How did Hillary win the first debate?

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by unprinted)
    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    What's your reaction to these two:

    https://www.facebook.com/GavinNewsom...4413500788117/

    https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/781836246314135552
    My reaction is if Gavin Newsom is that alarmed than I should redouble my efforts to get Trump elected.

    Newsom supports sanctuary cities. He is so far left the only city he could be mayor of is frisco or New York. The man is disgusting.

    Nobody reads USAtoday anyway but same answer applies.

    Since you brought up being blind; can you see whats happening to the U.K.? The insanity of Globalization.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Trumps been in business 30 or 40 yrs. and probably paid more in taxes than you or I will ever make.
    Do you know anyone who pays more in taxes than they have to? If you do I would distance myself from them.
    Trump was given more money by his daddy as a 'small loan' than eithrr of us will ever earn in our entire lives, sure he probably will pay more tax as an absolute amount but £100 from someone who earns £1k pm is a lot more than £100 from someone who earns thousands of times more than that, apparently.

    No one is asking him to pay more tax than he owes, just to pay the actual tax bill he has conspired to get out of by hiring financial assistants who can move and hide his money to avoid paying as much tax as possible.

    No doubt you will come up with some total ******** excuse but continue to ignore the fact that the American people could not have picked a worse champion if they tried.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Trump was given more money by his daddy as a 'small loan' than eithrr of us will ever earn in our entire lives, sure he probably will pay more tax as an absolute amount but £100 from someone who earns £1k pm is a lot more than £100 from someone who earns thousands of times more than that, apparently.

    No one is asking him to pay more tax than he owes, just to pay the actual tax bill he has conspired to get out of by hiring financial assistants who can move and hide his money to avoid paying as much tax as possible.

    No doubt you will come up with some total ******** excuse but continue to ignore the fact that the American people could not have picked a worse champion if they tried.
    You indeed are asking him to pay more taxes then he legally owes. You want him to pay the amount of taxes you FEEL he owes . That's not surprising coming from a person who lives in a country where people feel the wealth belongs to the Gov.
    Your saying Trump is guilty of tax evasion which is a crime
    There is no evidence for what your saying. Give it up. You guys are starting to sound like birthers.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Trump was given more money by his daddy as a 'small loan' than eithrr of us will ever earn in our entire lives, sure he probably will pay more tax as an absolute amount but £100 from someone who earns £1k pm is a lot more than £100 from someone who earns thousands of times more than that, apparently.

    No one is asking him to pay more tax than he owes, just to pay the actual tax bill he has conspired to get out of by hiring financial assistants who can move and hide his money to avoid paying as much tax as possible.

    No doubt you will come up with some total ******** excuse but continue to ignore the fact that the American people could not have picked a worse champion if they tried.
    Trump was given a million dollar loan by his father. It didn't go that far in the Manhattan real estate market.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    You indeed are asking him to pay more taxes then he legally owes. You want him to pay the amount of taxes you FEEL he owes . That's not surprising coming from a person who lives in a country where people feel the wealth belongs to the Gov.
    Your saying Trump is guilty of tax evasion which is a crime
    There is no evidence for what your saying. Give it up. You guys are starting to sound like birthers.
    So to get this straight, you think it would be perfectly fair for self-proclaimed billionaire Donald Trump to pay absolutely no income tax for 20 years? You dont thinkmit would be an inconsistent position to then admonish the 'establiahment' for screwing people over with high taxes and low funding when tax avoidance is a huge part of why that hapoens?

    What happens whn poor people avoid taxation: they go to prison.
    What happens when rich peoppe like Trump avoid tax: they are inexplicable lauded as heroes.
    Please tell me you recognise the inconsistency there?

    Trump can end this in an instant, he just has to publish his tax returns. He wont do that though will he?

