intellectual snobbery? Watch

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Sickminded
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#121
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if the story doesnt include steak, a 40oz of ghetto liquor, and fiiine women.... then the literature isnt worth the reading.....
LOL
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ixivxivi
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#122
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(Original post by Sickminded)
if the story doesnt include steak, a 40oz of ghetto liquor, and fiiine women.... then the literature isnt worth the reading.....
LOL
Daniel Deronda has fiiine women, probably someone eats steak at some point, and there's references to alcohol (probably [though I may be imagining/misremembering] at some point in cliched poor-people ghettoes :p:). Happy? Now, go read.
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sammyrj
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#123
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I think the problem I have is that despite not showing off at all, any intellectual input I have into a conversation is replied to with "Alright, we can't all get into bloody Cambridge". Whether in jest or not, responses like that just wind me up, as I feel like I'm not allowed to share my opinion or insight.

I'm starting not to care though. Slowly I've learned that actually I can have a bit of fun with people by being a little bit more of a smartarse, and they seem to find it funny I think the thing to remember is that you can't please everyone; if you put a few people's noses out of joint... so what? There's nothing wrong with being good at what you're good at, and appreciating it.

The key is seeing the line between being aware of your ability, and being an obnoxious ****.
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Sickminded
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#124
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(Original post by ixivxivi)
Daniel Deronda has fiiine women, probably someone eats steak at some point, and there's references to alcohol (probably [though I may be imagining/misremembering] at some point in cliched poor-people ghettoes :p:). Happy? Now, go read.
I think the last intellectual work I read was, "contemporary sociological theory".... that was just cuz it fell off my cabinet:confused:
yum, fine women and fine wine...two great combos!
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aspiringlawyer
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#125
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
Does anyone find they are accused of this/worry they are guilty of this/find this widespread in the 'oxbridge' culture?

I notice with a lot of my friends that even though we share a genuine interest in reading books & literature, when I talk about what I would call 'academic' like using words like intertextuality or narrative structure to talk about a book I like they zone out. and people think im a geek for liking reading books about critical theory

thats fine with me, but what I find difficult is how its a no-go area to say 'youre not interested in academic thinking or looking at or reading literature in an academic way.' even though a lot of people I talk to are dismissive of books or poetry all together because they assume theyre not clever enough or they accuse it of not having an exciting plot/not being written in a way they can understand. my experience of a lot of people my age (18) and young people is they dont try to understand this phenomenon called 'academia' but then form a rather hostile attitude to 'academics' and talk about 'clever' and 'not clever' people in terms of 'us' and 'them'

I have to say, having grown up in oxford I do find something rather self satisfied in academics and self-congratulatoriness (if thats a word) w regards to peoples own intelligence or academic achievement. I worry that I am becoming prone to this sort of snobbery as Ive developped my intellectual abilities- I want to be interested in academia and using critical awareness when reading for its own sake, not to feel selg-important

what do people think?

To be honest OP, you have come across as extremely preoccupied with the idea of your intelligence - its almost as if you think your massive intellect is actually becoming a barrier preventing you from being truly understood by the uneducated masses. Unless you're Steven Hawking, I seriously doubt that.

I mean why did you even bother posting this thread in the 'Oxbridge' forum?Your thread had relatively little to do with Oxbridge


The point I'm making is not about the 'rules' of posting in TSR, but rather what your choice of place to air your feelings on this matter says about you. Several other forums would have been far more appropriate (how about Health and Relationships, seeing as your huge IQ is preventing you from forming proper relationships), but you chose the Oxbridge forum.

Why?

I suspect because you feel the need to have your ego massaged and convene with others whilst you bemoan the burden of such massive intelligence. Get over yourself.
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Captain Biggles
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#126
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
what do people think?
Not everything boils down to academia, although for you the majority of your interests obviously lean quite heavily towards that 'world'. By the sounds of things, not to sound harsh here or anything, you do view yourself as a cut above the rest. However, you'll have to realise eventually that, although you may have your abilities in academia, it's not everything and you'll have to have a life outside of the 'classroom'. Although, perhaps these friends you have won't meet your expectations as you progress through education.

And you will find people who are hostile towards academics, but only because academics, or those who have a degree under their belt, tend to be the most successful.

I'm gonna sound like a right snob.
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aspiringlawyer
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
I think the particular experience I had which triggered this was that one of my friends is a very muddled irrational person and she likes to think shes 'academic' because she likes reading (which she does) but shes clearly not interested academic discussion-I've seen that on many occasions.
Conclusive proof that you are a COMPLETE intellectual snob.

'likes to think she is intellectual'.

Since when does having an Oxbridge offer/going to Oxbridge ( I forget what stage you're at) qualify you to decide whether your peers are academic or not. What a ridiculously snobby judgment. That statement illustrates why people seem riled when you talk all akademik like to dem, y'get me?

