The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As the old adage goes, the Tories will vote for the economic position they prefer rather than the social (that's not to say we don't care or that there are not some who put that first) so if Starmer is left of May then it's very hard for him to win those people without being an incumbent.

    Although he was a complete wet fish in policy i thought Burnham was pretty good and also Murphy. Even Miliband himself comes across pretty well now that he's not trying to kick Cameron out of office.



    Although i disagree with such a position i can somewhat respect social democrats from an economic standpoint which is what he's put forward so far (though it would not shock me if he privately believed in a command economy).

    The reason i consider Corbyn an extremist, cannot respect him and consider him a threat that must be castrated at all costs is that he despises the institutions of our great nation. He wants rid of the monarchy, he wants rid of the union and overseas territories, he wants to tear up our membership of NATO and is Putin friendly.. these are not things which we can simply change back after a term.

    This is also what puzzles me most about labour members. It's one thing to want higher taxes, fairness, income equality ect.. but you chose to elect a man who despises the country he lives in.

    I know many Tories think he should be left alone into 2020 however even if the chance of his election is probably say 5%, that is 5% too high given the extremity of his views.
    I don't see how anyone can be proud of what Britain currently is, nor proud of its traditions like the monarchy or colonialism. He's anti-war which also rightly reflects our members and takes a big interest in civie casualties and post war effects which are always ignored.

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    Rakas21 Jammy Duel Guys, your worst MHoC-related nightmare is taking place right now in the Netherlands:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sial-move.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-illness.html
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Rakas21 Jammy Duel Guys, your worst MHoC-related nightmare is taking place right now in the Netherlands:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sial-move.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-illness.html
    Excellent news

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    Also, got one of the new fivers last night, got to say, its nice.

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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Excellent news

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    Would you also like to cull the elderly population like Aph or those sentenced for life without any chance of getting out?

    (I'm not trying to argue, I support euthanasia.)
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Would you also like to cull the elderly population like Aph or those sentenced for life without any chance of getting out?

    (I'm not trying to argue, I support euthanasia.)
    *groan* bloody libcucks
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    The Netherlands disgusts me.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Would you also like to cull the elderly population like Aph or those sentenced for life without any chance of getting out?

    (I'm not trying to argue, I support euthanasia.)
    Well, culling the elderly would certainly save a fortune with the savings on healthcare and pensions.

    Age isn't really a factor, long term I'd like to see some kind of DNR equivalent being discussed (ideally along side organ donation with your drivers licence) but especially with patients who have a degenerative disorder, so they can agree with family and clinicians and say "if I lose my ability to speak, I want to be culled," or something similar. Entirely up to the individual in this case BEFORE it happens.

    Long term, I'd like there to be some mechanism whereby everyone lists if they want to be euthanised and under what circumstance, in the event of paralysis from a car crash, Locked-In syndrome or something similar.

    I've said to my family if I ever develop a disorder and have such a poor quality of life that I can't even wipe my ass, I want to be euthanised.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19341722

    The story of Tony Nicklinson is absolutely tragic and I would be in the same boat as him, if I had Locked-In Syndrome I too would want to be killed, this story highlights exactly why I support euthanasia.

    Palliative Care exists on the belief that dying is a part of life and people should be in control of when to pass on, controlled cell death is a natural part of the cell cycle and the saddest cases are people who are suffering so badly, yet pro-lifers tell them life is sacred, so they continue to live in agony.

    The state should have no role in the decision, so the best way is to clarify individually, leaving it down to clinicians is too arbitrary and impossible to standardise.

    I accept the counterargument about familial pressure, because that's incredibly concerning if that materialises, hence why I'll probably follow the Dutch program to see if that happens.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Rakas21 Jammy Duel Guys, your worst MHoC-related nightmare is taking place right now in the Netherlands:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sial-move.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-illness.html
    Deplorable but hardly my worst MHOC-RELATED nightmare, but there are reasons I would happily abandon Europe for the states if given the opportunity

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Deplorable but hardly my worst MHOC-RELATED nightmare, but there are reasons I would happily abandon Europe for the states if given the opportunity

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    How dare people be given autonomy over their own lives and an opportunity to leave with dignity and on their own terms.

