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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    European immigrants have not left the land they stole from the Native Americans. Instead, they had kids and their descendants continue to live on the land.

    Muslim conquerors have not left Egypt, nor Syria, nor India, nor Persia. Instead, they had kids and their descendants continue to live on the land.

    Instead of hating Jews, why not seek peace with them and show them how to be kind and loving? Jews have for centuries experienced persecution and hatred against them from many groups of people, sad to say. They are trying to survive now. There is only 1 Jewish state: Israel. There are many Muslim-dominated states, ironically surrounding Israel. Much of those Muslim-dominated states were conquered by Muslims long time ago, including Syria, Palestine and Iraq.

    The following are accounts of Muslim invasions of these areas:
    http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/islam08.htm

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...Islamic-period


    Do you think the Muslim conquests are ok, since they are Muslim? If they were Jewish instead of Muslim, would you have an issue with them? Just curious.
    If you want to discuss native americans europeans Persians we can do that on a separate thread. I will not let your zionist propaganda to derail the issue at hand succeed.

    And no the right of return is exactly that a RIGHT, therefore non negoiatable especially given the fact that the Palestinians still hold the deeds and titles to the land and property the illegal filth from europe came and robbed
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    My heart breaks for each person and their loved ones who mourn them.

    May God comfort their loved ones, heal those who are injured, and set them free from hatred through the love of Jesus Christ/Yeshua/Isa, the Jewish Messiah who is also the king of the whole world, who will return someday. May God grant His peace and love to the innocent who have died, and convict people who are alive on both sides: Palestinian and Israeli, to not hate and kill each other no matter their nationality or beliefs, but rather love and respect each other, despite differences in nationality and beliefs.
    I'm sure the dead appreciate your efforts to pray on behalf of them but here's a thought:

    Maybe your prayers would be better served praying for the people who are alive and are inflicting on others more of the same, eh?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I'm sure the dead appreciate your efforts to pray on behalf of them but here's a thought:

    Maybe your prayers would be better served praying for the people who are alive and are inflicting on others more of the same, eh?
    'May God ... convict people who are alive on both sides: Palestinian and Israeli, to not hate and kill each other no matter their nationality or beliefs, but rather love and respect each other, despite differences in nationality and beliefs.'
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    (Original post by mazhal)
    If you want to discuss native americans europeans Persians we can do that on a separate thread. I will not let your zionist propaganda to derail the issue at hand succeed.
    And no the right of return is exactly that a RIGHT, therefore non negoiatable especially given the fact that the Palestinians still hold the deeds and titles to the land and property the illegal filth from europe came and robbed
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    'May God ... convict people who are alive on both sides: Palestinian and Israeli, to not hate and kill each other no matter their nationality or beliefs, but rather love and respect each other, despite differences in nationality and beliefs.'
    You missed out the bit that they are fighting over (i.e: the land)...
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    Israel kills over 600 people, 80 percent of which are civilians and of which 200 are children.

    Hamas kills 29 Israelis of which 27 are soldiers.

    Hamas: ****ing terrorist scum.
    IDF: caring brave men and women.



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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You missed out the bit that they are fighting over (i.e: the land)...
    One could include that is included in nationality, if Israelis didn't exist then nor would Israel, ie the land they have issue with.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    You missed out the bit that they are fighting over (i.e: the land)...
    Instead of fighting, they can share the land. Nowadays, the Native Americans and European-Americans share the land of the USA. Why can't the Jews and Arabs do the same? Does Islam not allow that?

    Arabs invaded Palestine long ago, and that has affected the present:
    (I boldened some in the article below.)

