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why do third wave feminists look down on women who aren't

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    (Original post by upperechelon)
    Wow someone's being over dramatic
    I dont dislike feminists, they're just wrong. And I made a thread, putting it bluntly


    Also are you dumb? I literally just said I expected these responses. Jeez all tis feminism and you forget to learn to read.

    And too long didn't read. You need a life instead of writing essays on student forums, I'm only writing this because I'm bored in an independent study period. Might I suggest being a functioning member of society?
    Feminists are 'wrong'?

    Do you think before you type?
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    Feminists are 'wrong'?

    Do you think before you type?
    She's very sheltered so dw

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    (Original post by RobML)
    She's very sheltered so dw

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    That's one word for it.
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    (Original post by upperechelon)
    like ok, I don't feel the need to be unnecessarily angry about imaginary prejudices, it doesn't mean you can be so condescending and aggressive towards me. i am constantly harassed about this apparent 'wage gap' and 'rape culture' that plagues me. I know for a fact that the wage gap is due to many reasons aside from 'sexism', and I for one believe, at least in the West, that 'rape culture', which would insinuate rape is celebrated, does not exist to the point where it could be deemed a culture


    Edit- literally all feminists who are 'arguing' with me are being ad hominem and proving my point
    I would say that many feminists would be shocked at the fact that other women wouldn't advocate equal rights amongst genders, seeing as women face more prejudices/discrimination in comparison to men in general. Also even though you argue that there are numerous other reasons besides sexism for the wage gap, in many occupations it is still a factor and so for feminists it is still an issue. Similarly with regards to rape culture, sexism any feminist issues really, you may feel that it doesn't necessarily apply to you, it is possible you haven't experienced some of the forms of discrimination or unequal rights which some feminists are so vocal about, but you can't deny that those issues exist at all. 'Rape culture' encompasses the idea of victim blaming, and the fact that rape and other sexual crimes aren't punished effectively, I believe this is quite prevalent in western society
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    (Original post by upperechelon)
    like ok, I don't feel the need to be unnecessarily angry about imaginary prejudices, it doesn't mean you can be so condescending and aggressive towards me. i am constantly harassed about this apparent 'wage gap' and 'rape culture' that plagues me. I know for a fact that the wage gap is due to many reasons aside from 'sexism', and I for one believe, at least in the West, that 'rape culture', which would insinuate rape is celebrated, does not exist to the point where it could be deemed a culture


    Edit- literally all feminists who are 'arguing' with me are being ad hominem and proving my point
    I don't think direct discrimination is a huge factor (though it could well be non-negligible) in the wage gap, but even so the question to ask is what is causing this gap. Are biological differences alone enough to account for it?

    Many people do take this position that yes, it's just biology causing women on average to make decisions that are less likely to lead to higher wages. However, there doesn't actually seem to be any evidence whatsoever that this is the case, and to me it does seem intuitively very unlikely given all the absurd gender- and sex-based double standards and prejudices that we know to exist.

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    any woman that doesn't care to understand what a feminist is and/or states they aren't one, are very unappreciative of all the women that have fought for us and got us to where we are now. As for the men who aren't feminists, they are merely misogynist
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    (Original post by upperechelon)
    like ok, I don't feel the need to be unnecessarily angry about imaginary prejudices, it doesn't mean you can be so condescending and aggressive towards me. i am constantly harassed about this apparent 'wage gap' and 'rape culture' that plagues me. I know for a fact that the wage gap is due to many reasons aside from 'sexism', and I for one believe, at least in the West, that 'rape culture', which would insinuate rape is celebrated, does not exist to the point where it could be deemed a culture


    Edit- literally all feminists who are 'arguing' with me are being ad hominem and proving my point
    if the rape culture does exist then it only exists in the minds of those that wish its very existence and nothing more
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    Feminism is just plain wrong, its unnaturally going against the laws of nature, ask yourself this, would you educate a girl to be a sexual predator like you would educate a girl to be a feminist, no of course you wouldn't (I know might be fun though ). Point being that most women are not supposed to be sexual predators by nature, the man is (not talking rape/extremes here though). So why don't women push out on this side as well? you'll hardly ever see a women pursue a man for a relationship, initiating contact, etc. Even many feminists that are open to relationships with men probably hypocritically expect the man to do all the initiating & chasing but will become an aggressive feminist if a man mistakenly initiates/pursues her who she is not interested in.

