Black lives matter or All lives matter?

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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    There are more white people in general. And just because there are more poor white people, doesn't mean black people are treated equally???

    Just because you're in a position that you feel equal to white people, doesn't mean black people as a population, are seen as equal. I think this is where you aren't connecting things. You've made a good life for yourself and you're black so you everyone else should follow suit and has no excuse.
    Humans are humans, there is no difference in equality, seriously Police dont target blacks to kill and Blacks have every chance of success as whites do, more Whites arent in better positions than Blacks. There are no discriminatory laws against blacks and if you are black and you try hard to pull yourself from the ground you will succeed and prosper the same is for White people also, work hard and you will be rewarded. Its silly how you don't see Black people who have made a success of themselves complain about inequality.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    Let me let you in on a little secret:

    FACT: Those lives are destroyed not due to their actions. But the colour of their skin.

    There are a vast number of examples where black and white people have committed the same crime but the white person serving a less harsher punishment.

    It begs the question. What if Brock Allen Turner were black? Mmmmm. I'll let you ponder about it.
    Where is that fact from really? Your own judgement and view, it has no legitimacy.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    There are more white people in general. And just because there are more poor white people, doesn't mean black people are treated equally???

    Just because you're in a position that you feel equal to white people, doesn't mean black people as a population, are seen as equal. I think this is where you aren't connecting things. You've made a good life for yourself and you're black so you everyone else should follow suit and has no excuse.
    Actually if you want to talk about opportunity then black people have a better chance at going to college, they have more scholarships and they get better offers when they have similar gpa's to white people.

    There are hundreds of scholarships exclusively for blacks not a lot for whites.
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    A lot of people have made the point that in terms of numbers, more white people have been shot by the US police in the past year than black people, but it's also true that there are more white people in the US than black people. In terms of what percentage of white and black people are killed by police, more black people are killed than white people:Name:  BLM.png
Views: 9
Size:  239.1 KBAttachment 582450582452582400
    A black innocent and unarmed man is more likely to be shot by the police than a white innocent and unarmed man.Attachment 582450582452
    A study by a professor at the University of California found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.” Additionally, the analysis found that “there is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.” Here's the link: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141854
    An independent analysis of Washington Post data on police killings found that, “when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are, in fact, less likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.” According to one of the report’s authors, “The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black... Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.” Here's the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...ce-yes-but-no/
    But even if a black person has committed a crime, police are more likely to overreact and be more violent when trying to arrest them than they would be with a white person who has committed the exact same crime. Police are also less likely to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law or even be punished at all for being excessively violent with black people and killing them.
    Just look at the case of Eric Garner: "NYPD officers approached Garner on suspicion of selling "loosies" (single cigarettes) from packs without tax stamps. After Garner told the police that he was tired of being harassed and that he was not selling cigarettes, the officers went to arrest Garner. When officer Daniel Pantaleo tried to take Garner's wrist behind his back, Garner pulled his arms away. Pantaleo then put his arm around Garner's neck and took him down onto the ground. After Pantaleo removed his arm from Garner's neck, he pushed the side of Garner's face into the ground while four officers moved to restrain Garner, who repeated "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes while the officers waited for an ambulance to arrive." (Wikipedia). The police reportedly didn't bother checking whether Garner was alright and he was pronounced dead at a hospital an hour later. Yes, maybe he had committed a crime, and yes, he did try to resist arrest, but the officers were clearly able to overpower him and didn't need to actually kill him. Once Garner was down on the ground it would have been easy enough to put some handcuffs on him and let him up but they didn't despite him saying "I can't breathe". It was decided not to prosecute the officer, despite him already having a history of ignoring the rights of suspects (he had two civil rights lawsuits against him already, one of which was for forcing two black men to strip naked on the street for a search).

