What a world without God means

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    (Original post by Racoon)
    You really have been sold hook, line and sinker by Fry/Dawkins rhetoric.

    Perhaps you should study the bible's message in more depth cause the skirting over the verses isn't doing you justice.
    I read the bible in full whilst at university. It's what turned me atheist. Assuming others know less than you because they have a different interpretation is foolish. I seek as much information as I can from from as many broad sources as I can. What I find is that religious individuals have to perform an incredible array of mental gymnastics in order to justify their views and these can vary wildly. Atheists don't need to. Ultimately atheists have the same message. Prove there is a god, until then leave us be. No one has succeeded in proving god's (or gods') existence thus far.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    No theist believes your soul existed before you did.
    Better tell that to many pantheists and the millions upon millions of those around the world who believe in reincarnation...
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    A world without God would be filled with chaos and even if you die tomorrow or live to ninety or something you would not feel much of a difference.Your sense of purpose is gone.
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    I almost thought you'd come to an epiphany, but no you're arguing for god

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    (Original post by ElizaMunk)
    A world without God would be filled with chaos and even if you die tomorrow or live to ninety or something you would not feel much of a difference.Your sense of purpose is gone.
    The world is filled with chaos, I see no difference

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    (Original post by ElizaMunk)
    A world without God would be filled with chaos and even if you die tomorrow or live to ninety or something you would not feel much of a difference.Your sense of purpose is gone.
    Of course, because you'd be dead.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    The soul is everlasting, not eternal. There's a difference. No theist believes your soul existed before you did.

    Catholicism uses that quotation in its teaching that the love of money is wrong. The church doesn't oppose profit as such, but making capitalism your god, since this usually leads to the suffering of others. I think most people, theist or otherwise, agree with this teaching.

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    Really? None at all? I wouldn't make definite statements like that.
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    There is already chaos and anarchy in the world. It wouldn't make any difference to be honest.
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    (Original post by _gcx)
    Really? None at all? I wouldn't make definite statements like that.
    Ugh you know full well I meant none of the theists you who guys generally attack. Stop being a needless contrarian.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    It struck me today just what a world without theism really and truly means. It means, simply, that what anyone does in life is intrinsically devoid of all purpose. Whether I die this very second, or live another 80 years, becoming the most successful person in the history of mankind, the net outcome is the same. I will forget everything I ever did; I will be unaware of having ever done anything; “I” won’t even remember having ever existed, and it will be as if I never did. Everyone who I ever saw or spoke to will also rot away into the soil, and when the universe grows cold or the sun expands, so will all humanity. No one will remember anything, because ‘we’ won’t even be capable of thought, let alone memory – everything any human ever did will be completely gone.

    You might think that since you only get one shot at life you have to make the most of it, or else you’ll regret all those things you never did. But once you die, you’re not capable of regret. You will feel exactly the same regardless of what you do in life. Now you might think that even if you don’t remember, you still want to be remembered by everyone else. Surely that’s worth striving for. But again, these people will all rot away into the earth, and forget about their own existence, let alone yours. Ultimately your contribution makes no difference (this extends even to the great figures of history, when humanity dies out, their achievements do too). You may also say that life is simply what you make of it: if you want your offspring to be your purpose in life, then they are. This, however, is no more than a delusion – essentially conning yourself into thinking you have a purpose. Your offspring will rot away, and so will theirs, and so will theirs, and so on, until all humanity is gone, and it’s exactly the same as if no offspring had ever existed.That’s not a purpose, that’s utterly pointless.

    Not only, then, is life purposeless if you’re unhappy or in pain (simply, why bother going on?), but equally purposeless if you’re having a great time, as, once you’re dead, you won’t ever remember that you had a great time, or even what a ‘great time’ is. Some people don’t worry about this though – they’re perfectly happy in their self-made fabrications of purpose in life. If this works for you, then fine. But I know it’s a lie, and so do you. There is only one possible escape. I can’t know for sure if there is any truth in theism, but even if there were the faintest chance, it would be worth taking a million times.

    Please post your thoughts below!
    I don't understand this train of thought at all. You say nothing matters in this life because it is temporary, but things being meaningful doesn't follow from things being eternal. So how does an afterlife make life meaningful? You may suggest this life can be meaningful because of how we act in it determines our experience of the next, but it is also true that how we act in this life determines our experience of this life, too.
    Can you further explain your views?
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Ugh you know full well I meant none of the theists you who guys generally attack. Stop being a needless contrarian.
    1. Few people are "attacking" anyone here, rather trying to start healthy debate about this subject, which is important for all parties that are involved within this conversation. It is also, undoubtedly, the purpose of this thread. If you're simply writing off discussion as attack, then that is essentially discouraging the questioning of beliefs, which is a mentally unhealthy practice.
    2. Define "needless". I am a contrarian, but my efforts are by no means needless.
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    You're right, really. Once we're dead it doesn't matter how much we've enjoyed our lives or what we have done, past its effects on other living people.

