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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    (Original post by BeyondandAbove)
    However smart, dumb, poor or rich you are... you still need the grades to get into uni in the first place.
    And uni is still a privilege.

    Having the right to go to uni doesnt mean everybody necessarily goes to uni
    just like
    Having the right to tattoo yourself all over doesnt mean everybody does
    And ofcourse uni is a privilege.
    Im not saying it isn't.
    My main point was the rse in fees might scare some people from poorer backgrounds away from considering higher education.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    How is it called empathising? I'm in the exact same position as them - I'm just not blinded by big numbers and am able to analyse information, something I'd hope any prospective university student could do. If they saw it as a "black hole" then they really are clueless.
    Im in the exact same positin too and living in inner city london i do witness a lot of people going on and on about how uni has become 'impossible' for them, particularly because i dont think the media has been propogating this issue in a positive light and therefore perceptions are largly biased.
    Its just sad to see aspirations floating down the drain. Im quite a socialist in my views and therefore hope to see a 'better for all' approach.
    But then thats just me.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Well if you aren't very smart then you are not as deserving as the smart people and hence no, you do not deserve to go to university. Whilst I am not saying anyone with less than AAA shouldn't be allowed into university, the current situation is such that people with CCCs or lower are getting into "university" doing doss courses and end up on the dole instead of using that time in a more vocational learning environment that would suit them better.
    Shipman was a very smart doctor he was also a serial killer but because he was smarter than Person X he got to go university. Nice to note, Shipman made a huge contribution to society by killing hundreds.
    The merit of deserving something is not based on Academia alone, nonetheless Academia plays a substantial role but the best universities take much more into account including personality, extra-cirriculars etc. This is what defines deservement - not "smart" alone.
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    Nobody's saying it will 'prevent', only 'deter' poorer students.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Yes, Gordon Brown selling off gold reserves at bottom price, not storing anything for a rainy day, telling banks to lend more so he could beam at the cameras whilst telling them how many more people had mortgages thanks to him and proclaiming he had ended boom and bust had nothing to do with the UK's recession.
    I agree with you, obviously it wasnt the bankers fault alone, Gordon Brown and probably many other factors did contribute; but i do believe they had a part to play.
    Unfortunately it is still a horrible affair that the taxpayers are suffering.
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    It's a convenient fig leaf and makes the students who expect to be in the middle income bracket feel morally superior demonstrating to help the poor, it makes me laugh! They know the poor are better off under the new system, they just think we are too thick to realise it. The graduates who get paid the most will pay back the most, that's what they don't like. Simples lol.
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    Well, say someone was on about 26k and had to pay back their student loans (not sure how much percent but it's going to be about 100 pounds a month like now, maybe more) then they had to pay for a mortgage/rent, potential children, everyday groceries etc. it is going to deter people because you aren't going to have disposable income as that will go to your tuiton fees for about 30 years (presuming you stay on same lower 20k earnings).
    I can see why people are getting put off University now, and it's not just the 'poorer people'- lots of people at my 6th form are dropping out (mostly middle class people as there are no lower class neighborhoods in the catchment area) and as seen as there are no jobs for young people I don't see how the government is planning to pay a surge in unemployment.

    It is stupid to suggest it deters just poor people, because you don't even pay it back till you are a graduate and they get grants. Should be detering the middle class if anything because they'll be even more in debt as they don't get any grants and mummy and daddy won't pay for it.

    Urgh, I agree with tuition fees being there - but not to these amounts. I think we'll find that a lot of courses will become 'exceptional circumstances' for the £9000 fees.

    I think the rises are ideological, to compete with American Universities (because they're on a whole better than ours) so only select people enter UK Universities. Tbh, tuition fees being treated like a 'market' isn't right - US may do it, but theirs are private Unis...

    Sorry for my ranting
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    (Original post by miiiiil)
    They totally shouldnt give poorer families free tuition as the payment has nothing to do with what money you have available to you and doesn't help anyone go to uni as they may still struggle with maintenance. Instead they should just get bursaries or grants for living expenses.

    Its basically just unfairly throwing money at poor students to get them to go to uni.

    The REALLY unfair part is that it is basically giving the money to the poorer students AFTER the course is finished, as thats when they would have to pay it back!
    :confused:Erm, I don't know how to break this to you, but they will be giving poor students much higher maintenance grants for living expenses which do not have to be paid back EVER!

    "As for basically just unfairly throwing money at poor students to get them to go to uni" and as for the rest of it, Dude I can only assume you are drunk, or high as you are so ill informed it's embarrassing.:doh:
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    If you are earning 26K, then you wouldn't pay £100/month or £1200/year. You would pay £37.50/month or £450/year It would basically mean paying for an expensive contract phone, or a couple of day's worth of food shopping
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    :confused:Erm, I don't know how to break this to you, but they will be giving poor students much higher maintenance grants for living expenses which do not have to be paid back EVER!

