Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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MatureStudent36
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#1501
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#1501
(Original post by Jordan_1)
Do you actually read any of the Yes campaigns arguments? Obviously you haven't if you believe it's all based on national pride. Why do you wan't Scotland to be controlled by a government which does not represent or value Scotland's views. For example, 90% of Scottish MP's were against the bedroom tax. What happened? Oh, tough **** Scotland, it's happening anyway.

You do realise Wales and N.I are part of the Union as well don't you? So why do the Unionts act like it is some sort of anti-england agenda. Not to mention there are English MPs and English citizens within Scotland who also support independence.


Is the bed room tax the sound bite fir the month?

incidentally, are you advocating paying over the odds benefits for people living in houses that are too big fir them whilst we have families on waiting lists to get into decent sized properties?


are the SnP giving us houses now?
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Jaddos)
An interesting angle might be how the debate has changed since the problems in the Euro zone. Europe will probably be less welcoming to small new members these days.
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A lot changed after 2008. I don't think our politicians in holyrood have understood this
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Laozi
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#1503
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#1503
(Original post by Jordan_1)
Do you actually read any of the Yes campaigns arguments? Obviously you haven't if you believe it's all based on national pride. Why do you wan't Scotland to be controlled by a government which does not represent or value Scotland's views.
I'm sure you'll find that the Parliament in Westminster is made up both lots of Scottish MPs and is far more fairer and nicer than the EU parliament. If you get out of the Union then you're going to get absorbed into the EU and you'll be forced to do more things then we 'force' you to do.

(Original post by Jordan_1)
For example, 90% of Scottish MP's were against the bedroom tax. What happened? Oh, tough **** Scotland, it's happening anyway.
Pulling figures out of thin air. English people have had to deal with open door immigration from our own government in our country!? They've listened to you more than they have us.

(Original post by Jordan_1)
You do realise Wales and N.I are part of the Union as well don't you? So why do the Unionts act like it is some sort of anti-england agenda. Not to mention there are English MPs and English citizens within Scotland who also support independence.
Because the SNP's only real argument to leave the Union are nationalism and on anti-English sentiments that we're tyrants and the Scottish people will never be 'free' under English tyranny. It's laughable. :rolleyes:

You obviously have no real rational or logical reasons for Scotland to leave. Your well prized oil won't cover your health care fees and you'll have to take on half of the national debt and also fund your own army and adopt the Euro.

The SNP is only in power still because of free university.
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Jordan_1
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(Original post by Laozi)
I'm sure you'll find that the Parliament in Westminster is made up both lots of Scottish MPs and is far more fairer and nicer than the EU parliament. If you get out of the Union then you're going to get absorbed into the EU and you'll be forced to do more things then we 'force' you to do.

We're already in the EU and the same laws apply so I don't know what your point is....


Pulling figures out of thin air. English people have had to deal with open door immigration from our own government in our country!? They've listened to you more than they have us.

Nope, its been stated in a number of articles, not my fault you're too lazy to do your own research. So you're saying Scotland isn't affected by open door immigration? Good one...

Because the SNP's only real argument to leave the Union are nationalism and on anti-English sentiments that we're tyrants and the Scottish people will never be 'free' under English tyranny. It's laughable. :rolleyes:

Well no, they are mostly based on being able to control our own state of affairs. Are you actually making this stuff up as you go along?

You obviously have no real rational or logical reasons for Scotland to leave. Your well prized oil won't cover your health care fees and you'll have to take on half of the national debt and also fund your own army and adopt the Euro.

We aren't taking 'half of the national debt' so who's making up things now? We won't need an army because we won't be involved in pointless wars just to please the americans :rolleyes: and no one is sure if we will have to adopt the Euro yet. We won't need to straight away anyway. We can continue using the pound whether the rest of the UK like it or not. It is in their interests that we do however.
The SNP is only in power still because of free university.
Read bold.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Jordan_1)
Read bold.

