Is Islamophobia a problem in the UK?

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    (Original post by AmirahxRashid)
    To be honest we believe that god is not wrong. And as far as beating women or beating anyone for that matter i am strictly against that.
    When you take two contradictory positions (god says' it's OK to beat women but you disagree but still think god is right) your position is not worthy of respect. Derision and ridicule is all your opinion deserves.
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    (Original post by thickleftard)
    Dislike/prejudice against Muslims comes under Islamophobia. Islamophobia is clearly a dislike against Islam OR Muslims. It collectivises the dislike of both entities.
    How the individuals distinguish between genuine cases of bigotry and criticism of the ideology is the issue at hand here.
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    (Original post by Ashaibrahim5)
    Can you read? I clearly said some are facing daily Islamophobia depending on where they live. I said the UK isn't so bad.
    If only they experienced the same kind of security and freedom that atheists do in Muslim countries...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack..._in_Bangladesh
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...m-nahed-hattar
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-9228389.html
    https://www.atheistalliance.org/regi...-pakistan.html
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    Ah but that doesn't count

    Nor does the murder and persecution of some Muslims in the UK for being the wrong sort of Muslim
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/birmingham-...i-sect-1577946

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ah...ims-1002773646

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35928848
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    (Original post by AmirahxRashid)
    To be honest we believe that god is not wrong. And as far as beating women or beating anyone for that matter i am strictly against that.
    The problem you have here is, as I have already pointed out, your god says that it is ok to beat your wife (under certain circumstances) as well as inflicting violent punishment, torture and death on others (under certain circumstances).
    So, you cannot claim that Allah is never wrong and then say that he is wrong about some stuff. The only way you are able to do this is by having a funamental, logical disconnect between the two contradictory positions. You are able to justify something to yourself that is completely unjustifiable, and while I am in no way suggesting that it applies to you, it is this kind of logical disconnect that allows people to do other unjustifiable things.

    People who decide to beat their wife up are horrible, i dont agreee with it.
    Neither does any civilised person.

    But that doesnt mean the god or religion is wrong.
    If it doesn't, it means that you are wrong to oppose it!

    Times and laws have changed so we have to adapt our religion to them.
    But surely Allah's laws cannot change. That is what the Quran says. As a Muslim, you cannot claim that man's morality is now superior to Allah's. Which is exactly what you are doing!

    It is not only muslims that beat up their wives there are numerous other cases were wives have been beaten and they are not muslims.
    Indeed. It is a human problem. However, Muslims can point to Allah's perfect message and claim that they have his permission (under certain conditions)

    I am really not going to bother to keep on argueing with you or explaining whilst wasting my time with you.😡😡😡 My general message was just to be kind with one another thats all, nothing more nothing less. 🤗🤗🤗And if you really need to find flaws with my comments carry on doing as you please cos i have said what i had to say and im not gonna waste any minute saying it again. Goodbye😐😐😐😐
    I was just pointing out the fundamental contradiction in your position, and nothing you have said has addressed that, rather, it has just confirmed it. I understand the turmoil that must result from being brought up to believe in the perfection of Islam, and then gradually realising that it is far from perfect. You can't give up your faith because you still believe that it is true, yet you can't accept all the violence, oppression and intolerance. It must be difficult for you (and millions like you).
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    I don't exactly know what you are trying to achieve.
    Simply to point out the fundamental contradiction of your position. Like your brother Rashid, you seem to be claiming that while the word of Allah is perfect, you disagree with some of it. :confused:

    If you are attempting to make me doubt my religion, or force a mindset on to me, I have no idea.
    I think the world would be a better place if people would all address issues critically and objectively. If you are able to rationalise the illogical, then you can justify any kind of behaviour.

    My opening point to all of this was that I was called a terrorist based on my appearance in public.
    And that is wrong. It is another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking.

