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    oh be quiet you gimp.

    Take a look at this then; maybe its more convincing:
    1.You are Jewish if you come from Judea
    2.you are Jewish is your mother is Jewish even if you hold no belief.
    3. N.B "secular Jews," those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense.

    And no, i was not refering to hasidic Jews although their excellent dress does tend to mark them out as Jews.

    [I]Jew is a term used in a wide number of ways, but generally refering to either a follower of the Jewish faith, a child of a Jewish mother, or a member of the Jewish culture For other uses of culture see Culture (disambiguation).


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The word culture comes from the Latin root colere, (to inhabit, to cultivate, or to honor). In general it refers to human activity; different definitions of culture reflect different theories for understanding, or criteria for valuing, human activity. In 1952 Alfred Kroeber and Clyde Kluckhohn compiled a list of over 200 different definitions of culture in their book, Culture: A Critical Review of Concepts and Definitions.
    ..... Click the link for more information. or ethnicity

    ethnic group
    Ethnicity is the cultural characteristics that connect a particular group or groups of people to each other.

    "Ethnicity" is sometimes used as a euphemism for "race", or as a synonym for minority group.

    While ethnicity and race are related concepts, the concept of ethnicity is rooted in the idea of societal groups, marked especially by shared nationality, tribal afilliation, religious faith, shared language, or cultural and traditional origins and backgrounds, whereas race is rooted in the idea of biological classification of homo sapiens to subspecies according to morphological features such as skin color or facial characteristics.
    ..... Click the link for more information. . This article discusses Jews as an ethnic group


    ethnicity
    An ethnic group is a group of people who identify with one another, or are so identified by others, on the basis of either presumed cultural or biological similarities, or both. Like race and nation, the notion of ethnicity developed in the context of European colonial expansion, when mercantilism and capitalism were promoting global movements of populations at the
    ..... Click the link for more information. ; for a consideration of the religion, please refer to Judaism

    For a discussion of Jews as an ethnicity or ethnic group see the article on Jew.
    Judaism is the religion and culture of the Jewish people and the first recorded monotheistic faith. The tenets and history of Judaism constitute the historical foundation of many other religions, including Christianity and Islam.


    Introduction Rabbinical View
    Judaism believes that God created the world for the purpose of having people upon whom to bestow kindness. He gave mankind commandments in order that they should deserve the kindness he bestows and that it not be charity.
    ..... Click the link for more information. .
    In an ethnic sense, the Jews are members of the people, or a nation A nation is a group of people sharing aspects of their language, culture and/or ethnicity.

    The name derives from Latin natio and originally described the colleagues in a college or students, above all at the University of Paris, who were all born within a pays, spoke the same language and expected to be ruled by their own familiar law. In 1383 and 1384, while studying theology at Paris, Jean Gerson was twice elected procurator for the French nation (i.e. the French-born Francophone students at the University). The Paris division of students into nations was adopted at the University of Prague, where from its opening in 1349 the studium generale was divided among Czech, Bavarian, Saxon and Polish nations.
    ..... Click the link for more information. that traces its ancestry from the Biblical patriarch Abraham Abraham (אברהם "Father/Leader of many", Standard Hebrew Avraham, Tiberian Hebrew ʾAḇrāhām; Arabic ابراهيم Ibrāhīm) is the name given in the Book of Genesis to the ancestor of the Jews.