    'Abū Bakr, therefore, summoned the faithful to a holy war (jihad) and quickly amassed a large army. He dispatched three detachments of about 3,000 (later increased to about 7,500) men each to start operations in southern and southeastern Syria. He died, however, before he could witness the results of these undertakings. The conquests he started were carried on by his successor, the caliph ʿUmar I (634–644).The first battle took place at Wadi Al-ʿArabah, south of the Dead Sea. The Byzantine defenders were defeated and retreated toward Gaza but were overtaken and almost annihilated. In other places, however, the natural advantages of the defenders were more effective, and the invaders were hard-pressed. Khālid ibn al-Walīd, then operating in southern Iraq, was ordered to the aid of his fellow Arab generals on the Syrian front, and the combined forces won a bloody victory on July 30, 634, at a place in southern Palestine that the sources ...'
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nquest-to-1900

    What's going on now involves what happened in the past: both the past of the Jewish people who lived in the land of Israel during Jesus (Isa/Yeshua)'s time, and the more recent past of the Muslim invasion of Palestine.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Despite launching a war on the new state of Israel declared by the UN?
    See 'initial'. More specifically, I'm referring to pre-1948. When Zionists were the initial aggressors. I don't think declaring war on Israel after the partition was commendable, obviously - but given Zionists had been massacring Palestinians and taking all the land they could just prior to that I can appreciate the sense that the UN's resolution wasn't either. Similarly I think that citizens of any country whose future was being decided by other parties while they lost the right to self-determine would resent it. Again - I'm anti-Hamas. But I don't think that's incompatible with a recognition that Israel have more to answer for.

    As far as I'm aware Palestine didn't invade - other states were responsible for that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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    (Original post by Acidy)
    In my opinion the following should be considered:

    There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world or 23% of the World's population.

    There's are 14-15 million jews in the world and are less than 0.1% of the world's population.

    It's easy to hate the minority, especially when they stand up for themselves against the majority. This is the nature of human struggle.

    If you can't view a situation objectively, reason and come to a reasonable conclusion about the current situation presented by a lot of the present anti-zionist media. You're probably not that smart.

    Remember who owns the majority of the World's Wealth
    - after a History's worth of persecution
    - relative to their population (0.1%) (jesus christ.)

    Do you see Rabbi's with Suicide vests walking into ASDA with the intention of inflicting harm? No. The truth is this is not within the nature of their religion and to think of Israel as a parable to Nazi Germany or otherwise is quite-frankly pathetic.

    The fact is, and most of you won't be able to understand this, having been brainwashed with anti-logic conditioning.

    Jews contribute the most to society and are the most peaceful nation when they are not being bombarded with religions that wish to crucify them. It's the survival of Israel against the world and nothing more. Would you rather they voluntarily lay down their lives and be slaughtered like sheep for no other purpose then to make the fundamentalist -terrorist middle east feel better about themselves?

    This is probably going to sound a bit controversial, but Hey-ho. The fact remains, the majority of countries and it's civilian populations have nothing going for them. Keep in mind who gives the most contributions to the world, perhaps even google it.
    The persecuted are now becoming the persecutors.
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    (Original post by Acidy)
    In my opinion the following should be considered:

    There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world or 23% of the World's population.

    There's are 14-15 million jews in the world and are less than 0.1% of the world's population.

    It's easy to hate the minority, especially when they stand up for themselves against the majority. This is the nature of human struggle.

    If you can't view a situation objectively, reason and come to a reasonable conclusion about the current situation presented by a lot of the present anti-zionist media. You're probably not that smart.

    Remember who owns the majority of the World's Wealth
    - after a History's worth of persecution
    - relative to their population (0.1%) (jesus christ.)

    Do you see Rabbi's with Suicide vests walking into ASDA with the intention of inflicting harm? No. The truth is this is not within the nature of their religion and to think of Israel as a parable to Nazi Germany or otherwise is quite-frankly pathetic.

    The fact is, and most of you won't be able to understand this, having been brainwashed with anti-logic conditioning.

    Jews contribute the most to society and are the most peaceful nation when they are not being bombarded with religions that wish to crucify them. It's the survival of Israel against the world and nothing more. Would you rather they voluntarily lay down their lives and be slaughtered like sheep for no other purpose then to make the fundamentalist -terrorist middle east feel better about themselves?

