Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    That is rough, 'new' British society. The working class have always done that, they simply get more attention now. The other classes do not do this and tend to have more decency. I suggest you start meeting other people.

    I would not ban the hijab as people in Britain only stopped wearing head scarves after the 50's.
    However I would actively discourage it as it does make a large cultural rift and as a result increase cultural tension. If you look at the Chinese community in the UK, they have always integrated with ease because they have never opposed or criticized the culture they were moving into. The hijab or Niq'ab on the other hand does the opposite as is a clear statement of cultural disapproval which is emphasized as not all Muslims wear it, and seeing that the Muslim community is 'new' to this country, the last thing people want to do is to try to set them apart.
    You cannot compare compare Islam and the hijab to the Chinese community since a quite a few Chinese people are muslim and wear the hijab.

    You are underestimating people if you think a headscarf can make such a big difference to cultural relations. The hijab is not a statement of cultural disapproval it is religious expression. You are confusing religion and culture. People in muslim countries like Pakistan are also allowed freedom of religious expression shown by the large number of churches and people wearing crosses there are, the only difference is that the hijab is alot more noticeable than crosses, skull caps or turbans.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lonely14)
    It's condemning the vanity and the arrogance which comes with having lots of money, people who like to keep their wealth to themselves and not give to charity.

    You can be rich, humble and generous at the same time.

    Your example of having a iphone is quite judgemental and rather ridiculous , sir.
    I agree iphone lol!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I couldn't care less. I don't see it as oppression, just a different culture. Not all societies do, nor perhaps ever will, subscribe to Western liberalism.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosi M)
    The reasons for wearing it.. there are loads and I do know some of the reasons in my head but I want to answer that question properly to you so i'll get back to you in a while with a proper answer

    You don't believe in God.. fair enough ok. But you have to understand many people did and do and over a 1000 years ago when it was revealed in the Quran about covering up, people saw it very important obeying Gods orders and since then women have covered them selves up. You think its men trying to control women only because you don't believe in God.. but i think you should think outside what you think and think at a wider level.

    cool, I will be waiting for that answer

    I have thought about it many times to be honest, and I think I'll always be an atheist. However, the existence of God is a whole different issue

    I don't think it's men trying to control women only because I don't believe in God.

    That's the case most of the time in most religions and societies.
    Men were always controlling women and women were always thought to be inferior.
    Not saying that Islam regards women as inferior; but many people use to in many societies and cultures and some still do.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emmak7)
    As I said, I don't have a great knowledge of Islam, and I do understand that many verses can be taken out of context but I have read verses that actually tell women to cover up, right?

    I'm not saying you are being forced to wear by a man. But it was a man that came up with the rule of covering up.
    What's a way to keep other men from looking at my woman?
    Cover her up so other men can't look at her!
    Doesn't it make perfect sense?

    I find that women tend to dress like that to feel good about themselves, to fit in and yeah to get attention. Let's face it, the majority of women are insecure and yes I do blame modern society and the media for that.
    They need to learn to love themselves, not hide themselves.
    Yeah your right. There are lots of verses in the Quran which tell women to cover up. But there are also verses which order both men and women to "lower their gaze"

    "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah (swt) is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; (Qur'an 24:30-31)

    &please don't judge Islam by cultures seriously. Its a beautiful religion and just spoilt by certain people and what they do.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emmak7)
    cool, I will be waiting for that answer

    I have thought about it many times to be honest, and I think I'll always be an atheist. However, the existence of God is a whole different issue

    I don't think it's men trying to control women only because I don't believe in God.

    That's the case most of the time in most religions and societies.
    Men were always controlling women and women were always thought to be inferior.
    Not saying that Islam regards women as inferior; but many people use to in many societies and cultures and some still do.
    No problem, gonna have to make my answer good then!

    Yep, lets not debate about the existence of God.. had to many of those debates with my biology teacher.. its a dead end!