    Islam also regards him as the ancestor of the Bedouins, through Ishmael. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are sometimes referred to as the "Abrahamic religions" in reference to their supposed common descent from Abraham.
    ..... Click the link for more information. through his son Isaac ISAAC is a pseudorandom number generator designed by Bob Jenkins to be cryptographically secure. It uses an array of 256 4-byte integers called mm as internal state, writing the results to another 256-integer array, from which they are read one at a time until it's empty, at which point they are recomputed. The computation consists of altering mm with mm[i^128], two elements of mm found by indirection, an accumulator, and a counter, for all values of i from 0 to 255.
    ..... Click the link for more information. and in particular Jacob Jacob is mentioned in the Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible. Jacob, or Ya'akov, (יעקב "Holder of the heel", Standard Hebrew Yaʿaqov, Tiberian Hebrew Yaʿăqōḇ; Arabic يعقوب Yaʿqūb), is also known as Israel (ישראל "Prince with God", Standard Hebrew Yisraʾel, Tiberian Hebrew Yiśrāʾēl; Arabic اسرائيل Isrāīl). He is one of the three patriarchs of the Jewish people.
    ..... Click the link for more information. , Isaac's son, as well as to those who subsequently joined them over the course of history as converts. See also Israelites Israelite (ישראל "Struggled with God", Standard Hebrew Yisraʾel, Tiberian Hebrew Yiśrāʾēl) a member of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, or Children of Israel (בני ישראל, Standard Hebrew Bəne Yisraʾel, Tiberian Hebrew Bənê Yiśrāʾēl
    ..... Click the link for more information. . Ethnic Jews include both so-called "observant Jews," meaning those who practice the Biblical The Bible is the primary sacred scripture of both the Jewish and Christian religions. These scriptures are compilations of what were originally separate documents (called "books") written over a long period of time. The first selection, which later formed the Jewish Bible (Tanakh) consisted of 39 books. Later additions after the birth of Jesus made up the New Testament made up of 27 Books.
    ..... Click the link for more information. and Rabbinic A Rabbi is a religious Jewish scholar who is an expert in Jewish law. The term means teacher.

    The term rabbi commonly refers to the spiritual leader of a Jewish synagogue. The rabbi may, but is not required to, conduct prayer services. Their true role is as a spiritual consultant and teacher. A rabbi is the person to whom Jews turn for answers to questions about Jewish laws and related matters.
    ..... Click the link for more information. laws, known as the halakha Halakha (הלכה in Hebrew or Halakhah, Halacha, Halachah) is commonly used to refer to the collective corpus of Jewish law, custom and tradition regulating all aspects of behavior. The name Halakha derives from the Hebrew הלך, halach meaning "going" or the "[correct] way"; thus a literal translation does not yield "law", rather "the way to go." Halakha constitutes the practical application of the commandments in the Torah, (the five books of Moses, the Written Law) as developed through discussion and debate in the classical rabbinic literature, especially the Mishnah and the Talmud (the Oral law).
    ..... Click the link for more information. , and so-called "secular Jews," those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense.




    I fear that this debate may come across badly
    This is where i got the information from: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...sh%20ethnicity

    extremely interesting, i do hope no one is offended by my, or anyone elses comments on this topic!
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    (Original post by PeoplesPrincess)
    oh be quiet you gimp.

    Take a look at this then; maybe its more convincing:
    1.You are Jewish if you come from Judea
    2.you are Jewish is your mother is Jewish even if you hold no belief.
    3. N.B "secular Jews," those who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews in a cultural or ethnic sense.

    And no, i was not refering to hasidic Jews although their excellent dress does tend to mark them out as Jews.

    ...

    extremely interesting, i do hope no one is offended by my, or anyone elses comments on this topic!
    No need to resort to name calling.

    1. You may be described as Jewish if you come from Judea, just as people from the Caucasus may be called Caucasian, but that is not what you meant.

    2. It is indeed true that Judaism is passed down the maternal line. What does that have to do with 'looking Jewish'?

    3. Yes, secular Jews are not religious but identify themselves as such for family or cultural reasons. Again what does that have to do with 'looking Jewish'?

    Do you honestly believe Christians have a certain 'look'? What is it about Jews that makes you think you could identify them in an anonymous line-up, with everyone wearing overalls and baseball caps?