    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Trump was given a million dollar loan by his father. It didn't go that far in the Manhattan real estate market.
    Oh boo-****ing-hoo. He got a loan worth over 18x the average wage in the US. I feel so sorry for him.
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    Using polls linked by the Breibart and other alt-right sources throws the validity of a poll into serious doubt.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    So to get this straight, you think it would be perfectly fair for self-proclaimed billionaire Donald Trump to pay absolutely no income tax for 20 years? You dont thinkmit would be an inconsistent position to then admonish the 'establiahment' for screwing people over with high taxes and low funding when tax avoidance is a huge part of why that hapoens?

    What happens whn poor people avoid taxation: they go to prison.
    What happens when rich peoppe like Trump avoid tax: they are inexplicable lauded as heroes.
    Please tell me you recognise the inconsistency there?

    Trump can end this in an instant, he just has to publish his tax returns. He wont do that though will he?



    Oh boo-****ing-hoo. He got a loan worth over 18x the average wage in the US. I feel so sorry for him.


    Nobody goes to jail for avoiding taxes but some go to jail for tax evasion. I think it's great trump paid no taxes; more money for the people and less for the gov. and don't forget that trump said he would release returns when hillary released her e-mails.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    Nobody goes to jail for avoiding taxes but some go to jail for tax evasion. I think it's great trump paid no taxes; more money for the people and less for the gov. and don't forget that trump said he would release returns when hillary released her e-mails.
    That wasn't because he was a smart businessman. He paid no taxes because he made an operating loss of almost a billion dollars.

    He's not paying less tax because he's some sort of clever strategist. He's paying no tax because he's so bad at business and the government doesn't want to punish him even more. Or more accurately they don't want to cause unemployment for his workers if he goes under because of the taxes.

    The fact that Trump has the gall to complain about "third world infrastructure" when he hasn't paid a cent in income taxes for over a decade is incredible.
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    (Original post by Fango_Jett)
    That wasn't because he was a smart businessman. He paid no taxes because he made an operating loss of almost a billion dollars.

    He's not paying less tax because he's some sort of clever strategist. He's paying no tax because he's so bad at business and the government doesn't want to punish him even more. Or more accurately they don't want to cause unemployment for his workers if he goes under because of the taxes.

    The fact that Trump has the gall to complain about "third world infrastructure" when he hasn't paid a cent in income taxes for over a decade is incredible.
    To even think the Gov. even considers not punishing him more or that they don't want to cause more unemployment is laughable.
    Trump simply used the tax laws as they are written. Now, who wrote those laws?
    That's right. The Gov. wrote those laws. One thing the Gov. is careful to not do is screw itself out of money. We take in around 4 trillion dollars every year. Trumps few millions won't be missed. You should stop thinking it's a big deal.
    Hillaty is the only one making a stink about and she's a left wing piece of ==== anyway. You don't hear other Dems making any noise because rhey have done the same thing. I know how you socialist types hate rich people and capitalism but to do what Trump has done is brilliant. He's going to make a great President.
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    (Original post by oldercon1953)
    To even think the Gov. even considers not punishing him more or that they don't want to cause more unemployment is laughable.
    Trump simply used the tax laws as they are written. Now, who wrote those laws?
    That's right. The Gov. wrote those laws. One thing the Gov. is careful to not do is screw itself out of money. We take in around 4 trillion dollars every year. Trumps few millions won't be missed. You should stop thinking it's a big deal.
    Hillaty is the only one making a stink about and she's a left wing piece of ==== anyway. You don't hear other Dems making any noise because rhey have done the same thing. I know how you socialist types hate rich people and capitalism but to do what Trump has done is brilliant. He's going to make a great President.
    It's not. They don't want to drive businesses under and force Trump to sell off assets and hotels to make sure he a tax bill. It would be counterproductive to economic growth. All those workers at his hotels would be out of jobs by him selling of properties to pay a tax bill.


    Trump hasn't done anything brilliant despite what you might delude yourself into. He's a **** businessman who keeps himself afloat by tax laws that are skewed for the benefit of the very rich.