    & your right.. i agree with you Men have always been the ones in control.. to such an extent that in Arabia before the prophet came, the birth of a girl was such an embarrassment and shameful thing that fathers used to bury their own daughters alive. These people were'nt Muslims by the way.. after the prophet came this was eventually stopped. In saudi arabia, there is still a graveyard where all the babies were buried.. quite sad.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    This isn't an issue of morals, it's an issue of scriptural fact. The Quran is very clear on personal wealth, and I find it very odd indeed that people feel the need to dress modestly because the Quran instructs them to, yet at the same time indulge themselves in consumerist nonsense such as Iphones and whatever else. It's a massive contradiction. If the Quran is the word of god (and of course I do not believe it is), then 99% of Muslims in the UK will burn in hellfire for eternity because of their attachment to wealth. It's ridiculous.
    I disagree. After all, giving money to charity is compulsory in Islam and they could always be forgiven about having an Iphone if they pray enough

    That's a good thing about religion, innit?
    Do what the hell you like, and just before you die, ask forgiveness for everything and you'll go to heaven.

    You are being a bit harsh though. No one follows every single thing in their religion, if that was possible, it would probably defeat the purpose of some religions.
    If God is forgiving, what would he forgive if you never sinned?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lonely14)
    It's condemning the vanity and the arrogance which comes with having lots of money, people who like to keep their wealth to themselves and not give to charity.

    You can be rich, humble and generous at the same time.

    Your example of having an iphone is quite judgemental and rather ridiculous , sir.
    On judgement day, how is a Muslim, or Christian for that matter, going to explain their purchase of an iPhone to Allah/God when a starving child in Sudan could have used that money to stay alive?

    "Err, yeah, an iPhone was more important to me than the starving child".

    I can't see him looking to kindly on that. Hellfire it is.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosi M)
    Yeah your right. There are lots of verses in the Quran which tell women to cover up. But there are also verses which order both men and women to "lower their gaze"

    "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah (swt) is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; (Qur'an 24:30-31)

    &please don't judge Islam by cultures seriously. Its a beautiful religion and just spoilt by certain people and what they do.
    I can't argue with that as I feel that I would have to read the Quran or at least do a lot of research on the religion before I can decide whether it's a beautiful religion or not.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emmak7)
    I disagree. After all, giving money to charity is compulsory in Islam and they could always be forgiven about having an Iphone if they pray enough

    That's a good thing about religion, innit?
    Do what the hell you like, and just before you die, ask forgiveness for everything and you'll go to heaven.

    You are being a bit harsh though. No one follows every single thing in their religion, if that was possible, it would probably defeat the purpose of some religions.
    If God is forgiving, what would he forgive if you never sinned?
    Now we're getting into the contradictions of religion. My very point.

    None of it makes any sense, which is why I hold it in nothing but utter contempt.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emmak7)
    I can't argue with that as I feel that I would have to read the Quran or at least do a lot of research on the religion before I can decide whether it's a beautiful religion or not.
    I'll save you some time. It's not. Practically every page contains something about that lovely chap Allah damning someone to hell.

    Personally, I find the notion of any religion that talks of homosexuals being evil, and of non-believers burning in hell (or anyone burning in hell, for matter) being a beautiful one to be very offensive.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    What country are you wearing it in? :confused:
    Because last time I checked women in the UK have equal rights and are far from objectified / or want to be objectified and use it to their advantage........
    Do you just wear the hijab or do you also have strict rules about clothes and make up?
    Also, it does limit your level of integration as it shows how you feel about our culture.

    I am sure many non-immigrants wear the hijab, but I am yet to meet one who has not been influenced by their parents or past culture.
    HELLO!

    I am a non immigrant.
    I wear the hijab.
    My parents didnt want me to.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Hijabs are fine by me, they're no problem at all, as long as it's the woman's choice as to why she's wearing it.

    And the Niqab, if they want to wear it, then I guess nobody has any right to stop them, I mean I can wear whatever I choose to and if somebody told me otherwise i'd argue against them.
    But they do result in any kind of personal expression, emotion and interaction being almost or completely lost.
    I personally don't feel as though I would choose to approach a girl/woman wearing a Niqab, not in the same way I might approach a girl wearing everyday average clothes.
    They make the women wearing them very unapproachable and to me it feels as though they're kind of separating themselves from the rest of society. As I think people of other religeons/races will leave them to it, rather than choose to approach and mingle with them.

    But as I said, I don't have a problem with anybody wearing one as it doesn't affect me, but it would probably result in me choosing to leave them to it which means i'd never get to know a potentially really nice person, which is a shame.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nad313)
    You cannot compare compare Islam and the hijab to the Chinese community since a quite a few Chinese people are muslim and wear the hijab.