    This is probably going to sound a bit controversial, but Hey-ho. The fact remains, the majority of countries and it's civilian populations have nothing going for them. Keep in mind who gives the most contributions to the world, perhaps even google it.

    (Original post by gideon123)
    i am jewish and i appreciate this post, so thankyou!

    Anti-Zionist does NOT mean Anti-Jewish/Semitic

    I despise what Zionism has become, but I do not despise Jews, I respect them. However I can not blindly support nor follow the Zionist regime currently in place in Israel. It defies logic and basic humanitarian concern. The anti-Zionist movement is popular amongst Jews. They stood side by side on Saturday 19th July with others marching in London and the rest of the world, and they will continue to do so until the Israeli government gives the Palestinians their property and rights back, as well as open the borders. Until then the Israeli government can bleat it is committing "war" crimes in the defense of Jewish people, but they do not speak for the majority of Jews.



    If you actually think that all Israelis are peace-and-Palestinian-loving people then you must be "brainwashed", it is well known and well reported the view of Israelis citizens is that they believe that Palestinians are inferior and not worthy of living. This is clear from the extremist rabbis that spout hatred and justify the killing of Palestinians. That is not true Judaism.

    Your points on wealth being a sign of nobility is quite frankly the most deluded statement I have read on this topic. It is a red herring and deserves no real speculation other than this - the Nazis were also quite wealthy, does that make them responsible and good people?!
    Are corporations to be considered as having a positive effect on the world simply due to the size of their wealth?!

    If Palestinians were equally wealthy, would you still hold the same opinion of them?
    But of course, they can't be. Not when an oppressive Israeli government sees it justified to destroy infrastructure, water and sewage systems, homes and hospitals, stealing land and building settlements upon it, destroy schools, control borders, control medical aid, as well as imports/exports. Just in the last couple of days alone, refugee camps and care homes have been bombed by F16's.

    The main opposition to Israel's treatment of Palestinians isn't based on intolerance of Jews/anti-antisemitism, it is based on the simple notion that the Palestinian people must be given their rights, as well as a stop to the Intolerance of Palestinians by right-wing Israelis. Israel cannot claim to be a victim in this, when their treatment of others is akin to Nazism.
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    Other developments -

    David Miliband:
    ""We oppose the Israeli incursion into Gaza...we oppose the further escalation of violence we have seen with Israel's invasion of Gaza... cannot explain, justify or defend the horrifying deaths of hundreds of Palestinians, including children and innocent civilians."

    Correspondent attacked by Israeli's mid-air.





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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    One could include that is included in nationality, if Israelis didn't exist then nor would Israel, ie the land they have issue with.
    Good point. Interestingly and sadly, the Jewish people (descendants of Israel- Jacob, son of Isaac son of Abraham) have been persecuted for centuries and have been almost wiped into extinction numerous times. One of the times that is most intriguing to me is during Esther's time. The holocaust is the most dreadful, I think. One of my heroes is Corrie ten Boom. She hid Jewish people from the Nazis. For that, she and her family were thrown in prison (where her elderly father died), then in a concentration camp (where her sister died). Miraculously, she was released and spent the rest of her days teaching love and forgiveness. Through God's help, she forgave the Nazis for all that they had done to her, and for the deaths for beloved father and sister.

    The Jewish people needed their own homeland. I wish the Arabs living in Palestine had embraced these descendants of Abraham (Aren't Arabs descendants of Abraham too... distant cousins to the Jews through Abraham?) Instead, they fought against them. The Grand Mufti was even an ally of Hitler.

    What is needed is not killing, no rockets, tanks, missiles, either on the Palestinian or Israeli side. What is needed is respect and the ability to live in peace with each other.
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    (Original post by ultimates)
    So that being hamas using civilians as meat shields then?
    A strategy which usually works when dealing with countries which actually respect the right of civilians to live. Are you saying that Hamas hiding among civilians gives Israel the right to go ahead and bomb the civilians?

    EDIT: I'm not defending Hamas by any means - all I'm saying is that what Israel is doing is inexcusable.
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    Instead of fighting, they can share the land. Nowadays, the Native Americans and European-Americans share the land of the USA. Why can't the Jews and Arabs do the same? Does Islam not allow that?