General rule: People don't like being patronised.
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by sammyrj)
I think the problem I have is that despite not showing off at all, any intellectual input I have into a conversation is replied to with "Alright, we can't all get into bloody Cambridge". Whether in jest or not, responses like that just wind me up, as I feel like I'm not allowed to share my opinion or insight.

I'm starting not to care though. Slowly I've learned that actually I can have a bit of fun with people by being a little bit more of a smartarse, and they seem to find it funny I think the thing to remember is that you can't please everyone; if you put a few people's noses out of joint... so what? There's nothing wrong with being good at what you're good at, and appreciating it.

The key is seeing the line between being aware of your ability, and being an obnoxious ****.
Yes.
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by aspiringlawyer)
Conclusive proof that you are a COMPLETE intellectual snob.

'likes to think she is intellectual'.

Since when does having an Oxbridge offer/going to Oxbridge ( I forget what stage you're at) qualify you to decide whether your peers are academic or not. What a ridiculously snobby judgment. That statement illustrates why people seem riled when you talk all akademik like to dem, y'get me?

General rule: People don't like being patronised.
That's a load of rubbish, people say that sort of thing all the time without Oxbridge offers. My little brother tells his friends how I "like to think [I'm] something special, someone who thinks they're going places, one of the smartest people in the country."

He does not have an Oxbridge offer. Being 14, amongst other things.
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llys
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That's a completely different situation though. ButterflyGirl thinks she's more intellectual than her friend, while your brother just thinks being intellectual is uncool.
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by llys)
That's a completely different situation though. ButterflyGirl thinks she's more intellectual than her friend, while your brother just thinks being intellectual is uncool.
Hmm, perhaps. But if she is more intellectual than her friend, it's not her fault. And it's not as though she chastises her friend for it - I mean, I know I'm more intelligent than all my friends, but I don't make anything of it. A couple of them 'like to think they're academic, because they like reading' and stuff, and it's true, it does annoy me when they take the piss out of others who don't read, and look down on people, and think they're all cultured and whatnot, but I don't say anything. The OP does have a point, though. I wouldn't say she's being a snob at all, she just needs to teach herself to put up with other people's flaws, as she's bound to have some herself.
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by llys)
That's a completely different situation though. ButterflyGirl thinks she's more intellectual than her friend, while your brother just thinks being intellectual is uncool.
Ha ha, well that's how it seems, reading what my brother said, but he actually thinks he's really smart, much smarter than me, because he got 6-6-6 in his SATs, which is what I got. (He found out a few days ago). The difference is, which he doesn't know, that these are his year 9 SATs - Mine were the year 6 ones. The point is, he felt in a position to comment on my intellect, and isn't considered to be a snob, or worthy of judging anything.
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llys
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Oh OK LOL. He's probably jealous.
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Zoedotdot
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#134
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(Original post by Greatleysteg)
That's a load of rubbish, people say that sort of thing all the time without Oxbridge offers. My little brother tells his friends how I "like to think [I'm] something special, someone who thinks they're going places, one of the smartest people in the country."

He does not have an Oxbridge offer. Being 14, amongst other things.
I think people feel patronised more often if it comes from someone with an Oxbridge offer. My mum told me that I had to stop talking about my Cambridge offer earlier in the year because it was making people uncomfortable, while my boyfriend talking about his LIPA offer (Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts) constantly just makes people smile benevolently and say "well done". It irritates me that because my dream was Cambridge, I'm less entitled to talk about how happy my offer has made me and how great it'll be if I meet it than some of my friends whose dreams were Oxford Brookes or Warwick. But I suppose that's British culture

OP - I don't think you are intellectually snobbish, but people can feel put down just by someone who is intelligent and who shows it. Although one thing I will say is that preferring to approach books emotionally rather than from a perspective of critical theory isn't really a bad thing at all - that's what they're written for isn't it?
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aspiringlawyer
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(Original post by Greatleysteg)
That's a load of rubbish, people say that sort of thing all the time without Oxbridge offers.
What's your point?

My point is that the OP does have an Oxbridge offer and has demonstrated through her multiple inane postings that in some way she thinks it makes her better qualified to judge the level of others intellectualism and academicness (if either of those two are proper words).

That's stupid, plain wrong and will get her nowhere in life, if people feel she is lording it over them due to this.

She's not the only person in the world with an offer of Oxford y'know.
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faber niger
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(Original post by Greatleysteg)
That's a load of rubbish, people say that sort of thing all the time without Oxbridge offers. My little brother tells his friends how I "like to think [I'm] something special, someone who thinks they're going places, one of the smartest people in the country."

He does not have an Oxbridge offer. Being 14, amongst other things.
:p: What people think is rarely indicative of the truth. Though you may, indeed, be; I'm in no position to judge.