    Jews do not share biological similarities with eachother other than those they share with all other humans. They have no distinctive characteristics, such as particular blood groups, skin pigmentation or lactose tolerance levels. Anyone you see in the street may be Jewish. You just can't tell just by looking.
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    By the birth of Jesus the Hebrew nation was settled in the Israel/Palastine area for over 700 years and therefore would not be classed as Nomadic.

    If you will look at the colour of the skin of people living in the Israel/Palastine area now you will see people of tanned skin (rather than very dark brown) and since the characterist look regions will generally change the same (such as Europeans have generally very pale skin).
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    By the birth of Jesus the Hebrew nation was settled in the Israel/Palastine area for over 700 years and therefore would not be classed as Nomadic.

    If you will look at the colour of the skin of people living in the Israel/Palastine area now you will see people of tanned skin (rather than very dark brown) and since the characterist look regions will generally change the same (such as Europeans have generally very pale skin).
    It's been proven scientifically that the indigenous people living in the area of Israel and the Palestinian territories (Muslim, Jewish, Christian or other) all look the same because they are all the same. The only thing that changed was their religion and language.

    This is generally true across the world. Throughout the centuries, invaders come and go but the aboriginal inhabitants of any particular region usually stay where they are - they just assume whatever new religion,language or culture is forced on them at the time.

    Mass genocide and ethnic cleansing is a comparatively recent phenomenon and largely a result of political state nationalism.
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    (Original post by spk)
    It's been proven scientifically that the indigenous people living in the area of Israel and the Palestinian territories (Muslim, Jewish, Christian or other) all look the same because they are all the same. The only thing that changed was their religion and language.

    This is generally true across the world. Throughout the centuries, invaders come and go but the aboriginal inhabitants of any particular region usually stay where they are - they just assume whatever new religion,language or culture is forced on them at the time.

    Mass genocide and ethnic cleansing is a comparatively recent phenomenon and largely a result of political state nationalism.
    Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Jesus had the same skin colour as the present inhabitance of the region.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Jesus had the same skin colour as the present inhabitance of the region.
    Well done!

    *claps*
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    (Original post by spk)
    Well done!

    *claps*
    therefore Jesus was not black in the most exteme sense.
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    therefore Jesus was not black in the most exteme sense.
    Double well done!
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    i say he was not white. he might have been chinese
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    (Original post by magiccarpet)
    i say he was not white. he might have been chinese
    Since he did not live in the far east, he would not have had the characteristic oriental look.
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    So can we conclude that Jesus probably looked middle-eastern...7 pages later....
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    (Original post by ShOcKzZ)
    interesting, was he?
    Look at my signiture.
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    Interesting article

    bits are cut out


    Dreaming of a Non-White Christmas
    Santa, Jesus, and the Symbolism
    of Racial Supremacy

    By Tim Wise

    .

    Though there has been an attempt to make use of Santas of color in malls around the country lately, I think we can all agree this is pretty absurd: if Santa were black, there is little question he'd have been shot dead years ago in the vestibule of some New York City apartment by the NYPD's Street Crimes Unit. After all, how could the cop be sure that toy gun he was bringing to the child inside wasn't real? Better safe than sorry -- and anyway, that bright red suit would make him a logical target, seeing as how red is the color favored by members of the Bloods street gang.

    But it wasn't this kind of irony about a black Santa that animated the comment I heard while strolling through the mall that day. No, it was pure racial resentment and nothing else leading the white woman, child in tow, to say to her friend, "don't you think it's silly to have these Black Santas? Everybody's trying to be so P.C. I mean, come on, a Black Santa? Everyone knows Santa is white."

    Her friend of course agreed. Everyone knows Santa -- a make believe entity for those who haven't figured it out yet -- is white. The insistence on the racial purity of this entirely fictional being, as if this was a real person, struck me as hilarious, and right up there with the folks who send get well cards to their favorite soap opera characters when they fall ill on the shows. Ronald and Nancy Reagan are reported to have done this once. Fantasy, reality, ah screw it, who cares? I'm starting to realize the awful truth: white people are certifiably insane.

