if there was an election tomorow

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    [QUOTE=Jammy Duel;67762172]
    (Original post by Slaw92)

    When your ideas are ones that have already been resigned to the footnote of the history book the last thing you want to do is going around shouting about it, it makes you far too easy to defeat.

    We live in a capitalist country that is pro monarchy and doesn't tend to like terrorists, who exactly are they going to elect a socialist who is anti monarchy and calls terrorists friends who only appears a week leader, weak on defence, and week on the economy? He fails at three of the main things people want in a PM.

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    The people that are likely to vote for him are those on zero hour contracts, those who are working all the hours available and are still living in poverty, those who have to take their families to food banks, those on disability benefits being told they are fit to work when they aren't, losing money for weeks, potentially months, those who cant afford a home and because of a lack of social housing, have to live in hostels for months sometimes until being placed somewhere. Those are the people most likely to vote Jeremy Corbyn and unfortunately for 21st century Britain, those people are in the millions! Alot of these people probably wouldn't class themselves as socialists, or even left or right, they don't care, they don't have the time or money to care, these are people desperate for things to change and who finally have a voice in parliament.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Why would the PLP get on board, when his private army have been essentially declaring war on them for months? They're so far apart ideologically, that there is no middle ground that would be acceptable to either of them.

    Momentum have already said all there is to about having no real desire to win an election. That's not on their agenda. What they're about is ideological purity. They want the Labour Party to change from a party of government, to a radical Marxist protest group - one with at least some representation. Winning the election and actually effecting change of any kind isn't part of any plan.
    Where have you got your information on "momentum" from? The press? The media? Or from actual member themselves? If you meet them they are for the most part just ordinary young people, excited about politics. It has been members of the PLP who blatantly refused to back the democratically elected leader and would slander this group that were starting a "war" but that's in the past now, a line has been drawn in the sand and hopefully all parties will be grown up and get on with things.
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    We left the EU. Whether you disagree with the decision or not, electing a party that has a huge majority of members who would rather have a 2nd referendum than carry out the will of the people, is stupid. Conservative or UKIP are the only viable options in my eyes.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Pray tell what good 150 socialists are against 350-400 Tory MPs with a parliamentary majority of 100-200? In other words, what good are these socialists MPs when getting elected effectively creates a one party state. There are three things the Tories are good at: Getting into government, staying in government, and utilising their political capital well.
    If only they put so much energy into doing what's right for the people of the country.

    It does help when 90% of the media slavishly support your party. I've already beat you over the head with the Falklands thing a couple of times in this thread.

    That's how the Tories get into government, stay in government, and utilise their political capital well.
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    (Original post by New- Emperor)
    if there was an election tomorrow who would you vote for? I think I would vet for
    Lib Dem as they want to take us back in to the EU.

    The Tories seem to have got worse after Cameron (pig fancier) left office and
    now seem quite elitist.
    Labour are in disarray.

    I can't see/want UKIP in power so it seems to me that Lib Dem is my only option
    Either Monster Raving Loonie Party or Labour
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    (Original post by Aniki_)
    We left the EU. Whether you disagree with the decision or not, electing a party that has a huge majority of members who would rather have a 2nd referendum than carry out the will of the people, is stupid. Conservative or UKIP are the only viable options in my eyes.
    Jeremy Corbyn has never said he want's to have a 2nd referendum, he has only said he respects the democratic decision and would like to try and get the best deal possible. It was Owen Smith who was on about calling a 2nd referendum.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Tory.

    Labour have elected an extremist, the Lib Dems have abandoned the coalition years and have turned on the Tories and although James is preferable to Farage, they still come across as being a party who blames others for the countries personal failings.

    I do prefer Cameron to May though, i think the country will miss him in time.
    What do you think an extremist is?
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    Where have you got your information on "momentum" from? The press? The media? Or from actual member themselves? If you meet them they are for the most part just ordinary young people, excited about politics. It has been members of the PLP who blatantly refused to back the democratically elected leader and would slander this group that were starting a "war" but that's in the past now, a line has been drawn in the sand and hopefully all parties will be grown up and get on with things.
    There is zero chance of peace. The sides are so far apart that there's no way the majority of MPs can exist in a party that has a leadership and support where it currently resides.

    It would be the equivalent of the tens of thousands of far-right aligned people joining the Conservative party en masse, electing a far-right leader and then expecting the general bulk of the Tory MPs to just toe the line and follow. This in reality wouldn't happen, because that's not how the dynamic between right and left wing politcs works - but this is the general idea.

    The point that's always missed is how Corbynism is a coup in iteself against the Labour party. Corbyn has very little to do with Labour. He doesn't really care about Labour - he's a self-promoting Trot, a student union Peter Pan. His voting record against Labour governments says it all - he's a rebel who's become the President, and now can't tolerate rebellion.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    There is zero chance of peace. The sides are so far apart that there's no way the majority of MPs can exist in a party that has a leadership and support where it currently resides.