What I do want to say, however, is that the two institutions of Oxford and Cambridge are given much more esteem by the public at large than they perhaps deserve, and this, I believe, may create a dangerous self-fulfilling prophecy, thereby diminishing the efforts of those at other universities, less illustrious. When I applied for Oxford (I didn't get an interview, as my attained grades weren't up to it, but I was insubordinate nonetheless) my family were so excited at the prospect that I could be going to... Oxford. However, they showed little enthusiasm when I was finally given offers at other universities (some with perhaps 'better' reputations than my chosen university of Manchester). Such a prejudice, I believe without having done a representative survey, is held by a large swathe of the population. This selfsame swathe will to some extent include employers, and thus oftentimes, or sometimes, prejudice (rather than true, objective judgement, which I advocate) may afflict hard-working students at other universities.

Of course, I recognise that the teaching quality at Oxbridge is of a quality rarely surpassed, with the such resources as the tutorial system at hand, as well as the wide range of high-quality extra-curricular activities on offer. However, the work of a university student is, to a large extent, independent in its nature. And as such one's university can only dictate one's academic standing to a very vicarious and peripheral degree.

I accept that there are most probably a great many more students who revel in academia at Oxbridge than at supposedly lesser institutions. But what we should remember is that roughly 90% of Oxbridge students come from a middle-class background, 50% from private schools: this is highly representative of society at large. I do not want to get into a debate regarding the hypothesised (not by myself, though) superior potential of the middle class. What I shall say, though, is that these statistics tacitly show that Oxbridge is not attainable for everyone who is of the intelligence perhaps to achieve well there, for a great many reasons. And thus a position that Oxbridge -- and by association all students thereat -- is absolutely at the top of the academic hierarchy is not a very tenable one. I recommend that we should accept the very real achievements of those at these two universities; we should not, however, judge these achievements by a scale different from that of others students. There are a great many ambitious students out there, as there are a great many with little or no ambition, and we should not create an educational apartheid, based on aristocratic undertones.

(Wow, that was quite an essay! )
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searchingforeudaimonia
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(Original post by Aconite)
This.

Personally, I think you do sound a bit self-congratulatory. Yes, you're probably very intelligent and whatnot, but you seem a bit keen to rub it in people's faces. The more you learn, the more you ought to realise you DON'T know.
"The more you learn, the more you ought to realise you DON'T know."

"As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance"
John A. Wheeler


sorry had to

xxx
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Greatleysteg
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(Original post by jismith1989)
:p: What people think is rarely indicative of the truth. Though you may, indeed, be; I'm in no position to judge.

What I do want to say, however, is that the two institutions of Oxford and Cambridge are given much more esteem by the public at large than they perhaps deserve, and this, I believe, may create a dangerous self-fulfilling prophecy, thereby diminishing the efforts of those at other universities, less illustrious. When I applied for Oxford (I didn't get an interview, as my attained grades weren't up to it, but I was insubordinate nonetheless) my family were so excited at the prospect that I could be going to... Oxford. However, they showed little enthusiasm when I was finally given offers at other universities (some with perhaps 'better' reputations than my chosen university of Manchester). Such a prejudice, I believe without having done a representative survey, is held by a large swathe of the population. This selfsame swathe will to some extent include employers, and thus oftentimes, or sometimes, prejudice (rather than true, objective judgement, which I advocate) may afflict hard-working students at other universities.

Of course, I recognise that the teaching quality at Oxbridge is of a quality rarely surpassed, with the such resources as the tutorial system at hand, as well as the wide range of high-quality extra-curricular activities on offer. However, the work of a university student is, to a large extent, independent in its nature. And as such one's university can only dictate one's academic standing to a very vicarious and peripheral degree.

I accept that there are most probably a great many more students who revel in academia at Oxbridge than at supposedly lesser institutions. But what we should remember is that roughly 90% of Oxbridge students come from a middle-class background, 50% from private schools: this is highly representative of society at large. I do not want to get into a debate regarding the hypothesised (not by myself, though) superior potential of the middle class. What I shall say, though, is that these statistics tacitly show that Oxbridge is not attainable for everyone who is of the intelligence perhaps to achieve well there, for a great many reasons. And thus a position that Oxbridge -- and by association all students thereat -- is absolutely at the top of the academic hierarchy is not a very tenable one. I recommend that we should accept the very real achievements of those at these two universities; we should not, however, judge these achievements by a scale different from that of others students. There are a great many ambitious students out there, as there are a great many with little or no ambition, and we should not create an educational apartheid, based on aristocratic undertones.

(Wow, that was quite an essay! )
I agree with what you've said, but it's completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.


off topic, do you have blond hair, and are you registered on Yougofurther? :p:
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Sirocco11
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Standing ovation jismith1989 !
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faber niger
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(Original post by Greatleysteg)
I agree with what you've said, but it's completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.


off topic, do you have blond hair, and are you registered on Yougofurther? :p:
I don't see it as being irrelevant; it may be slightly peripheral, but nonetheless would you not agree that my argument that Oxbridge is unduly given too much (prejudice-based) academic standing strongly relates to intellectual snobbery, the topic at hand?

And, no, I'm not Aryan, I'm afraid, and I never bothered with that YouGoFurther thing!
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