    It is unfair that a normal middle class unemployed person cannot declare a "loss" that they carry over for subsequent years. Trump has been kept afloat by a broken US tax system for years. Such are the outcomes when income from capital and labour are taxed very differently.
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    (Original post by Fango_Jett)
    It's not. They don't want to drive businesses under and force Trump to sell off assets and hotels to make sure he a tax bill. It would be counterproductive to economic growth. All those workers at his hotels would be out of jobs by him selling of properties to pay a tax bill.


    Trump hasn't done anything brilliant despite what you might delude yourself into. He's a **** businessman who keeps himself afloat by tax laws that are skewed for the benefit of the very rich.

    It is unfair that a normal middle class unemployed person cannot declare a "loss" that they carry over for subsequent years. Trump has been kept afloat by a broken US tax system for years. Such are the outcomes when income from capital and labour are taxed very differently.
    You can't really be that naive. The I.R.S (collections). doesn't concern itself with economic growth. They collect taxes owed and enforce the tax laws and don't hesitate to shut down a business that doesn't comply.
    It's clear you know nothing of Trumps accomplishments. You've painted him an evil billionaire and are attempting to persuade others that he is something he is not.
    In my opinion, few people who have done what he has in so short a time could stand up to the level of scrutiny he has undergone.
    Your last paragraph makes no sense. An unemployed person would owe no taxes.
    Keep in mind that there are a lot of other taxes besides fed income tax and Trump has paid those.
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    (Original post by KittyKF)
    Idiots... The Independent is the most trustworthy as it doesn't have any ties to massive polictical parties -_-
    Independent is blantatly against trump.
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    All these articles basically comment that online polls declared Trump the winner, whereas ones conducted by actually polling agencies said Clinton. Online polls aren't valid as evidence as you can vote in them multiple times and there is no verification of who has voted in them.
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    (Original post by DoodleDee)
    Alright, if you're going by polls alone, CNN reported that Clinton still won, based on the viewers that watched the debate.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/27/po...p-debate-poll/

    You do realised DM is one of the most biased sources. And in all honesty, any poll that Trump won would be from people who didn't watch the debate and are following Trump blindly. If we're talking this particular debate and this debate only, anyone with half a brain would conclude Clinton won.
    Claims the DM is unreliable (which it is), but then sources CNN, because we all know the Clinton News Network is unbiased. :rolleyes:

    CNN were caught out directing people what to say following the second debate.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    All these articles basically comment that online polls declared Trump the winner, whereas ones conducted by actually polling agencies said Clinton. Online polls aren't valid as evidence as you can vote in them multiple times and there is no verification of who has voted in them.
    Have you watched the live poll FoxNews carried out after the second debate? Their journalist asked who thought Trump had satisfied more and almost all the people put their hand up.

    He won.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Have you watched the live poll FoxNews carried out after the second debate? Their journalist asked who thought Trump had satisfied more and almost all the people put their hand up.

    He won.
    Do you mean Frank Luntz's focus group? If so, then yes, that's a proper scientific study which can be taken seriously, and yes, Luntz's group did suggest a win for Trump. Indeed, they were one of the reasons why some people were initially unsure how to call the debate. But focus groups invariably have a smaller sample size than full-scale polls, and the latter, when they were released, indicated a Clinton win.

    If that's not what you mean, then could you provide a link to what you're talking about? Though right off the bat I should note that simply telling an audience to raise their hands is not a particularly effective polling method.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Claims the DM is unreliable (which it is), but then sources CNN, because we all know the Clinton News Network is unbiased. :rolleyes:
    CNN carried out a genuine, scientific poll. The DM article cited online click-polls. Regardless of who carried it out or published it, the former has value and the latter have virtually none.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Have you watched the live poll FoxNews carried out after the second debate? Their journalist asked who thought Trump had satisfied more and almost all the people put their hand up.

    He won.
    You're not seriously putting forward that as proof are you? A room full of Fox News viewers declared the republican nominee the winner, in other news bears **** in the woods.

    Polls done by organisations such as Gallup actually have merit as they try and actually get a sample that is sufficient to actually represent the country in terms of size and demographic. A roomful of people with the means, opportunity and desire to sit in a politics show done by Fox News is not representative of the whole nation.
 
 
 
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