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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So why should voters get punished just because they live in a highly populated state?
    It's to stop liberals with their high-population states from skewing the election.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Don't tell me, my choice of wording offends you? Did it violate your safe space?
    Also genuinely interested to know what you thought of Sanders? Even if you disagree with what he stood for do you not respect how he actually stands for something rather than the hollowness of Clinton?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    That's not political discourse. That's insulting the electorate. A radical idea, but liberals could try and allay immigration fears, debate why it's worth immigration is worth it, and cut out the condescending insults. And so forth with other political issues.
    I did read what you said. Nothing of any substance. Even your explanation makes no sense. Millennials favouring Clinton prove jack, just as the war-protesting, tree-hugging hippies voting for Carter proved jack.
    And people never once pointed to the positive effects of immigration in the referendum? All they did was "but racist, shut up"? So you want people to not say the truth? You dismiss others as condescending just because you don't like being called out for what you are - a racist?

    I never said it is "proving" anything. I said that in decades to come someone like Trump will never be voted in.

    And look who is being condescending now. Add hypocrite to the list of your many flaws.
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    It's to stop liberals with their high-population states from skewing the election.
    So as long as something is bad for liberals, it's good?

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Don't tell me, my choice of wording offends you? Did it violate your safe space?
    Your personality.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So as long as something is bad for liberals, it's good?

    :rolleyes:
    Usually, yes.
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Usually, yes.
    You must be fun to hang out with.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Also genuinely interested to know what you thought of Sanders? Even if you disagree with what he stood for do you not respect how he actually stands for something rather than the hollowness of Clinton?
    Yeah definitely. He would have beaten Trump. An anti-establishment figure promising to shake up the system, but with far fewer questionable characteristics and scandals. Was quite disappointed though how quickly and easily he fell in line and supported Clinton after failing to get the nomination.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    And people never once pointed to the positive effects of immigration in the referendum? All they did was "but racist, shut up"? So you want people to not say the truth? You dismiss others as condescending just because you don't like being called out for what you are - a racist?

    I never said it is "proving" anything. I said that in decades to come someone like Trump will never be voted in.

    And look who is being condescending now. Add hypocrite to the list of your many flaws.
    Again, your missing the point. It's not one or the other. Unfortunately in the referendum is was too much belittling and insults from the left, and not enough positive arguments. And even the arguments offered didn't actually address the main issues- of regulated immigration and strain on social services.
    But whatever, continue doubling down on what made Remain lose. As even super liberal Bill Maher had recognised, the left cried wolf too much with the racism card. It loses meaning and impact when you throw it around so casually. Now when the left use it, most swing voters just roll their eyes.

    How am I being condescending? Do you find logical arguments too condescending? Is that why you only resort to petty insults?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Your personality.
    What a crap post. Anyway...
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    I don't believe in democracy, but even the masses, like a broken clock, can be right once in a while.

    I would favour a benevolent dictatorship, but one led by a hard right-winger who would deport illegal immigrants, defend our culture and crush the Marxists infiltrating and subverting our society.
    If a right wing society was really that great you'd be able to sell it to us on its own merits without all the ridiculous reds under the bed stuff.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    What a crap post. Anyway...
    I answered your question.

    Don't blame me for your *****y question.
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    ''until voters become better educated.''
    Maybe your the ones that needs educating. How arrogant can you be? People wont stand for this false equality gap people are exaggerating. Clinton would have put 'safe areas' for LTGB people to cry in. Grow up.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    If a right wing society was really that great you'd be able to sell it to us on its own merits without all the ridiculous reds under the bed stuff.
    Human beings are irrational, so it's much easier to scaremonger them into it.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Again, your missing the point. It's not one or the other. Unfortunately in the referendum is was too much belittling and insults from the left, and not enough positive arguments. And even the arguments offered didn't actually address the main issues- of regulated immigration and strain on social services.
    But whatever, continue doubling down on what made Remain lose. As even super liberal Bill Maher had recognised, the left cried wolf too much with the racism card. It loses meaning and impact when you throw it around so casually. Now when the left use it, most swing voters just roll their eyes.

    How am I being condescending? Do you find logical arguments too condescending? Is that why you only resort to petty insults?
    There were enough positive arguments, as I repeatedly said that pandering to racists ideas just to get votes is not something that should be done, or you are just violating your own principles.

    What you don't understand is that the "right" are just a bunch of whiny crybabies, oh boohoo our lives suck so much, oh boohoo they are calling us racist, oh boohoo I wanna be able to insult anyone, etc.

    "Strain on social services" - final straw for me, one of the main arguments was just that, that immigration is a net contributor to said services. What you fail to see is that people want their biases and prejudices confirmed, so when someone like Trump comes along and says all that, or if someone like Farage or Johnson comes along and tells people oh no, outside the EU we can give the NHS 350m then that is all they will hear.