    It all made sense though once I passed the woman and noticed the holiday stationary and cards in her bag. The ones with the calming, soothing face of Jesus staring back at me. You know the Jesus I'm talking about right? The one with the pale skin, blue eyes, and rock-star good looks? Yeah, that one. The same Jesus that has occupied the minds of Western Christians for the last five centuries, ever since Michaelangelo was commissioned to paint his image, and used his lily-white cousin as the sitting model.

    Oh ****, I've stepped in it now. Questioning the ethnic heritage of Christ himself. And you thought this was just gonna be a cute little diatribe about the commercialization of the Yuletide season? Au contraire, mon frere.

    My wife and I have received many a Christmas card this season, and as always, the representations of Jesus that adorn so many of them cast the Christian Messiah as nothing if not European. Now I know my gentile friends have that song, "A Child is Born in Bethlehem," but I never realized until now that they had meant Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Silly me, but I always had thought the Christ child was born in that part of the world we call the "Middle East," which, if we were being honest, we would easily recognize as basically a part of Africa, separated from the continent by the man-made Suez Canal. As such, the odds of him looking the way he does in churches across America are pretty much slim and none. But don't tell that to most of his followers: especially the ones who are white like me.

    The suggestion that Jesus would have been dark-skinned (black in the admittedly non-scientific racial taxonomy of the United States), is about as blasphemous to most Christians as anything one could say. Of course, no one wants to admit their indignation at the notion, so they typically couch it in ecumenical platitudes like "it doesn't matter what Jesus looked like; it only matters what he did." OK, fine. I'm down with that. Although not a Christian, I've always been one who thought Jesus said and did some pretty exemplary stuff, unlike what so many of his modern disciples say and do. So then, if it doesn't matter what he looked like then why not make him black?

    I have asked this question when giving speeches on racism at religiously affiliated colleges, and let's just say, there's nothing like it if you're looking to see how fast you can get folks to start clearing their throats. Again they insist, "no you don't understand, it doesn't matter what he looked like, it's what he did." And again I repeat, O.K., fine, if it really doesn't matter then let's make him black, just for a year. Then you can change him back again if you really want to. No biggie.

    No dice, and no takers. We go round and round, as white folks check their watches and try to figure out how they can leave the room without seeming to be rude.

    But let's be clear: the white iconography of Jesus that predominates in this culture makes absolutely no sense, except as an artifact of a white supremacist worldview. First off, the earliest representations of Jesus, Mary, and Christ's disciples appear in the catacombs of Rome, where the first Christians, known as Essenes buried their dead. All of these portrayals picture a dark-skinned Messiah. In addition, during the time of Roman Emperor Justinian II, the Empire minted a gold coin that pictured Jesus. This coin, which today can be viewed in the British Museum, shows a man with clearly non-white facial features and tightly curled hair, consistent with the description of Christ offered in the Book of Revelations, wherein it is noted that Jesus had hair like wool, feet the color of burnt brass, and resembled jasper and sardine stones: both of which were brown in color.

    Now I don't much care about the scriptural references myself, and far be it from me to insist on the infallibility of the Bible; but if the folks who do swear that every word of it has to be accepted as literal, don't also accept these descriptions -- which clearly contradict the imagery on the Christmas cards, or that of the nativity scenes one sees everywhere at this time of year -- then they are nothing if not hypocrites.

    And don't forget, according to Biblical lore, when Jesus was born, Herod sent search parties out to find him and slay him as an infant. To hide the Christ child, his family absconded with him to Egypt, and if there is one thing we can be absolutely sure of, it's that one would not have been likely to try hiding an Aryan baby and family in pre-Arab Egypt, of all places. This was, after all, a society of dark-skinned Africans (as evidenced in their own hieroglyphs); one that had referred to itself as Kemet (the Black land), for thousands of years, and themselves as "Kemetcu" (the black humans). The "father" of modern history, Herodotus, himself acknowledged as much when he said "the Egyptians, Colchians and Ethiopians have thick lips, broad nose, wooly hair and are of burnt skin." Elsewhere, he actually referred to them as "black." If Jesus had been white, Mary and Joseph would have put him on a slow boat to Canada, not trekked to Egypt where finding them would have been like shooting fish in the proverbial barrel.