    You are underestimating people if you think a headscarf can make such a big difference to cultural relations. The hijab is not a statement of cultural disapproval it is religious expression. You are confusing religion and culture. People in muslim countries like Pakistan are also allowed freedom of religious expression shown by the large number of churches and people wearing crosses there are, the only difference is that the hijab is alot more noticeable than crosses, skull caps or turbans.
    Yes I can compare them as it is such a tiny minority of Chinese that wear them, just like white British.

    The hijab is a statement of cultural disapproval, you said so before especially with your comments on feeling liberated in this society. You also showed how you feel about men, which many men would be offended at as you think so little of them.

    Also, it is incredibly ironic that you complain about men treating women like meat yet mention Pakistan......:rolleyes:


    (Original post by evilzadi)
    HELLO!

    I am a non immigrant.
    I wear the hijab.
    My parents didnt want me to.
    You wear it because.......???
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    On judgement day, how is a Muslim, or Christian for that matter, going to explain their purchase of an iPhone to Allah/God when a starving child in Sudan could have used that money to stay alive?

    "Err, yeah, an iPhone was more important to me than the starving child".

    I can't see him looking to kindly on that. Hellfire it is.
    :rolleyes: If people started giving all of their money to charity, a time will come when they will be the one asking for charity.

    In Islam, only a small and manageable part of your earnings is given to charity, which is compulsory, and once it is done, Allah is not stopping you to spend a bit of money on yourself to fulfil your needs. An iphone is becoming a basic need in Modern Europe as some else pointed out, It runs many useful applications, It's not just a feature of extravagance.

    The fact is poverty has always existed and always will be a part of the human world. And giving charity is way of showing that you care about the poor, but you have to think of yourself and your family as well - you can't just give your every penny to other people. Now please :hand:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    I'll save you some time. It's not. Practically every page contains something about that lovely chap Allah damning someone to hell.

    Personally, I find the notion of any religion that talks of homosexuals being evil, and of non-believers burning in hell (or anyone burning in hell, for matter) being a beautiful one to be very offensive.
    lol ok thanks

    I tend to be less quick to judge. I've always wondered why there was so much hatred towards non believers, since we're only using our "God given" reason to conclude that he doesn't exist.

    The thing with religion is that it can interpreted in many different ways and not many things should be taken that literally.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    On judgement day, how is a Muslim, or Christian for that matter, going to explain their purchase of an iPhone to Allah/God when a starving child in Sudan could have used that money to stay alive?

    "Err, yeah, an iPhone was more important to me than the starving child".

    I can't see him looking to kindly on that. Hellfire it is.
    Tbh, agree with others about 2.5% tax but on the hand, it is quite true to say that everything will be held to account on Judgement day. It is said in Islam, that day is to be surprising tbh at the sheer scale of information about you that will be left to decision about whether you're going to enter heaven.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Teveth)
    On judgement day, how is a Muslim, or Christian for that matter, going to explain their purchase of an iPhone to Allah/God when a starving child in Sudan could have used that money to stay alive?

    "Err, yeah, an iPhone was more important to me than the starving child".

    I can't see him looking to kindly on that. Hellfire it is.
    Wrong. This is the second time I have seen you peddling your lack of knowledge from your soapbox. You are allowed to enjoy the fruits of your (lawful) labour as long as you pay zakat and do not flaunt your wealth obscenely or excessively. In fact we are compelled to enjoy our God-given bounties. Thinking of Buddha, perhaps?

    47: 38 - "Behold, you are invited to spend in the way of God: but among you are some that are niggardly. Any who are niggardly are so at the expense of their own souls. And God is free of all wants but it is you that are needy.

    Sura Al-Furqan, or the Criterion: 67 - “those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes).”

    Sura Al-Israa: “Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard’s) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach so that thou become blameworthy and destitute.”
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jimbo1234)


    You wear it because.......???
    cos i want to
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by evilzadi)
    cos i want to
    What a mature and well thought out idea........
    Next time some little boys walk down the street I'll stand by my window and stroke off 'cause I want too...........:rolleyes:

    I think that answer though says a lot about some of the people who wear the Hijab.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: December 18, 2010
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.