the above statement is nonsense. 'Everyone hates you and Germany is widely loved' Again, I don't state that we are so much more loved, I simply show you the above which portrays it clearly isn't like that.

    You are consumed by bitterness. And, as I say, there would be none of this animosity, if the EU had that much to objectively commend it, and the UK was really and irrelevance. Why would you go on like this? The EU would be totally secure, successful, and you wouldn't be bothered by an irrelevance like us. The fact ius anyone looking at your posts can see this isn't the case- the EU is the OP says a protection racket, it has to use blackmail and threats to keep people in, it is authoritarian and anti-democratic and detrimental to most of it's citizens, so hence a nation not being cowed and leaving will break the status quo and precipitate other nations to be emboldened that maybe they can escape the blackmail and bring to an end this damaging vision. You are well aware of this- it is why you people blindly defend the faults of the EU that mystifies me, as it is the reason why it will fail- more arrogance, more authoritarianism, more conceit and knowing what's best, more obliterating democracy and threats.

    And hence it will fail.

    The EU is the continuation of Germany by other means.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    So? China is a much bigger market than the EU. What is this logic that say just because we are a smaller small proportion of Chinas size, we will get a bad deal? The EU does not have an impressive economic record, whatever the blindly in love claim. We do not have history of failing to profit through relations with other countries, whatever our size.
    That is how bargaining power works...
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Destroys them or bails them out after mismanagement?
    The 'mismanagement' is exacerbated hugely because they have lack of economic sovereignty and are in the single currency. Of course they didn't have the somewhat dubious benefits of 'single market' membership, before, but it amazes me how these blindly in love EUphiles, who will accept no criticism(who are a large part of what lost the referendum) simply deny facts- they never had levels of unemployment or poverty like that, you'd have to go back to Franco and the dictatorship when Spain, did, when they were in the Peseta, they were far better off. I'm not denying that the EU may have benefited Germany, and the like of Poland maybe(although Poland actually is not in the Eurozone) but these are very different cultures and economies...they would be far better off with the flexibility of their own currencies, not to mention tax policies(which the EU seeks to now harmonize)and contrary to the propaganda, in favour of globalism, there is much credible economic opinion to support that. And why do we need and EU army when we have NATO and the UN?

    This is just every unnaccountable bureaucracts dream, another layer of politicos, lunching it decadently, obliterating democracy and national sovereignty, and causing economic misery with their high handed arrogance.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    The single market is over. Why are you so sure it isn't?
    Because there is zero factual evidence that it is, you are just talking out of your nationalist ass, as usual.

    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    There is more anti-EU sentiment in France and the Netherlands than there is in the UK.
    Factually wrong. You're a joke, mate.

    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    The people using the currency thing clearly know nothing. If that's the most you can come up with....currencies fluctuate.
    'using the currency thing'? You mean stating the fact that the Pound plummeted as a precursor to the years-long recession you lot will experience? It helping the tiny exports that you actually have (it's not like you have an industry to speak of) will not even come close to canceling that out.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    That is how bargaining power works...
    I am saying that our economy is the 5th largest in the world. The EU has sat on it's hands and has a bad record. They are protectionist. We are in terms of population, both small proportions of China, but anyhow, there is so much more to trade than China, there is the commonwealth and anglosphere, India, Australia et al cueing up.

    You are sold on this thing and totally negating the UK's hand in the world.

    There is Japan, OZ, USA, China, India- all totally different sizes. They make their way.

    We are held back by an EU with a terrible economic model and history, and people act as though our entire mercantile, rich global history is irrelevant, it isn't and history pertains to the future. You people are much , much to negative, and far too blind to the faults of the EU. I think you lack philosophical perspective, too, with respect.
 
 
 
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