    What's ironic is that you most likely consider yourself as intelligent, yet you fail to see past your own prejudices, even after they have been pointed out to you multiple times. Done wasting my time.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I answered your question.

    Don't blame me for your *****y question.
    You didn't. 'Your personality' is a crap answer, and much like everything you say, makes little sense in context of what you highlighted.
    This has grown tiresome. If you have anything of substance to add, or actually want to debate real issues, then by all means.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    too much belittling and insults from the left, and not enough positive arguments.
    Here is a list of all the insults hurled by Trump on Twitter alone since declaring his candidacy. 282 targets, 4000 tweets, 1 in every 8 tweets made contained a personal insult of some kind.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ults.html?_r=0

    Why is the left and centre held to high moral standards but the right can get away with murder?

    In the spoiler is just 3/4 of the insults levelled against Hillary Clinton, which maxes out TSR's character limit...

    Spoiler:
    Show



    Recently insulted:















    DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES

    Hillary ClintonDEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“FAILED ALL OVER THE WORLD”“loves to lie”“She'll say anything and change NOTHING!”“Crooked”“a Wall Street PUPPET!”“has never created a job in her life”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a foreign policy DISASTER”“you have failed, failed, and failed”“no solutions, no ideas, no credibility”“too weak to lead”“the most corrupt person to ever run for the presidency of the United States”“If we let Crooked run the govt, history will remember 2017 as the year America lost its independence”“So CROOKED”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Such a dishonest person”“crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“SO CORRUPT!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“should be in jail”“Crooked”“PAY TO PLAY POLITICS”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Fraud”“Crooked”“disgraceful behavior”“unfit to run”“Crooked”“Hypocrite”“Hypocrite!”“nothing Hillary has said about her secret server has been true”“there's never been anything like your lies”“If I win-I am going to instruct my AG to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation”“Crooked”“has only created jobs at the FBI and DOJ!”“Crooked”“Owned by Wall St and Politicians”“Crooked”“nasty to Sanders supporters behind closed doors”“Crooked”“Crooked”“suffers from BAD JUDGEMENT!”“Crooked”“terrible!”“not getting the job done”“failing for 30 years”“Crooked”“failed all over the world”“a typical politician”“all talk, no action”“taking the day off again, she needs the rest”“puts the plane behind her like I have been doing from the beginning”“copying my airplane rallies”“Crooked”“Crooked”“said horrible things about my supporters”“SO INSULTING to my supporters”“Crooked”“very dumb”“Unfit to serve as #POTUS”“totally confused”“just gave a disastrous news conference”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“doesn't have the strength or the stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”“doesn't have the drive or stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”“Crooked”“has BAD JUDGEMENT”“brainpower is highly overrated, decision making is so bad”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“called African-American youth “SUPER PREDATORS””“will NEVER be able to solve the problems of poverty, education and safety”“Crooked”“SABOTAGE OF THE INNER CITIES”“CORRUPTION”“only knows how to make a speech when it is a hit on me”“No policy”“using the oldest play in the Dem playbook”“all talk and NO ACTION!”“using race-baiting”“pandering to the worst instincts in our society”“She should be ashamed of herself!”“crooked”“fear-mongering!”“lies”“LIE!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not a talented person or politician”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not fit to be our next president!”“Anybody whose mind 'SHORT CIRCUITS' is not fit to be our president! Look up the word 'BRAINWASHED.”“Crooked”“Very dangerous!”“bad judgment”“unfit to serve as President”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!”“100% owned by her donors”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“has very small and unenthusiastic crowds in Pennsylvania”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a formula for disaster!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“extraordinarily bad judgement & insticts”“a lose cannon”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“very long and very boring speech”“Crooked”“Crooked”“no one has worse judgement”“corruption and devastation follows her”“owned by Wall Street!”“unfit to lead the country”“Crooked”“wants to flood our country with Syrian immigrants that we know little or nothing about”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a liar!”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Crooked”“betrayed Bernie voters”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“judgement so bad”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not at all loyal”“Crooked”“Crooked”“BAD JUDGEMENT”“Crooked”“killed jobs!”“Crooked”“destroyed jobs and manufacturing”“Against steelworkers and miners”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“look at all of the bad decisions she has made”“Crooked”“led Obama into bad decisions!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“bought and paid for by Wall Street, lobbyists and special interests”“will sell our country down the tubes!”“has made so many mistakes”“Crooked”“a DISASTER on foreign policy”“embarrassed herself and the country with her e-mail lies”“Crooked”“Crooked”“email lies”“negative ads are not true”“Crooked”“fraudulent”“Having ZERO impact”“Crooked”“Sad!!”“Crooked”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“not qualified”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not qualified!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“WEAK leadership”“Crooked”“lies”“Lyin' Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“sooooo guilty”“lied to the FBI and to the people of our country”“dishonest”“Crooked”“very bad judgement”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Not fit!”“Her temperament is weak”“BAD JUDGEMENT!”“unfit to serve as President”“Crooked”“Crooked”“As usual, bad judgment.”“A total disgrace!”“Crooked”“guilty as hell”“will NEVER be able to handle the complexities and danger of ISIS”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“As Bernie Sanders said, Hillary Clinton has bad judgement. Bill's meeting was probably initiated and demanded by Hillary!”“sellng out America”“Not capable!”“Presidency would be catastrophic”“bad judgment”“ill-fit”“Crooked”“Lying”“Crooked”“Crooked”“such bad judgement”“no sense of markets”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Disgraceful!”“bad judgement”“Crooked”“All talk, no action!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“would be a disaster”“may be the most corrupt person ever to seek the presidency”“Crooked”“will be a disaster for jobs and the economy!”“dangerous”“defrauded America”“Corrupt”“dishonest”“judgement has killed thousands, unleashed ISIS and wrecked the economy”“Crooked”“bad judgment”“failed policies”“Crooked”“totally unfit to be our president”“really bad judgement and a temperament”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“will be a disaster”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“total fraud!”“Crooked”“record is so bad, unable to answer tough questions!”“Crooked”“very bad and destructive track record”“unfit to be president”“poor leadership skills”“bad judgement”“Crooked”“Not honest!”“Reading poorly from the telepromter!”“Crooked”“Bad performance”“doesn't even look presidential!”“no longer has credibility”“too much failure in office”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“has made so many mistakes”“BAD judgement!”“Crooked”“zero natural talent”“Crooked”“decision making ability-zilch!”“temperament is bad”