    It would be the equivalent of the tens of thousands of far-right aligned people joining the Conservative party en masse, electing a far-right leader and then expecting the general bulk of the Tory MPs to just toe the line and follow. This in reality wouldn't happen, because that's not how the dynamic between right and left wing politcs works - but this is the general idea.

    The point that's always missed is how Corbynism is a coup in iteself against the Labour party. Corbyn has very little to do with Labour. He doesn't really care about Labour - he's a self-promoting Trot, a student union Peter Pan. His voting record against Labour governments says it all - he's a rebel who's become the President, and now can't tolerate rebellion.
    The division in the party has never been about Jeremy's policies. The PLP have openly admitted numerous times they agree with most of them, they just don't find Jeremy "electable". If they didn't agree with them then why would they back Owen Smith, who basically shared all the same policies apart from Trident and Brexit, there really wasn't much of a difference at all.

    Are you genuinely trying to say an active MP for the same party for over 30 years doesn't care or have anything to do with the party? He has voted against Labour many times just as he has voted with them many times. Do you think he should have just went along with the majority and voted "for" the Iraq war? Jeremy voted against what he felt was unfair or bad policies. This is part of his appeal.
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    The division in the party has never been about Jeremy's policies. The PLP have openly admitted numerous times they agree with most of them, they just don't find Jeremy "electable". If they didn't agree with them then why would they back Owen Smith, who basically shared all the same policies apart from Trident and Brexit, there really wasn't much of a difference at all.

    Are you genuinely trying to say an active MP for the same party for over 30 years doesn't care or have anything to do with the party? He has voted against Labour many times just as he has voted with them many times. Do you think he should have just went along with the majority and voted "for" the Iraq war? Jeremy voted against what he felt was unfair or bad policies. This is part of his appeal.
    It's not once or twice, it's hundreds of times. He has no stake in Labour - it's just somewhere he's been hanging out with his other extremist mates and it just so happened that this whole thing was dropped in his lap - he sees the chance for his revolution and he's running with it.

    His appeal is so much smaller than you think - the people he appeals to are just very, very, very noisy. There are probably half a million people in Britain who will vote for anything vaguely anti-establishment - and they'll vote for Corbyn, along with a few million mindless Labour "just-becauses" and a couple of hundred thousand people who are just Commies. But that's it. That's not a lot of people compared to the number who find him to be a dangerous lunatic spreading a gospel of lies.

    But what you are describing is exactly the Corbynite agenda. Ideological purity and extremism at all costs.

    Personally, I think it's great. The Labour party will be utterly wiped out in a generation, you'll probably have the delusional Marxist leadership hanging on, and the best part is - you'll all blame "the Media" and "Blairite traitors" when in actual fact the problem was that everything you stood for was utterly insane.
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    I'd vote Tory or Greens.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    I'd vote Tory or Greens.
    That's rather peculiar, fluctuating between a very economically right wing party and a very economically left wing one.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    It's not once or twice, it's hundreds of times. He has no stake in Labour - it's just somewhere he's been hanging out with his other extremist mates and it just so happened that this whole thing was dropped in his lap - he sees the chance for his revolution and he's running with it.

    His appeal is so much smaller than you think - the people he appeals to are just very, very, very noisy. There are probably half a million people in Britain who will vote for anything vaguely anti-establishment - and they'll vote for Corbyn, along with a few million mindless Labour "just-becauses" and a couple of hundred thousand people who are just Commies. But that's it. That's not a lot of people compared to the number who find him to be a dangerous lunatic spreading a gospel of lies.

    But what you are describing is exactly the Corbynite agenda. Ideological purity and extremism at all costs.

    Personally, I think it's great. The Labour party will be utterly wiped out in a generation, you'll probably have the delusional Marxist leadership hanging on, and the best part is - you'll all blame "the Media" and "Blairite traitors" when in actual fact the problem was that everything you stood for was utterly insane.
    All just your personal opinion without any real evidence to back it up. He is hardly a lunatic, you might not agree with his policies but please tell me one of them that you think is utterly insane?

    I really don't see or hear many calling him a lunatic, about the worst is "unelectable" which is more for superficial reasons rather than his policies. The Labour party is not going to be wiped out, this is just wild over-exaggeration at best.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    It's not once or twice, it's hundreds of times. He has no stake in Labour - it's just somewhere he's been hanging out with his other extremist mates and it just so happened that this whole thing was dropped in his lap - he sees the chance for his revolution and he's running with it.

    His appeal is so much smaller than you think - the people he appeals to are just very, very, very noisy. There are probably half a million people in Britain who will vote for anything vaguely anti-establishment - and they'll vote for Corbyn, along with a few million mindless Labour "just-becauses" and a couple of hundred thousand people who are just Commies. But that's it. That's not a lot of people compared to the number who find him to be a dangerous lunatic spreading a gospel of lies.

    But what you are describing is exactly the Corbynite agenda. Ideological purity and extremism at all costs.

    Personally, I think it's great. The Labour party will be utterly wiped out in a generation, you'll probably have the delusional Marxist leadership hanging on, and the best part is - you'll all blame "the Media" and "Blairite traitors" when in actual fact the problem was that everything you stood for was utterly insane.
    This seems to be a rather unfair post, from someone I considered quite balanced.