    But we are not talking about that now. We are talking about your claim that you think homosexuality is acceptable but at the same time, claiming that Allah's word is perfect (he does not think homosexuality is acceptable BTW)
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Simply to point out the fundamental contradiction of your position. Like your brother Rashid, you seem to be claiming that while the word of Allah is perfect, you disagree with some of it. :confused:

    I think the world would be a better place if people would all address issues critically and objectively. If you are able to rationalise the illogical, then you can justify any kind of behaviour.

    And that is wrong. It is another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking.

    But we are not talking about that now. We are talking about your claim that you think homosexuality is acceptable but at the same time, claiming that Allah's word is perfect (he does not think homosexuality is acceptable BTW)
    Claim as you wish, I am done with this conversation.
    Should you wish to justify everything that you say or what others say, that is your choice.
    But I have more pressing matters to address rather than on here.

    [/QUOTE]And that is wrong. It is another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking. [/QUOTE]

    And how is that wrong? The fact that I said I was called a terrorist, when the group that called me it, explicitly said "Oh he looks like a terrorist, look at what he's wearing." How can I be wrong on my own personal account, unless you were there to witness the event? Which, I'm 100% ceratin YOU WERE NOT.

    However, that is all I have to say, so please, feel free to critically analyse or understand what I have written. But as for this topic, my opinion still stands, and I am done discussing this yourself.

    Goodbye. And do not consider this a victory of some sorts.
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    It's just pathetic. The fact that there are people who simply cannot respect how other's wish to live their life, so they go and find every possible flaw and point it out. Even if it is outweighed by pros.
    Jimmy Saville raise millions for charity, and entertained millions over the years. Does that, in any way, mitigate his other behaviour?
    Hitler was a vegetarian who was kind to animals and who introduced many huge improvements to the lives of Germans in the 1930s. Nobody thinks that makes any difference though.

    So, just because being a Muslim makes you feel better, why should that outweigh all the violence, intolerance and descrimination in Islam?

    I entirely respect that you have the right to live your life the way you choose, but that does not mean that I have to respect the choices you make.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Jimmy Saville raise millions for charity, and entertained millions over the years. Does that, in any way, mitigate his other behaviour?
    Hitler was a vegetarian who was kind to animals and who introduced many huge improvements to the lives of Germans in the 1930s. Nobody thinks that makes any difference though.

    So, just because being a Muslim makes you feel better, why should that outweigh all the violence, intolerance and descrimination in Islam?

    I entirely respect that you have the right to live your life the way you choose, but that does not mean that I have to respect the choices you make.
    Well at least you respect that. You must take each Muslim into account.
    Myself personally, I am slightly more liberal with my choices in Islam, in terms of social aspects. I respect others based on their true character EVEN THOUGH I have been brought up otherwise.

    A direct example of this, would be the difference between literalist and non-literalist Christians. One takes it word for word, the other follows some parts strictly, and other parts more leniently.
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    (Original post by AmirahxRashid)
    Yep u tottaly get where i am coming from unfortunately there are people like that and we cant do anything about it. So just ignore them and let them do it😐😐😐
    But you can do something about it. You simply present a cogent and reasonable argument that refutes mine. Surely it's not difficult if you are right?

    I don't think that it is coincidence that most arguments between the religionist and the sceptic end with the religionist "ignoring" the argument.
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    (Original post by AmirahxRashid)
    I agree all he does is find flaws and i am not up for that.
    So you would rather ignore them?

    All i said was thatbeveryone deserves to be respected and then he went off on another tangent then i got confused lol
    And I simply pointed out the flaws in that position.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So you would rather ignore them?

    And I simply pointed out the flaws in that position.
    at least they are admitting their argument is actually flawed
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    Guess we shouldn't be kind to each other according to him😂😂
    Now, where on earth did you get that from?
    I'm simply pointing out that :
    A) you are holding two fundamentally contradictory positions, and
    B) respect must be earned, not demanded
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    (Original post by AmirahxRashid)
    Thats fine im not sure either im not someone who reads the quran 24/7. And at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i respect that as i respect urs. QE2 was just doing ma head in thats all (aka giving me a headache)😆😆😆
    That's because I'm pointing out that you are holding two fundamentally contradictory positions, and it is impossible to logically reconcile this, therefore the headache caused by mental turmoil!