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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Human beings are irrational, so it's much easier to scaremonger them into it.
    I don't disagree, but please, try me with the rational argument. It would be a breath of fresh air from the right.
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    lol whoever said that democracy shouldn't exist until voters are better educated - hillary voters are by FAR the most unintelligent, simply for supporting a crooked, corporatist, scheming, corrupt, warmongering, nepotistic cyborg like clinton. they were supporting a candidate that engendered EVERYTHING THEY DISLIKED. the fact that she had a vagina is ****ing irrelevant. identity politics is dead. we're all equal now. as soon as a GOOD female candidate comes along, THEN we will have a female prsident. but you CANNOT argue, essentially, that she should have won because of her gender. and before you think that I'm setting up a strawman, WHAT ELSE did she have in her favour?! also, to those that think that clinton's lack of election is a mark of sexism, how on earth is it NOT sexist to NOT vote for trump because he isn't a woman?!
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    There were enough positive arguments, as I repeatedly said that pandering to racists ideas just to get votes is not something that should be done, or you are just violating your own principles.
    Such as?
    This is like talking to a brick wall. There's no hope for you if you think that trying to win over swing voters and addressing their concerns is pandering to racists. Such a flippant attitude is precisely why Remain lost. Having concerns about immigration, or wanting to control it, is not racist. Stop crying wolf.


    (Original post by yudothis)
    What you don't understand is that the "right" are just a bunch of whiny crybabies, oh boohoo our lives suck so much, oh boohoo they are calling us racist, oh boohoo I wanna be able to insult anyone, etc.
    I didn't vote remain, I'm not the one whining about anything. I'm telling you why your side lost the referendum and why Leave voters voted the way they did. What you do with that information doesn't bother me in the slightest, but clearly you're going with the 'stick fingers in ears and shout down the other side' approach which has clearly served the left so well recently...

    (Original post by yudothis)
    "Strain on social services" - final straw for me, one of the main arguments was just that, that immigration is a net contributor to said services. What you fail to see is that people want their biases and prejudices confirmed, so when someone like Trump comes along and says all that, or if someone like Farage or Johnson comes along and tells people oh no, outside the EU we can give the NHS 350m then that is all they will hear.
    No it wasn't. Christ, you don't even know your own side's argument. The argument was that apparently (via a study that made a lot of assumptions and was ultimately funded by the EU) immigration is a net benefit to the UK's public purse based solely on a taxes minus state welfare calculation. That's a completely different issue to whether or not they are a strain on social services.

    (Original post by yudothis)
    What's ironic is that you most likely consider yourself as intelligent, yet you fail to see past your own prejudices, even after they have been pointed out to you multiple times. Done wasting my time.
    You say flatly that all Brexit voters are racist but I'm the prejudiced one?
 
 
 
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