And the mis information begins again
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Laozi
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#1506
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#1506
(Original post by Jordan_1)
We're already in the EU and the same laws apply so I don't know what your point is....
My point, again; if you leave the Union then the EU will recognise you as a new country and so you'll have to join the EU. This means you'll have to adopt the Euro currency and all their laws and be told what to do by them - e.g if you can have a general election or not, what laws you can change etc. You'll not be run from Edinburgh but from Brussels - out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Do you even understand the EU? Do you believe that when you leave the Union you'll be a happy, free country and keep the sterling pound and all the good things that go with it?

You're deluded.

(Original post by Jordan_1)
Nope, its been stated in a number of articles, not my fault you're too lazy to do your own research. So you're saying Scotland isn't affected by open door immigration? Good one...
My point, again; our government screws us over just the same as they do to you.

(Original post by Jordan_1)
Well no, they are mostly based on being able to control our own state of affairs. Are you actually making this stuff up as you go along?
Are you making this up?

THE EU WILL CONTROL YOU?!?!?!??!!?!?!?? You're not going to leave and be totally independent - you'll be forced to join the EU. :rolleyes:

(Original post by Jordan_1)
We aren't taking 'half of the national debt' so who's making up things now? We won't need an army because we won't be involved in pointless wars just to please the americans and no one is sure if we will have to adopt the Euro yet. We won't need to straight away anyway. We can continue using the pound whether the rest of the UK like it or not. It is in their interests that we do however.
If you leave you'll have to take part of the national debt. You'll have to have your own standing army. You'll have to adopt the Euro because you can go to hell and back if you think you're keeping the pound when you've left England. You'll be forced to have the Euro.

You have no understanding of economics or politics and seem to only vote the SNP because of what they tell you.
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Jordan_1
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#1507
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(Original post by Laozi)
My point, again; if you leave the Union then the EU will recognise you as a new country and so you'll have to join the EU. .
I'm sorry but where is your evidence for this? It is unknown what exactly will happen yet. However common sense dictates that Scotland will not have to re-join as a new country.

Firstly, the people of Scotland have already been EU citizens for decades, we already have their laws in place and why wouldn't they want us in?

Not only that but what about Belgium who may also be facing break up? If Scotland is forced to re-apply then surely Belgium will have to do the same? Do you know what that would mean, that would mean that 12 million EU citizens would be kicked out and Brussels, the home of the EU wouldn't actually be in the EU anymore. Doesn't make much sense does it?
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MatureStudent36
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#1508
(Original post by Jordan_1)
I'm sorry but where is your evidence for this? It is unknown what exactly will happen yet. However common sense dictates that Scotland will not have to re-join as a new country.

Firstly, the people of Scotland have already been EU citizens for decades, we already have their laws in place and why wouldn't they want us in?

Not only that but what about Belgium who may also be facing break up? If Scotland is forced to re-apply then surely Belgium will have to do the same? Do you know what that would mean, that would mean that 12 million EU citizens would be kicked out and Brussels, the home of the EU wouldn't actually be in the EU anymore. Doesn't make much sense does it?


At worse we're out. At best it's muddled but we're in the euro. We're in Europe now as we're part of the uk. Succession states has been covered so many times on this thread.

this has benn covered so many times since the SNP lied to us.

pleaee could you stop looking at the world from you're myopic insular outlook.
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Maths Tutor
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Whats the poll numbers for seperation. Hint. I've posted the historic poll results before
"Yes campaign gains ground in latest independence referendum poll"

"Support has grown by two points since January to 36% and opposition has fallen by one point to 46%, while 18% were undecided, according to the Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times and Real Radio."

http://news.stv.tv/politics/218797-y...rendum-battle/

The scaremongering by the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis seems to be working - for the YES campaign!
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MatureStudent36
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#1510
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
"Yes campaign gains ground in latest independence referendum poll"

"Support has grown by two points since January to 36% and opposition has fallen by one point to 46%, while 18% were undecided, according to the Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times and Real Radio."

http://news.stv.tv/politics/218797-y...rendum-battle/

The scaremongering by the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis seems to be working - for the YES campaign!
And then it'll drop down to the thirty percent it's been stuck at for thirty years.
Why do you use the word scaremongering when obvious flaws are pointed out?


so we're getting told increased public spending in public. Yet they're saying cuts in private.