    I vote for Labour and I don't support Corbyn. I simply feel that Labour are the only viable social democrat opposition to the tories, even with Corbyn.

    Although again, if we didn't have such a restrictive electoral system, Labour could split into a hard left party and a social democratic one, the latter I would vote for.
    I'm not sure why you want the opposition to be wiped out and for us to have in effect a one party state either.
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    National Socialist Party of Great Britain
    Spoiler:
    Show
    jks
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    you want to see the lib dems, aka the fib dems, aka the lie-beral dim-o-craps, aka the tretchorous tory *******s back in power?
    Have my babies
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    All just your personal opinion without any real evidence to back it up. He is hardly a lunatic, you might not agree with his policies but please tell me one of them that you think is utterly insane?

    I really don't see or hear many calling him a lunatic, about the worst is "unelectable" which is more for superficial reasons rather than his policies. The Labour party is not going to be wiped out, this is just wild over-exaggeration at best.
    He consorts with terrorists, is a Putin fanboy, and has an ideology but no policies whatsoever on almost anything.

    He has not the slightest clue on how to deal with anything remotely related to foreign policy except a heartfelt notion that "Israel is bad"

    He wants to have nuclear submarines with no nuclear missiles on board.

    He is happy to have all the nastiest and most dangerous elements in his party

    He plotted with Shami Chakrabarti in exchange for a peerage.

    Any time he's asked a question that he doesn't want to answer he does that thing where he tips his head and looks over his glasses, and pretends that the question is entirely invalid.

    This is a man leading the Opposition party. He can only be a lunatic if he thinks he's fit to lead it.
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    Corbyn has no clue what to do about ISIS, Syria, NATO, Trident, Russia.

    He wants to abolish student fees - that's a considerable financial undertaking, but has utterly no clue as to how to pay for that.

    He wants to build four times as many new homes as we currently are - this is something that isn't actually logistically possible.

    He proposes the reintroduction of Empire in the name of eliminating tax havens. He actually wants to essentially take governmental power away from British Overseas Territories. What precisely would he do if they refuse? He can't invade. He's a pacifist.

    This is Corbyn all over - the impossible dressed up as policy, just vague notions that his hordes of slavering worshippers will cheer about. Only a lunatic would present this as a manifesto for government. The man has been leader of Labour for a year, and he has achieved precisely nothing and presented nothing, except to fracture his own party beyond repair.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    He consorts with terrorists, is a Putin fanboy, and has an ideology but no policies whatsoever on almost anything.

    He has not the slightest clue on how to deal with anything remotely related to foreign policy except a heartfelt notion that "Israel is bad"

    He wants to have nuclear submarines with no nuclear missiles on board.

    He is happy to have all the nastiest and most dangerous elements in his party

    He plotted with Shami Chakrabarti in exchange for a peerage.

    Any time he's asked a question that he doesn't want to answer he does that thing where he tips his head and looks over his glasses, and pretends that the question is entirely invalid.

    This is a man leading the Opposition party. He can only be a lunatic if he thinks he's fit to lead it.
    He has plenty of policies, if you would care to look them up and then point out the ones that back up your opinion of him being a "lunatic" then please, feel free. Again, he has very well thought out opinions on foreign policy, look it up if you wish. I don't think you will though, you seem to have made your mind up about him and people who support him based on, well so far, nothing very substantial.

    I don't think anything he has done or been accused of is as remotely as nasty as providing £3 billion worth of arms to the Saudis in the past 18 months, which has been used to bomb the s*** out of Yemen and then kindly provide £100 million worth of aid to Yemen, while blocking a UN enquiry of Saudi under the accusation of war crimes. Who did this again?
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    (Original post by Slaw92)
    He has plenty of policies, if you would care to look them up and then point out the ones that back up your opinion of him being a "lunatic" then please, feel free. Again, he has very well thought out opinions on foreign policy, look it up if you wish. I don't think you will though, you seem to have made your mind up about him and people who support him based on, well so far, nothing very substantial.
    There's nothing remotely well-thought out about any of his policy. It's just student union nonsense that's popped into his head over the last 40 years. There is utterly no plan whatsoever to pay for free university. If there were a realistic option on this, the Tories or New Labour would have done it and hauled in a ton of votes.

    His foreign policies are non-existent. Leave NATO? Where's the thought? Unilateral disarmament? Pacifism?


    I don't think anything he has done or been accused of is as remotely as nasty as providing £3 billion worth of arms to the Saudis in the past 18 months, which has been used to bomb the s*** out of Yemen and then kindly provide £100 million worth of aid to Yemen, while blocking a UN enquiry of Saudi under the accusation of war crimes. Who did this again?
    Arms trade is an extension of foreign policy, and a surrogate for defence. You might not like it, but this is the reality of the global stage. You either pull these people in and try and be matey with them, or you have to accept that they're you enemies. Want to be enemies with Saudi Arabia? Don't you think we have enough problems?
 
 
 
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