    Feminism I believe has led to the half of women that are fat and the quarter of women that are classed as having mental health issues. Plus of course the rising number of single people in society at just over 50 percent of the population now. Why? - well I believe the male female relationship is not just an intimate one but a reciprocal one, it is a relationship of inter-dependence. Otherwise like some creatures in the wild once mating has been done the mating pair would split up, but we don't unless the interdependence breaks down. Like some other creatures in the wild being interdependent also. The fact that through school and probably also parenting, career is pushed and pregnancy looked down upon this interdependency is broken. Most women though are not naturally programmed to be Independent of men, without that support they develop mental health issues and obesity as they don't know how to cope. They have been psychologically blocked from being dependant on a man and now see the man as competition in the career sense - they are now an opponent to contend with, not a source of support - they have nowhere to get the necessary emotional support from so develop issues.

    Feminism is all about aggressiveness - it can't thrive otherwise - forcing their view on others and trying to intimidate any opposition so they get and maintain dominance. Naturally its the man that is supposed to be dominant, not by choice or in an overbearing way, but most women are programmed for the bloke to lead the way. Now men are being told they shouldn't, women should be able to do their role, etc -then what is the role the man is left to fulfil, often there isn't one, he is redundant and hence why women com[p-lain they can't find a good man because they have taken over many men's roles thereby denying themselves a 'good man'. Feminists mistakenly believe going out to work is a joy - it rarely is, its why many men used to solely or mainly fulfil this function as it was an unappealing position to be in - working for the rest of your life relentlessly until you die or if lucky retire. Breaking away from the mode that existed for hundreds probably thousands of years is a disaster for society, its existed the way it had for a reason, suddenly deciding that in the space of a few decades society can be run differently is just plain stupidity.
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    (Original post by Deerly)
    I would say that many feminists would be shocked at the fact that other women wouldn't advocate equal rights amongst genders, seeing as women face more prejudices/discrimination in comparison to men in general.
    Ok, go on then, list the prejudices/discrimination women experience in the UK/US.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Ok, go on then, list the prejudices/discrimination women experience in the UK/US.
    There are still inequalities in the further education. For example,a study observing the differences in letters of recommendation between the genders showed a distinct difference between the language describing the subject. Women were more often described as 'more communal and less agentic' than their male counterparts and these 'lead to a negative relationship with hiring decisions in academia'. source source source

    In medicine, we also often don't properly educate people on the differences between male and female symptoms. Heart attacks and strokes present themselves differently in women but we hear more often about the symptoms men face because most of our research comes from studying men. Women don't have the classic numb right hand for example. source

    Women are also not prescribed medicine as well as men are and their pain isn't taken as seriously as it is if a man is showing the same symptoms. source. Furthermore, there is a much lower diagnosal rate in women for things such as autism, Aspergers, adhd and other disorders.

    Some other sources if you want to have a look at broader gender differences; gender in education, gender in employment, gender in parenting and gender in interaction.

    That's just a brief overview of some of the issues that are prevalent. However these are often overshadowed with angrier things such as 'free the nipple' etc.

    In my personal experience I have also often noticed that when I was with my ex I tended to be addressed far less. Like when we were at a restaurant the server would present the cheque to my boyfriend even though we always split the bill. People coming up to try and sell us stuff like mobile packages would almost always only look at him with an occasional glance to me. And this wasn't me just being dramatic because he often mentioned it as well.