The SNP realise they have one shot at this and will deceive, lie and mis represent as all they need is a yes vote. After that they can just turn around and say 'we got our sums wrong.'
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Maths Tutor
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#1511
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
pleaee could you stop looking at the world from you're myopic insular outlook.
"myopic insular outlook" - that is the monopoly of the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis - Projecting Scotland to the world as 'Too small', 'Too poor' and 'Too stupid', every time they open their mouths.

No vision, no aspirations for their country whatsoever - Westminster knows what is best for you - you can't do anything on your own. That IS "myopic insular outlook".
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Maths Tutor
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
And then it'll drop down to the thirty percent it's been stuck at for thirty years.
Why do you use the word scaremongering when obvious flaws are pointed out?
How come support for independence INCREASED after the "obvious flaws" were "pointed out"?
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Maths Tutor
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#1513
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
And then it'll drop down to the thirty percent it's been stuck at for thirty years.
Why the blatant lying? You must be rattled?
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Maths Tutor)
How come support for independence INCREASED after the "obvious flaws" were "pointed out"?

Because all people have heard is more freebies. They'll get costed and realised that they're un attainable.

anyway. It's only a 2% increase. Hardly ground breaking. It was a lot higher than that after braveheart came out.


http://www.ipsos-mori.com/offices/sc...ependence.aspx
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MatureStudent36
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#1515
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
"myopic insular outlook" - that is the monopoly of the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis - Projecting Scotland to the world as 'Too small', 'Too poor' and 'Too stupid', every time they open their mouths.

No vision, no aspirations for their country whatsoever - Westminster knows what is best for you - you can't do anything on your own. That IS "myopic insular outlook".

Oh. I've got plenty of aspirations fir Scotland. You sadly don't have a monopoly on Scottishness.

You are aware we've produced two out of the last three prime minsters aren't you?
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cowsforsale
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(Original post by Jaddos)
An interesting angle might be how the debate has changed since the problems in the Euro zone. Europe will probably be less welcoming to small new members these days.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Actually, the Luxembourg Foreign Minister voiced a differing opinion (which was misrepresented by the BBC no less).

“As we are all facing serious economic and social challenges , this is a time for solidarity between Member States of the EU and within Member States, rather than for going separate ways. This being said, Scotland’s constitutional future is a matter to be decided by the people of Scotland. But its future within the EU is a matter for the whole EU and can thus only be determined with the agreement of all Member States.”
On the other hand, I can't imagine rUK are painting themselves in a good light with the constant threat of leaving the E.U.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by cowsforsale)
Actually, the Luxembourg Foreign Minister voiced a differing opinion (which was misrepresented by the BBC no less).



On the other hand, I can't imagine rUK are painting themselves in a good light with the constant threat of leaving the E.U.


The uk is a net contributor. So don't believe all of the European federalist hype. The Germans need the uk in Europe so hopefully we'll get control of our fishing grounds back fir starters.
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Maths Tutor
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Because all people have heard is more freebies. They'll get costed and realised that they're un attainable.
The people still believing the "freebies" when the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis have been 'pointing out the obvious flaws' so loudly and so often and for so long?

The people of Scotland can't be that stupid can they?
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Maths Tutor
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
And then it'll drop down to the thirty percent it's been stuck at for thirty years.
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
It's only a 2% increase. Hardly ground breaking. It was a lot higher than that after braveheart came out.
So it hasn't been stuck at 30% for the last 30 years?
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Maths Tutor)
The people still believing the "freebies" when the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis have been 'pointing out the obvious flaws' so loudly and so often and for so long?

The people of Scotland can't be that stupid can they?

Never under estimate what people will vote for when promised freebies. They've voted labour in enough times on that one... But even labour understands that our spending has been unsustainable. The SNP doesn't have to think long term though does it.


the numbers don't add up do they maths tutor. But you know that don't you but you don't care do you? You only care about your nationalistic dream don't you?
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