    But just because that's an unpleasant thought doesn't make it any less likely to be true. You're also making the mistake that believing in some form of afterlife entails a belief in a god, which it does not. There are much simpler (and therefore more plausible) afterlife theories you could come up with than the compilations of nonsense that are the world's major religious texts. Even if we knew for a fact that an afterlife did exist, those religious texts would still be wrong, and an all-powerful, all-knowing, human-like cosmic intelligence would be no more likely or necessary.

    So if you do want to believe in an afterlife on a sort of Pascal's Wager, or simply to satisfy your own need for purpose, I'd recommend you steer clear of theism and go with the simplest possible belief that satisfies you. Think of the stripped-down populist Buddhism, which is asserts mediation, Karma, rebirth and pretty much nothing else. Why not that over Christianity or Islam?
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    (Original post by BefuddledPenguin)
    I read the bible in full whilst at university. It's what turned me atheist. Assuming others know less than you because they have a different interpretation is foolish. I seek as much information as I can from from as many broad sources as I can. What I find is that religious individuals have to perform an incredible array of mental gymnastics in order to justify their views and these can vary wildly. Atheists don't need to. Ultimately atheists have the same message. Prove there is a god, until then leave us be. No one has succeeded in proving god's (or gods' existence thus far.

    I would say that each person who has had a revelation of who God is has, without doubt, had proof of God's existence.

    I'm sorry you found that reading through the bible turned you away from God. I would suggest you reread it.
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    (Original post by Lavaridge)
    You're right, really. Once we're dead it doesn't matter how much we've enjoyed our lives or what we have done, past its effects on other living people.

    But just because that's an unpleasant thought doesn't make it any less likely to be true. You're also making the mistake that believing in some form of afterlife entails a belief in a god, which it does not. There are much simpler (and therefore more plausible) afterlife theories you could come up with than the compilations of nonsense that are the world's major religious texts. Even if we knew for a fact that an afterlife did exist, those religious texts would still be wrong, and an all-powerful, all-knowing, human-like cosmic intelligence would be no more likely or necessary.

    So if you do want to believe in an afterlife on a sort of Pascal's Wager, or simply to satisfy your own need for purpose, I'd recommend you steer clear of theism and go with the simplest possible belief that satisfies you. Think of the stripped-down populist Buddhism, which is asserts mediation, Karma, rebirth and pretty much nothing else. Why not that over Christianity or Islam?

    "So if you do want to believe in an afterlife on a sort of Pascal's Wager, or simply to satisfy your own need for purpose, I'd recommend you steer clear of theism and go with the simplest possible belief that satisfies you. Think of the stripped-down populist Buddhism, which is asserts mediation, Karma, rebirth and pretty much nothing else. Why not that over Christianity ....."

    Self-effort in an attempt to gain merit points never works.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    I don't understand this train of thought at all. You say nothing matters in this life because it is temporary, but things being meaningful doesn't follow from things being eternal. So how does an afterlife make life meaningful? You may suggest this life can be meaningful because of how we act in it determines our experience of the next, but it is also true that how we act in this life determines our experience of this life, too.
    Can you further explain your views?
    How we act in this life certainly does determine our experience of this life, but I'm arguing that this life is inherently valueless. It isn't remembered by us or anyone else, and it has no lasting effect on anything. I fail to see any meaning or purpose in that.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Self-effort in an attempt to gain merit points never works.
    I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say.
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    You've taken this realllyyyy to the extreme end of nihilism here.

    (Atheistic) Existentialists would all argue that you can create your own form of meaning in life and pursue that as valid meaning. There is no reason why no God = no purpose.

    Moreover why would God himself = purpose? God has literally no reason to create humanity, he just would. There's no reason for God himself to exist. No reason for anything. Religion gives temporary meaning but once you progress to the afterlife; "then what"?

    No-one can give you any objective reason to try and ''enjoy life'', because there isn't. Enjoy it if you want, don't enjoy it if you want. At the end of the day we have to spend 80 years on this planet so as long as you're cool with what you're doing... and even then, it doesn't really matter.

    People 'bother' to try and be happy because this is the only time they spend on this planet and like with all experiences they want to try and get the most out of it before it ends. And there is certainly no denying the one on his deathbed who led a fruitful and joyful life will die happier than the one who sulked because it was all meaningless.
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    (Original post by ElizaMunk)
    A world without God would be filled with chaos and even if you die tomorrow or live to ninety or something you would not feel much of a difference.Your sense of purpose is gone.
    ???????/

    Looks at all the wars
    Looks at nuclear weapons
    Looks at mass deforestation and climate change
    Looks at the extinction of species
    Looks at genetic hereditary diseases
    Looks at crime rates
    Looks at natural disasters
    Looks at meteors, asteroids
    Looks at the entirety of human history from the beginning

    I mean clearly there's absolutely no chaos in the world thanks to this God we have.
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    more silence and democracy
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    (Original post by 123teddy)
    more silence and democracy
    Why more silence?
 
 
 
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