    "Black lives matter" doesn't mean that only black lives matter, it means that historically, and even in many aspects of society today, black lives don't matter to many people. "Black lives matter" is identifying a problem within society and is trying to fix it. By supporting "all lives matter" rather than "black lives matter" you are denying that black lives are disproportionately oppressed and discriminated against. Yes, all lives do matter, but the problem is that many parts of society (particularly law enforcement) act as if black lives don't matter, which is why it is so important that we say that they do.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Mostly, enviroment does play a role in the problem but it cant be solved without changing the views of the community first.
    I think that can be done through education and police visits. More education = less crime , Less crime = less deaths = less "inequality" Oh wait... it wasnt due to inequality in the first place. Because Whites and Blacks are all going through the same issues.
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    (Original post by Twiggyrose)
    A lot of people have made the point that in terms of numbers, more white people have been shot by the US police in the past year than black people, but it's also true that there are more white people in the US than black people. In terms of what percentage of white and black people are killed by police, more black people are killed than white people:Name:  BLM.png
Views: 9
Size:  239.1 KBAttachment 582450582452582400
    A black innocent and unarmed man is more likely to be shot by the police than a white innocent and unarmed man.Attachment 582450582452
    A study by a professor at the University of California found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.” Additionally, the analysis found that “there is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.” Here's the link: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141854
    An independent analysis of Washington Post data on police killings found that, “when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are, in fact, less likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.” According to one of the report’s authors, “The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black... Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.” Here's the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...ce-yes-but-no/
    But even if a black person has committed a crime, police are more likely to overreact and be more violent when trying to arrest them than they would be with a white person who has committed the exact same crime. Police are also less likely to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law or even be punished at all for being excessively violent with black people and killing them.
    Just look at the case of Eric Garner: "NYPD officers approached Garner on suspicion of selling "loosies" (single cigarettes) from packs without tax stamps. After Garner told the police that he was tired of being harassed and that he was not selling cigarettes, the officers went to arrest Garner. When officer Daniel Pantaleo tried to take Garner's wrist behind his back, Garner pulled his arms away. Pantaleo then put his arm around Garner's neck and took him down onto the ground. After Pantaleo removed his arm from Garner's neck, he pushed the side of Garner's face into the ground while four officers moved to restrain Garner, who repeated "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes while the officers waited for an ambulance to arrive." (Wikipedia). The police reportedly didn't bother checking whether Garner was alright and he was pronounced dead at a hospital an hour later. Yes, maybe he had committed a crime, and yes, he did try to resist arrest, but the officers were clearly able to overpower him and didn't need to actually kill him. Once Garner was down on the ground it would have been easy enough to put some handcuffs on him and let him up but they didn't despite him saying "I can't breathe". It was decided not to prosecute the officer, despite him already having a history of ignoring the rights of suspects (he had two civil rights lawsuits against him already, one of which was for forcing two black men to strip naked on the street for a search).

    "Black lives matter" doesn't mean that only black lives matter, it means that historically, and even in many aspects of society today, black lives don't matter to many people. "Black lives matter" is identifying a problem within society and is trying to fix it. By supporting "all lives matter" rather than "black lives matter" you are denying that black lives are disproportionately oppressed and discriminated against. Yes, all lives do matter, but the problem is that many parts of society (particularly law enforcement) act as if black lives don't matter, which is why it is so important that we say that they do.
    Unarmed does not mean not a threat Michael brown was unarmed but that officer would of been dead if he didn't shoot as brown would of got his gun
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    (Original post by Twiggyrose)
    A lot of people have made the point that in terms of numbers, more white people have been shot by the US police in the past year than black people, but it's also true that there are more white people in the US than black people. In terms of what percentage of white and black people are killed by police, more black people are killed than white people:Name:  BLM.png
Views: 9
Size:  239.1 KBAttachment 582450582452582400
    A black innocent and unarmed man is more likely to be shot by the police than a white innocent and unarmed man.Attachment 582450582452
    A study by a professor at the University of California found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.” Additionally, the analysis found that “there is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.” Here's the link: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141854
    An independent analysis of Washington Post data on police killings found that, “when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are, in fact, less likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.” According to one of the report’s authors, “The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black... Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.” Here's the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...ce-yes-but-no/
    But even if a black person has committed a crime, police are more likely to overreact and be more violent when trying to arrest them than they would be with a white person who has committed the exact same crime. Police are also less likely to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law or even be punished at all for being excessively violent with black people and killing them.
    Just look at the case of Eric Garner: "NYPD officers approached Garner on suspicion of selling "loosies" (single cigarettes) from packs without tax stamps. After Garner told the police that he was tired of being harassed and that he was not selling cigarettes, the officers went to arrest Garner. When officer Daniel Pantaleo tried to take Garner's wrist behind his back, Garner pulled his arms away. Pantaleo then put his arm around Garner's neck and took him down onto the ground. After Pantaleo removed his arm from Garner's neck, he pushed the side of Garner's face into the ground while four officers moved to restrain Garner, who repeated "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes while the officers waited for an ambulance to arrive." (Wikipedia). The police reportedly didn't bother checking whether Garner was alright and he was pronounced dead at a hospital an hour later. Yes, maybe he had committed a crime, and yes, he did try to resist arrest, but the officers were clearly able to overpower him and didn't need to actually kill him. Once Garner was down on the ground it would have been easy enough to put some handcuffs on him and let him up but they didn't despite him saying "I can't breathe". It was decided not to prosecute the officer, despite him already having a history of ignoring the rights of suspects (he had two civil rights lawsuits against him already, one of which was for forcing two black men to strip naked on the street for a search).