    Arabs invaded Palestine long ago, and that has affected the present:
    (I boldened some in the article below.)

    'Abū Bakr, therefore, summoned the faithful to a holy war (jihad) and quickly amassed a large army. He dispatched three detachments of about 3,000 (later increased to about 7,500) men each to start operations in southern and southeastern Syria. He died, however, before he could witness the results of these undertakings. The conquests he started were carried on by his successor, the caliph ʿUmar I (634–644).The first battle took place at Wadi Al-ʿArabah, south of the Dead Sea. The Byzantine defenders were defeated and retreated toward Gaza but were overtaken and almost annihilated. In other places, however, the natural advantages of the defenders were more effective, and the invaders were hard-pressed. Khālid ibn al-Walīd, then operating in southern Iraq, was ordered to the aid of his fellow Arab generals on the Syrian front, and the combined forces won a bloody victory on July 30, 634, at a place in southern Palestine that the sources ...'
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...nquest-to-1900

    What's going on now involves what happened in the past: both the past of the Jewish people who lived in the land of Israel during Jesus (Isa/Yeshua)'s time, and the more recent past of the Muslim invasion of Palestine.
    So the Muslims fought the Jews in 633 over the land of Palestine?
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    It's amazing to me how so many of the pro-Israel arguments seem to be based on the notion that a fight started in the last week or so. Some people need to study their history just a little bit.
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    But the fact that isralies are celebrating when a bomb is dropped in palestine shows they have no remorse
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    This says more about the UN's relationship with Israel than about Israel itself.
    Do you mind elaborating?
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    (Original post by Agapelove)
    Good point. Interestingly and sadly, the Jewish people (descendants of Israel- Jacob, son of Isaac son of Abraham) have been persecuted for centuries and have been almost wiped into extinction numerous times. One of the times that is most intriguing to me is during Esther's time. The holocaust is the most dreadful, I think. One of my heroes is Corrie ten Boom. She hid Jewish people from the Nazis. For that, she and her family were thrown in prison (where her elderly father died), then in a concentration camp (where her sister died). Miraculously, she was released and spent the rest of her days teaching love and forgiveness. Through God's help, she forgave the Nazis for all that they had done to her, and for the deaths for beloved father and sister.

    The Jewish people needed their own homeland. I wish the Arabs living in Palestine had embraced these descendants of Abraham (Aren't Arabs descendants of Abraham too... distant cousins to the Jews through Abraham?) Instead, they fought against them. The Grand Mufti was even an ally of Hitler.

    What is needed is not killing, no rockets, tanks, missiles, either on the Palestinian or Israeli side. What is needed is respect and the ability to live in peace with each other.
    They need a home land as much as they next guy, i.e. they don't. They just need to learn how to get on with people. And what are these occasions of becoming "nearly extinct" because I've never heard of them, holocaust got no where near.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    So the Muslims fought the Jews in 633 over the land of Palestine?

    The Muslims basically fought against the Byzantians at that time. Rome had fought against the Jews and destroyed Jerusalem around 70 AD. Most of the surviving Jews (the Romans killed many Jews), fled to other areas.

    Again, one of the reasons why most of the Jewish leaders did not accept Jesus (Yeshua/Isa) was because he did not fight and win against the Roman oppressors of Israel (Judea). Instead, he preached love for one's enemies. It takes a huge leap of faith to love one's enemies, hmm? It also takes God's help, because people naturally hate those who hate them.

    Due to the recent Nazi holocaust, Jewish people desperately wanted their homeland back. That is where the Jews come in again, and where Israel has been regenerated/re birthed, as Jewish prophecy foretold. The first time Israel was destroyed was by the Babylonians. The second time, by the Romans. Hopefully there is no third time for Israel being destroyed. 1948 is the third regeneration/rebirth of Israel. It does seem sadly though that Muslims want to destroy the third regeneration of Israel.
 
 
 
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