    All in all, there are definitely issues but they are not obviously extreme as other countries and more come down to implicit biases rather than explicit ones.
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    (Original post by unrealistic)
    There are still inequalities in the further education. For example,a study observing the differences in letters of recommendation between the genders showed a distinct difference between the language describing the subject. Women were more often described as 'more communal and less agentic' than their male counterparts and these 'lead to a negative relationship with hiring decisions in academia'. source source source

    In medicine, we also often don't properly educate people on the differences between male and female symptoms. Heart attacks and strokes present themselves differently in women but we hear more often about the symptoms men face because most of our research comes from studying men. Women don't have the classic numb right hand for example. source

    Women are also not prescribed medicine as well as men are and their pain isn't taken as seriously as it is if a man is showing the same symptoms. source. Furthermore, there is a much lower diagnosal rate in women for things such as autism, Aspergers, adhd and other disorders.

    Some other sources if you want to have a look at broader gender differences; gender in education, gender in employment, gender in parenting and gender in interaction.

    That's just a brief overview of some of the issues that are prevalent. However these are often overshadowed with angrier things such as 'free the nipple' etc.

    In my personal experience I have also often noticed that when I was with my ex I tended to be addressed far less. Like when we were at a restaurant the server would present the cheque to my boyfriend even though we always split the bill. People coming up to try and sell us stuff like mobile packages would almost always only look at him with an occasional glance to me. And this wasn't me just being dramatic because he often mentioned it as well.

    All in all, there are definitely issues but they are not obviously extreme as other countries and more come down to implicit biases rather than explicit ones.
    And now the prejudices/discrimination men experience?
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    And now the prejudices/discrimination men experience?
    That's the issue. Feminism isn't classically men vs women. It's femininity vs masculinity. Masculinity in men is seen as strong, powerful and ideal. Femininty in men is seen as weak and unideal.

    Take for example patenting. A common problem that men face is that they can't get child custody even if the mother is a far inferior parent. The implicit bias in this is that looking after children is a feminine thing so a man cannot embody these traits.

    It goes on to affect men negatively. Men can't be raped. Men can't wear women's clothes. Men can't be nurses. Whatever it is a lot of the time it is drawn from an idea of men being feminine as wrong.


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    (Original post by unrealistic)
    That's the issue. Feminism isn't classically men vs women. It's femininity vs masculinity. Masculinity in men is seen as strong, powerful and ideal. Femininty in men is seen as weak and unideal.

    Take for example patenting. A common problem that men face is that they can't get child custody even if the mother is a far inferior parent. The implicit bias in this is that looking after children is a feminine thing so a man cannot embody these traits.

    It goes on to affect men negatively. Men can't be raped. Men can't wear women's clothes. Men can't be nurses. Whatever it is a lot of the time it is drawn from an idea of men being feminine as wrong.

    So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.
    Because I'm on my mobile not on my computer?? If you want I'll list sources and give more detail after class has finished?? :/

    Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd not be passive aggressive towards me. If you have an issue with what I've said then please outline your complaint rather than hiding behind attitude and superiority. It's a little immature


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    (Original post by unrealistic)
    Because I'm on my mobile not on my computer?? If you want I'll list sources and give more detail after class has finished?? :/

    Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd not be passive aggressive towards me. If you have an issue with what I've said then please outline your complaint rather than hiding behind attitude and superiority. It's a little immature


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    So you complain about a perceived agression, retort with patronization and then call me out on being immature? You really are an interesting one.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So you complain about a perceived agression, retort with patronization and then call me out on being immature? You really are an interesting one.
    Look I really don't want to argue about this. I'm sorry if it came off hypocritical but I just get annoyed when people are passive aggressive. Truce, I'll give a longer response on the men thing later


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    (Original post by unrealistic)
    Look I really don't want to argue about this. I'm sorry if it came off hypocritical but I just get annoyed when people are passive aggressive. Truce, I'll give a longer response on the men thing later
    I didn't intend to come across as aggressive, I was just slightly peeved by the bias. I look forward to your longer response.
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    (Original post by upperechelon)
    first and second wave feminism were respectable causes that were truly about gender equality.
    third wave feminism is a mess.
    second wave feminism was not a respectable cause - Greer and other hate speech merchants are 2nd wave feminists - TERF / 'gender critical' feminism is 2nd wave.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.
    clutching at straws there bro

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