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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Of course you have the right to express your views. However, we also have the right to call you out on your views being deluded.
    You may think my views are deluded ( That's you opinion and i respect the fact that people will disagree with me and they have the right to do so ...)
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Okay then, so why do you think that lifts are too safe?
    I never said that lifts are to safe however i was trying to say that why should the EU make laws on small issues which even the smallest of businesses have to follow .... it was a example how the EU make so many health and safety laws on the smallest of issues
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    I never said that lifts are to safe however i was trying to say that why should the EU make laws on small issues which even the smallest of businesses have to follow .... it was a example how the EU make so many health and safety laws on the smallest of issues
    Do you believe that lifts are too safe or not? If you do, then why do you think that businesses no matter how big or small should be able to put the public in danger? If you don't, then why did you offer it as an example?
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    What exactly are these lift regulations because they have been incredibly safe devices for the best part of a century at the very least and I see no reason why there needs to be any EU bureaucracy involved.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Do you believe that lifts are too safe or not? If you do, then why do you think that businesses no matter how big or small should be able to put the public in danger? If you don't, then why did you offer it as an example?
    Lifts are perfectly safe however why should the EU tell us if are lifts are safe or not .... Can't the UK Government do that ?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What exactly are these lift regulations because they have been incredibly safe devices for the best part of a century at the very least and I see no reason why there needs to be any EU bureaucracy involved.
    That's what i was trying to say
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What exactly are these lift regulations because they have been incredibly safe devices for the best part of a century at the very least and I see no reason why there needs to be any EU bureaucracy involved.
    Maybe in the UK, but this is EU wide regulation to make sure that they're as safe all over the continent.

    However, when asked what red tape he disagreed with (because it harms business) he pointed to lift regulation. If safe lifts harm business, then I'll go back to communism
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Lifts are perfectly safe however why should the EU tell us if are lifts are safe or not .... Can't the UK Government do that ?
    The UK can do that, but that's not the point, you said that red tape harms business, how do safe lifts harm business?
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    The UK can do that, but that's not the point, you said that red tape harms business, how do safe lifts harm business?
    Yes it is the point ... you asked for a specific regulation and why i disagreed with it ... and i gave you 3 petty EU health and safety regulations that are part of the directives

    To answer you question

    Not all businesses have lifts ...... If a small business does then why should the EU tell them how safe it has to be ? why can't our national parliament do that ?
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Maybe in the UK, but this is EU wide regulation to make sure that they're as safe all over the continent.

    However, when asked what red tape he disagreed with (because it harms business) he pointed to lift regulation. If safe lifts harm business, then I'll go back to communism
    Not just in the UK though, all over the world. If lifts are safe then it is harmful to implement regulation that means already safe lifts are safe

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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Yes it is the point ... you asked for a specific regulation and why i disagreed with it ... and i gave you 3 petty EU health and safety regulations that are part of the directives

    To answer you question

    Not all businesses have lifts ...... If a small business does then why should the EU tell them how safe it has to be ? why can't our national parliament do that ?
    You're speaking about sovereignty, when asked about why you disagree with red tape you offered three examples. If you disagree with them because of sovereignty then you don't disagree with the red tape and it's therefore not a reason for you to want to leave the EU.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Not just in the UK though, all over the world. If lifts are safe then it is harmful to implement regulation that means already safe lifts are safe

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    How so?
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    Well it's now gone 6... If Ray doesn't have the results now he won't get them until Tomorrow.
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    Red tape is largely necessary if we want to maintain the tort principle that people ought to be compensated when they are harmed.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    How so?
    Because the proof of compliance is not free. Say, for example, you own a courier business with a fleet of vans and it is accepted that the vans are safe as long as weekly checks x y and z take place and to do so more regularly has severely diminishing returns. If a regulation were enacted stating the checks must be done daily there is going to be an associated cost, you have to pay for somebody to check more often and/or you lose van time from the vans having to be checked. Similarly depending on the specifics of the lift regulation it will cost money to introduce about the dozenth (literally) redundancy, whether that be some addition increasing the cost of the lift, or needing to pay somebody for inspections or whatever.

    The cost of the red tape has been estimated at about 40bn per annum

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Because the proof of compliance is not free. Say, for example, you own a courier business with a fleet of vans and it is accepted that the vans are safe as long as weekly checks x y and z take place and to do so more regularly has severely diminishing returns. If a regulation were enacted stating the checks must be done daily there is going to be an associated cost, you have to pay for somebody to check more often and/or you lose van time from the vans having to be checked. Similarly depending on the specifics of the lift regulation it will cost money to introduce about the dozenth (literally) redundancy, whether that be some addition increasing the cost of the lift, or needing to pay somebody for inspections or whatever.

    The cost of the red tape has been estimated at about 40bn per annum

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    It establishes conformity assessment procedures, in accordance to Council Decision 93/465/EEC.Manufacturers of safety components and the installer of the lift are under an obligation to assess the hazards in order to identify all those which apply to their products; they must then design and construct them taking account of the assessment.

    https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/33
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    BREAKING NEWS
    Joe Healy has been elected president of the IFA exceeding the quota with 14,122 votes - a strong performance over opponents Flor McCarthy from Kerry and Henry Burns from Laois.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Well it's now gone 6... If Ray doesn't have the results now he won't get them until Tomorrow.
    He might have the results now but release them later to create suspense.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    It establishes conformity assessment procedures, in accordance to Council Decision 93/465/EEC.Manufacturers of safety components and the installer of the lift are under an obligation to assess the hazards in order to identify all those which apply to their products; they must then design and construct them taking account of the assessment.

    https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directives/33
    What it sounds like is trying to take national legislation and replace it with EU legislation as part of the drive towards a federal state, it doesn't really add anything.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What it sounds like is trying to take national legislation and replace it with EU legislation as part of the drive towards a federal state, it doesn't really add anything.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yet Hazzer sited it as an example of a specific piece of red tape that he disagreed with.
 
 
 
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