    "Black lives matter" doesn't mean that only black lives matter, it means that historically, and even in many aspects of society today, black lives don't matter to many people. "Black lives matter" is identifying a problem within society and is trying to fix it. By supporting "all lives matter" rather than "black lives matter" you are denying that black lives are disproportionately oppressed and discriminated against. Yes, all lives do matter, but the problem is that many parts of society (particularly law enforcement) act as if black lives don't matter, which is why it is so important that we say that they do.
    I can tell a lot of effort went into this, at least I can thank you for structuring a proper argument. However all likeliness statistics aside, it happens to ALL races, therefore the focus is still unfair, especially considering it happens to the Whites more. Likeliness is irrelevant when these people are already dead and more people are already dead that are White. What is Likeliness when more Whites are already dead than Blacks.
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    Humans are humans, there is no difference in equality, seriously Police dont target blacks to kill and Blacks have every chance of success as whites do, more Whites arent in better positions than Blacks. There are no discriminatory laws against blacks and if you are black and you try hard to pull yourself from the ground you will succeed and prosper the same is for White people also, work hard and you will be rewarded. Its silly how you don't see Black people who have made a success of themselves complain about inequality.
    With beliefs like this I absolutely know I've wasted my time in this debate. I am beyond words.
    You probably think women are treated equal to men :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    With beliefs like this I absolutely know I've wasted my time in this debate. I am beyond words.
    You probably think women are treated equal to men :rolleyes:
    They are. You cannot give me one bit of proof to tell me they are not treated equally. Women infact probably have it better than men, more women are achieving higher grades, more women are going to university and there is a shift from stay at home parenting in terms of which gender stays off work to care for a child.
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    I think that can be done through education and police visits. More education = less crime , Less crime = less deaths = less "inequality" Oh wait... it wasnt due to inequality in the first place. Because Whites and Blacks are all going through the same issues.
    That's true but when a community doesn't value these things then it doesn't matter how much you throw at it.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    That's true but when a community doesn't value these things then it doesn't matter how much you throw at it.
    Well then, I really dont know how to cause a shift in view of what is valuable.
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    Well then, I really dont know how to cause a shift in view of what is valuable.
    People have to stop the trend of blaming others for their problems and start being introspective until then there is not a lot that can happen
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    What is the deal with Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter movements in general, where did it grow from and why can we not come together as a non labelled collective to work on our problems in society?
    Sorry see its been done.
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    They are. You cannot give me one bit of proof to tell me they are not treated equally. Women infact probably have it better than men, more women are achieving higher grades, more women are going to university and there is a shift from stay at home parenting in terms of which gender stays off work to care for a child.
    Really? The pay inequality? If a female chooses work over family shes a devil but if a guy does it he's just providing? domestic violence? government under-representation? sexual assault?
    I am baffeled
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Sorry see its been done.
    "Do some research"

    Its honestly the most commonly used phrase when somebody has a complete lack of argument or cannot contribute to a discussion. Please its a discussion not for me to "do some research" then land at the viewpoint you may have. I have my own opinion.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    Really? The pay inequality? If a female chooses work over family shes a devil but if a guy does it he's just providing? domestic violence? government under-representation? sexual assault?
    I am baffeled
    Is this satire?

    When has that been said LOL, if a women choses to work over a family thats her choice nobody is going to label her for it. lol...

    On the point of domestic violcene? Women can do that too so dont act like all men are evil pigs who beat Women because I personally know that isn't true.

    Government under representation? Or maybe, women dont want to work in politics or government.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    Really? The pay inequality? If a female chooses work over family shes a devil but if a guy does it he's just providing? domestic violence? government under-representation? sexual assault?
    I am baffeled
    So I can work less hours, take more time off in lower paid professions and then complain I don't get paid the same as some specialist surgeon who works 60 hours a week and takes 1 week off a year?

    Dv victims are around 40% male but that is when you take a simplistic look at the figures a more in depth way to look at it is whether abuse is one way or 2 way, dv is split is pretty even under the 3 way system
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    "Do some research"

    Its honestly the most commonly used phrase when somebody has a complete lack of argument or cannot contribute to a discussion. Please its a discussion not for me to "do some research" then land at the viewpoint you may have. I have my own opinion.
    Its the most efficient way of getting what are some very basic answers and it becomes self evident of why it exists. If you dont go in with such basic knowledge then its prety lazy , especually as the OP. I see people have done research for you.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Its the most efficient way of getting what are some very basic answers and it becomes self evident of why it exists. If you dont go in with such basic knowledge then its prety lazy , especually as the OP. I see people have done research for you.
    No no, what you're saying is because I dont agree with your point I haven't done my research. I am sorry but I have and what I have seen and come to the conclusion is that it seems unfair, and to me like there is a bigger problem at large than race inequality.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Its the most efficient way of getting what are some very basic answers and it becomes self evident of why it exists. If you dont go in with such basic knowledge then its prety lazy , especually as the OP. I see people have done research for you.
    It is saying I'm making a claim which I'm either to lazy to back up or know I can't.
 
 
 
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