    We should instead make people suffer and wear away until they're little more than skin and bones.

    We have the good decency to put our pets down rather than wait until they are living in constant and insufferable pain yet for some reason we do not extend that basic compassion towards other humans.

    Yet further evidence of you shifting from wanting a small state that keeps out of people's lives to wanting a big one that tells us what we can and can't do.*
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    How dare people be given autonomy over their own lives and an opportunity to leave with dignity and on their own terms.

    We should instead make people suffer and wear away until they're little more than skin and bones.

    We have the good decency to put our pets down rather than wait until they are living in constant and insufferable pain yet for some reason we do not extend that basic compassion towards other humans.

    Yet further evidence of you shifting from wanting a small state that keeps out of people's lives to wanting a big one that tells us what we can and can't do.*
    I do love how you pretend to know my views better than I do myself not only now, but for the last decade.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I do love how you pretend to know my views better than I do myself not only now, but for the last decade.

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    Does have a point in the sense of small state though, you support individual choice except when it comes to choosing when to die?

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    How dare people be given autonomy over their own lives and an opportunity to leave with dignity and on their own terms.

    We should instead make people suffer and wear away until they're little more than skin and bones.

    We have the good decency to put our pets down rather than wait until they are living in constant and insufferable pain yet for some reason we do not extend that basic compassion towards other humans.

    Yet further evidence of you shifting from wanting a small state that keeps out of people's lives to wanting a big one that tells us what we can and can't do.*
    That's all covered by the fact euthanasia is already legal for the terminally ill or those with conditions they won't recover from in the Netherlands. This proposal seems to go far further.
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    Where is peoples desire to live forever. We live in age where one can reasonably expect to make it to 100 (by the time we are old), personally i'm getting myself frozen at that point until they can cure ageing.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Where is peoples desire to live forever. We live in age where one can reasonably expect to make it to 100 (by the time we are old), personally i'm getting myself frozen at that point until they can cure ageing.
    God no! I don't wanna be around past 50 to be honest, if that.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Where is peoples desire to live forever. We live in age where one can reasonably expect to make it to 100 (by the time we are old), personally i'm getting myself frozen at that point until they can cure ageing.
    Then life becomes meaningless.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I do love how you pretend to know my views better than I do myself not only now, but for the last decade.

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    Well you always go on about how you want a small state but here you are supporting a big state telling people what they can and can't do. Why can't the state just let people get on with what they want to do?

    *
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Where is peoples desire to live forever. We live in age where one can reasonably expect to make it to 100 (by the time we are old), personally i'm getting myself frozen at that point until they can cure ageing.
    You'll be so ill at the point that your quality of life would be crap.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Then life becomes meaningless.
    *
    Only if one lacks imagination or loves life. Imagine being able to spend another 50 years in whatever career you want.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Well you always go on about how you want a small state but here you are supporting a big state telling people what they can and can't do. Why can't the state just let people get on with what they want to do?

    *
    There's a difference between a small state and a potty libertarian one.

    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    You'll be so ill at the point that your quality of life would be crap.
    We're assuming some medical advances and staying in relatively good shape obviously.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Well you always go on about how you want a small state but here you are supporting a big state telling people what they can and can't do. Why can't the state just let people get on with what they want to do?

    *
    A small state is not necessarily one that does not dictate, and when are you going to break out of this perpetual habit of assuming smaller state means less spending everywhere and dictating nothing?

    Are you also seriously telling me that it is not only illegal, but impossible for somebody to kill themselves without the state doing it for them? About 6000 people a year in the UK alone seem to disagree. If somebody seriously wants to end their life they will do it, few people who claim to want to can't, offloading the responsibility to the state just means those who don't really want it get to throw the life they do actually care about away. There is a reason I always say that if the victim is sufficiently able bodied (basically all the victims) they should have to pull the proverbial trigger themselves, I imagine in that scenario suddenly the body count will plummet.

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