    For those of you still reading, you'll either be laughing or fuming: if laughing, it's because you realize how silly the whitening of Jesus has been in this culture, and yet, how wedded we really are to that imagery; if fuming, well, it's because you think that somehow I'm being sacrilegious, or absurd. But I'm just reading what the good book says, and applying a little common sense and anthropology to the process.

    If you want to really see absurd, go pick up Volume One of the Robert Maxwell Bible Stories Series, which I assure you is sitting on a table in your doctor's office right now. There you will find Adam and Eve depicted as if the Garden of Eden had been in Norway, despite the fact that Biblical scholars all agree the Garden -- whether viewed as a literal place or as a fictional metaphor -- was bordered by two rivers, the Biblical description of which only fits that of the Blue Nile and White Nile: neither of which, last time I checked were to be found in Scandinavia.

    Some may ask what the point of all this is though frankly, it ought to be obvious. So long as our culture pictures Adam, Eve, Moses, Jesus, Mary, the Apostles, and even God "himself" as fair-skinned folk, despite the obvious preposterousness of such representations, we will continue to plant the seeds of racial supremacism in the hearts and minds of millions of people.. After all, to believe that divinity is white like you leads one to easily assume that others are somehow less complete, less than human. If God supposedly made man in his image, and God is always portrayed as a bearded white man (kinda like Santa without the suit), how hard a leap is it -- especially for children whose introduction to religion is always nine-tenths forced propaganda anyway -- to assume that persons of color are somehow not full and equal "children of God?" Not to mention the sexist aspect of the male sky-God imagery, of course, which is a whole different can of worms.

    So now that I have managed to piss everyone off, here's wishing you all a very merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Resplendent Ramadan, and Super Solstice. Now get out there and shop! And take that damned Swedish-looking angel off the top of your tree for God's sake.
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    of course he was "black". he wasnt from white middle class america like theyd have you believe.
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    (Original post by wu be eel)
    of course he was "black". he wasnt from white middle class america like theyd have you believe.
    We have already established he had the middle eastern skin colour, such as can be seen in the present day region.
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    Jesus (pbuh) is not Black or White. Jesus was sent to bini Israel or children of Israel who disbelived in God after they were saved from Egypt so god sent Jesus after Moses (pbuh) to correct the religion.
    Jesus was the last Israeli prophet he was born with out a father (and i belive he is not Gods sons because god can do what God wishes) to Mariyam (Virgin Mary) Jesus was sent only to the children Israel and not to the rest of the world. There will be a second comming of Jesus as believed by the Christains and Muslims. He is discribed as having redish hair and middle eastern skin colour. Jesus him self was not a jew or christain.
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    no, he was a jew!!! on the cross it said king of jews!! and jesus is recognises as one of the prophets of Islam, but not as the Son of God

    can i jus say, Tim Wise is a genius.

    and Jesus WAS negro.
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    yea course he was! he liked gospel, called everyone brother and couldn't get a fair trial
    (this has probably been said before in 7 pages but I didnt want to check all of it!)
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    (Original post by magiccarpet)
    no, he was a jew!!! on the cross it said king of jews!! and jesus is recognises as one of the prophets of Islam, but not as the Son of God

    can i jus say, Tim Wise is a genius.

    and Jesus WAS negro.
    Why would Jesus be of African origin when he lived in the middle east of Asia?
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    (Original post by ShOcKzZ)
    interesting, was he?
    ive never seen a black imitaion of him, in all the church windows ive ever seen he's been that sortof peach colour they use to give the image af a white persons skin.
 
 
 
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