    "As for basically just unfairly throwing money at poor students to get them to go to uni" and as for the rest of it, Dude I can only assume you are drunk, or high as you are so ill informed it's embarrassing.:doh:
    More than the current system allows? If so, then yes it is a bad idea to give free tuition and higher maintenance grants. Id rather take the latter tbh. Poorer students will struggle more at university, though should hopefully be able to pay the loan off at the same rate of their peers, if earning the same amount. This is why I don't support the two years free tuition
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    (Original post by perrytheplatypus)
    Nobody's saying it will 'prevent', only 'deter' poorer students.
    That is so bloody condesending, you are basically saying we too thick to figure out that actually getting a good degree and a high paid job is so far beyond our imagination we can't see how the student loan system would work and benefit us and help us achieve our potential. Get over yourself.:cool:
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    Its not the fact that the fees have gone up to £9000 a year that pisses me off. Its the fact that the Welsh only pay £3000 (ish) and the Scottish get it for free which is partly funded by the english tax payers. Its just not fair! Why should the English be stuck with the high fees whilst the Welsh and Scottish get to sponge off of the english? Why cant they pay the same amount of money? or pool the savings the welsh and scottish get all together and share it out as a bursery for all students?

    Also, how ****ed off was I when I found out that if an english student applied to a welsh university they'd still have to pay the £9000 a year fees whilst a student from spain studying at a welsh university only has to pay £3000 ish?

    **** right off!

    If I had the money I'd jump ship whilst I still can! But of course I cant because I'm poor. ****ing awesome. And I ****ing voted conservative. FML. I only did that cause lets face it Labour ****ed up. The Lib Dems are basically an idealistic joke and the other parties had no real chance of getting in. Democracy my arse.
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    (Original post by mellie220)
    Well, say someone was on about 26k and had to pay back their student loans (not sure how much percent but it's going to be about 100 pounds a month like now, maybe more) then they had to pay for a mortgage/rent, potential children, everyday groceries etc. it is going to deter people because you aren't going to have disposable income as that will go to your tuiton fees for about 30 years (presuming you stay on same lower 20k earnings).
    I can see why people are getting put off University now, and it's not just the 'poorer people'- lots of people at my 6th form are dropping out (mostly middle class people as there are no lower class neighborhoods in the catchment area) and as seen as there are no jobs for young people I don't see how the government is planning to pay a surge in unemployment.

    It is stupid to suggest it deters just poor people, because you don't even pay it back till you are a graduate and they get grants. Should be detering the middle class if anything because they'll be even more in debt as they don't get any grants and mummy and daddy won't pay for it.

    Urgh, I agree with tuition fees being there - but not to these amounts. I think we'll find that a lot of courses will become 'exceptional circumstances' for the £9000 fees.

    I think the rises are ideological, to compete with American Universities (because they're on a whole better than ours) so only select people enter UK Universities. Tbh, tuition fees being treated like a 'market' isn't right - US may do it, but theirs are private Unis...

    Sorry for my ranting
    Somebody on £26k will pay only £37.50 a month. The limit to start paying back is £21k not £15k as it is now, so people will pay less each month.

    As it is written off after 30 years (25 years atm) even people on an average of £30k from immediately after leaving uni till the debt is wiped out will pay £24,300, so they wouldn't even get anywhere near paying £9k a year. My debt when I leave uni will be ~£24k (3*£3k tuition and £5k maintenance grant each year) so if I earned that amount I would pay it back in 17 years. Therefore a graduate under the new scheme would be better off than me because they pay the same over a longer period of time.

    Edit: for your example, somebody on £26k for the 30 years would pay back just £13,500 before it is wiped off. Under the current system they will reach £24,750 when the debt is wiped off after 25 years. Again, better off under the new system!!
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    (Original post by mellie220)
    Well, say someone was on about 26k and had to pay back their student loans (not sure how much percent but it's going to be about 100 pounds a month like now, maybe more) then they had to pay for a mortgage/rent, potential children, everyday groceries etc. it is going to deter people because you aren't going to have disposable income as that will go to your tuiton fees for about 30 years (presuming you stay on same lower 20k earnings).
    I can see why people are getting put off University now, and it's not just the 'poorer people'- lots of people at my 6th form are dropping out (mostly middle class people as there are no lower class neighborhoods in the catchment area) and as seen as there are no jobs for young people I don't see how the government is planning to pay a surge in unemployment.

    It is stupid to suggest it deters just poor people, because you don't even pay it back till you are a graduate and they get grants. Should be detering the middle class if anything because they'll be even more in debt as they don't get any grants and mummy and daddy won't pay for it.