    Perhaps if you had read more of the Quran (plus associated surah and tafsir) it would be clearer to you.
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    Claim as you wish, I am done with this conversation.
    Should you wish to justify everything that you say or what others say, that is your choice.
    But I have more pressing matters to address rather than on here.
    What? You are happy to be unable to justify your position on some things?
    Crickey!

    And that is wrong. It is another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking. [/QUOTE]

    And how is that wrong? The fact that I said I was called a terrorist, when the group that called me it, explicitly said "Oh he looks like a terrorist, look at what he's wearing." How can I be wrong on my own personal account, unless you were there to witness the event? Which, I'm 100% ceratin YOU WERE NOT.[/quote] *sigh*
    I said that is was wrong for someone to call you a terrorist because of the way you look. I said that doing that was another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking. If they had, they would have appreciated that the way you look is no definite indicator of your position on terrorism.

    However, that is all I have to say, so please, feel free to critically analyse or understand what I have written. But as for this topic, my opinion still stands, and I am done discussing this yourself.
    So, we have learned that hot only do you hold irreconcilably contradictory positions, but youe are aware of this and are happy with it.
    Well, really don't know what to say to that.

    Goodbye. And do not consider this a victory of some sorts.
    Absolutely not. I think that for someone to confirm that they are happy to think illogically and unreasonably is a sad defeat, and humanity is slightly the worse off for it.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    What? You are happy to be unable to justify your position on some things?
    Crickey!

    And that is wrong. It is another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking.
    And how is that wrong? The fact that I said I was called a terrorist, when the group that called me it, explicitly said "Oh he looks like a terrorist, look at what he's wearing." How can I be wrong on my own personal account, unless you were there to witness the event? Which, I'm 100% ceratin YOU WERE NOT.[/quote] *sigh*
    I said that is was wrong for someone to call you a terrorist because of the way you look. I said that doing that was another example of people not applying logic and reason to their thinking. If they had, they would have appreciated that the way you look is no definite indicator of your position on terrorism.

    So, we have learned that hot only do you hold irreconcilably contradictory positions, but youe are aware of this and are happy with it.
    Well, really don't know what to say to that.

    Absolutely not. I think that for someone to confirm that they are happy to think illogically and unreasonably is a sad defeat, and humanity is slightly the worse off for it.[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate the empathy. And as you wish.
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    Well at least you respect that. You must take each Muslim into account.
    Myself personally, I am slightly more liberal with my choices in Islam, in terms of social aspects. I respect others based on their true character EVEN THOUGH I have been brought up otherwise.

    A direct example of this, would be the difference between literalist and non-literalist Christians. One takes it word for word, the other follows some parts strictly, and other parts more leniently.
    I absolutely respect the position of Muslims who are moving away from fundamentalist literalism, retentionism and infallibility (see the work of Maajid Nawaz and Ali Rizvi).
    However, I cannot respect the position of those who also claim that the Quran is perfect and Allah's message is never wrong.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I absolutely respect the position of Muslims who are moving away from fundamentalist literalism, retentionism and infallibility (see the work of Maajid Nawaz and Ali Rizvi).
    However, I cannot respect the position of those who also claim that the Quran is perfect and Allah's message is never wrong.
    I understad and respect your choices. You are within your right to do so.
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    Just like to point out to everyone that whatever culture, race or religion you are you must respect each other cos thats how the world is going to get better. Not by being horrible to each other.😡😡 We all have to work together. And to those who dont agree i please ask you to not jugde a book 📚📕by its cover. Because not only does it hurt me but it hurts other people.😭😭😭😭 I try to treat everyone equally no matter what religion. And i suggest everyone should do that if wr are goiing to get anywhere in life😄😄😄😄
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    (Original post by theonecenter)
    "Oh he looks like a terrorist, look at what he's wearing." .


    What were you wearing?
 
 
 
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