    Urgh, I agree with tuition fees being there - but not to these amounts. I think we'll find that a lot of courses will become 'exceptional circumstances' for the £9000 fees.

    I think the rises are ideological, to compete with American Universities (because they're on a whole better than ours) so only select people enter UK Universities. Tbh, tuition fees being treated like a 'market' isn't right - US may do it, but theirs are private Unis...

    Sorry for my ranting
    Read the Browne report, and if the middle classes or anyone else is deterred then they are morons and have not checked the facts.
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    (Original post by ninjascantswim)
    Its not the fact that the fees have gone up to £9000 a year that pisses me off. Its the fact that the Welsh only pay £3000 (ish) and the Scottish get it for free which is partly funded by the english tax payers. Its just not fair! Why should the English be stuck with the high fees whilst the Welsh and Scottish get to sponge off of the english? Why cant they pay the same amount of money? or pool the savings the welsh and scottish get all together and share it out as a bursery for all students?

    Also, how ****ed off was I when I found out that if an english student applied to a welsh university they'd still have to pay the £9000 a year fees whilst a student from spain studying at a welsh university only has to pay £3000 ish?

    **** right off!

    If I had the money I'd jump ship whilst I still can! But of course I cant because I'm poor. ****ing awesome. And I ****ing voted conservative. FML. I only did that cause lets face it Labour ****ed up. The Lib Dems are basically an idealistic joke and the other parties had no real chance of getting in. Democracy my arse.
    :cool:We can thank Labour for devolution, we have no say over their affairs we just pay for them, but they get to vote on our affairs. I think they should be given their independence and allowed to sink or swim on their own.
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    (Original post by Maria11)
    Shipman was a very smart doctor he was also a serial killer but because he was smarter than Person X he got to go university. Nice to note, Shipman made a huge contribution to society by killing hundreds.
    The merit of deserving something is not based on Academia alone, nonetheless Academia plays a substantial role but the best universities take much more into account including personality, extra-cirriculars etc. This is what defines deservement - not "smart" alone.
    Because clearly his actions later on in life undermine his academic ability, and there is this retrospective crystal ball universities should have to filter out potential serial killers. :rolleyes:
    Personality et al are not the major indicator of who gets into university, academic achievement is. How many people with CCCs do you know who get into Oxbridge?Personality etc form a part of the application to differentiate between close candidates (usually in interviews) but there is a reason the top universities have a minimum entry requirement that is academic alone in nature which they work with, at best in a really exceptional case they may lower it slightly but if you don't have the grades and are all personality you are probably not getting the spot.
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    That is so bloody condesending, you are basically saying we too thick to figure out that actually getting a good degree and a high paid job is so far beyond our imagination we can't see how the student loan system would work and benefit us and help us achieve our potential. Get over yourself.:cool:
    Statistics show less well of people prefer not to take risks i.e. loans as much as more well off ones.

    Perhaps it's due to culture, but the point still stands.
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    They got money to blow people up all over the world.

    They got money to give to banks and corporations.

    They got money to pay for the royals.

    They got money to bail out Ireland.

    They got money to do loads of things. But there is no money to clear roads, there is no money to keep education affordable.... mmm... I see; they got money for themselves and their cronies, but they got no? money for us.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Because clearly his actions later on in life undermine his academic ability, and there is this retrospective crystal ball universities should have to filter out potential serial killers. :rolleyes:
    Personality et al are not the major indicator of who gets into university, academic achievement is. How many people with CCCs do you know who get into Oxbridge?Personality etc form a part of the application to differentiate between close candidates (usually in interviews) but there is a reason the top universities have a minimum entry requirement that is academic alone in nature which they work with, at best in a really exceptional case they may lower it slightly but if you don't have the grades and are all personality you are probably not getting the spot.
    What can i say? u have excellent comebacks for which i am too sleepy to answer
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    (Original post by Maria11)
    Im in the exact same positin too and living in inner city london i do witness a lot of people going on and on about how uni has become 'impossible' for them, particularly because i dont think the media has been propogating this issue in a positive light and therefore perceptions are largly biased.
    Its just sad to see aspirations floating down the drain. Im quite a socialist in my views and therefore hope to see a 'better for all' approach.
    But then thats just me.
    Although I think you get a higher grant if you live in London (not completely sure on that?), I can understand someone struggling to go to uni there.

    However, they have very little justification in saying they "can't afford" uni. I go currently, and had £2k in debt before I started with zero parental etc. support, and I am getting by ok - so anyone can. In the future, tuition fees will be higher, but the tuition fee loan will increase to match it, plus the maintainence loan etc. all increase. It will therefore be even easier for the poorest to go than it is now.

    I do have a little sympathy, but if people are going to decide whether to take such a big step forward in their life and go to university based on a sound-bite they heard on the news, they are too moronic to be at university anyway in my opinion.
 
 
 
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