For Indians and Pakistanis(and brits too if you want to comment) Watch

okapobcfc08
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#141
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#141
(Original post by A.K85)
And which argument is that?

There is no khalistan for sikhs, there is no liberation of kashmir for pakistan despite 62 years of aspiring for this goal. Just repeated failures.

So, Sikhs and muslims must be really pissed that they can't even defeat cow worshippers despite all the 'hot air' on this forum... :rolleyes:
You need to research whats going on in India today. The Congress Government has actively stopped Sikhs getting autonomy. What do you think these past disasters have been about. I dont get it, first you accept the disasters, then you ask why Sikhs dont get anywhere?
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okapobcfc08
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#142
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#142
(Original post by The Lyceum)
come on man, do you honestly think the Mughals just walked in and sat there happily until Gobind Singh came along?....


As for Hinduism/Sikhism link well I don't think one can call it a part of Hinduism now, but it didn't come out of nowhere I would have thought. I'm hardly amazing on theology though....

No i dont think that the Mughals just sat there. But I hold the view that the coming of the great 10th master was a catalyst for the demise of the Mughal empire. It had been sitting their comfortably, I mean come on, Aurangzeb was wreaking havoc without challenge.

Please, Sikhism is not Hinduism, no where near it, will someone plz accept this I feel like Im gettin nowhere lmao!!
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A.K85
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#143
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#143
(Original post by Arsenal4lif)
Jinnah had a pure dream .

He just wanted to uplift the Muslims of India who were back then being treated as second class so much praise should be given for this gentleman.

Secondly, as a Pakistani although we have much in common but our cultures are slowly but surely taking their own independent form.
Thirdly, Pakistan is not a failed dream yes we are going through bad times but we will rise back. This corrupt generation will die and new generation led by Bilawal~ Oxford grad will rise and we will insha Allah see a new Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
I agree. The dream is not complete. In the name of muslim brotherhood, the following points have to be done:

1.Pakistan must open its doors to the 150 million muhajirs from India.

2. Pakistan and Bangladesh must unite again under one flag.
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A.K85
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#144
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#144
(Original post by okapobcfc08)
No i dont think that the Mughals just sat there. But I hold the view that the coming of the great 10th master was a catalyst for the demise of the Mughal empire. It had been sitting their comfortably, I mean come on, Aurangzeb was wreaking havoc without challenge.

Please, Sikhism is not Hinduism, no where near it, will someone plz accept this I feel like Im gettin nowhere lmao!!
Smart guy, first you admit you know nothing about Sikhism or Hinduism theology, then you admit that you didn't even know that it was a Sikh general who crushed your sikh fanatics in operation bluestar. And yet you complain about... what?

Yes yes, you're a a real sardarji...
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A.K85
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#145
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#145
(Original post by Arsenal4lif)
Jinnah had a pure dream .

He just wanted to uplift the Muslims of India who were back then being treated as second class so much praise should be given for this gentleman.

Secondly, as a Pakistani although we have much in common but our cultures are slowly but surely taking their own independent form.
Thirdly, Pakistan is not a failed dream yes we are going through bad times but we will rise back. This corrupt generation will die and new generation led by Bilawal~ Oxford grad will rise and we will insha Allah see a new Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
I agree. Indian and Pakistan culture are completely different now.

Just look at the UK. Sikhs and Hindus have a tendency to have higher education, are well respected, lower crime rates and have higher economic status.

Whereas Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have mostly lower education, are not well respected, have higher crime rates, lower economic status and indulge in rioting in places like bradford or oldham and blow up London despite having higher opportunities for education. Now why is that.....? :rolleyes:
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Mikl6969
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#146
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#146
Jinnah was neither secular nor Religious.He believed in Democracy and the state being as religious as people wanted.He did believe in Religious Freedom for all. I wouldn't trust everything you read in a book especially if its more political than factual. The Idea of pakistan was born after the Muslims became alienated by the increasing religious tone of Congress Party, Jinnah left and formed his own party.Then Congress Party rejected Jinnah 14 points .Jinnah decided that states in which his party had won would not join the Union of India.Much like Hyderabad and Sikkim chose not to Join the Union of India.

Its not a Question of Should Pakistan have left India, as India didn't exist before 1947.Sure Pakistan India may have been part of the same empire just as America and Canada were part of the British Empire or France and Germany part of the Roman Empire at one time doesn't mean they should be 1 country.Should Pakistan merge with Ireland because both countries used to be part of the same Empire ?

Pakistans biggest problem has been that faced with a Neighbour 8 times it size it has spent far too much on defence partly driven by fear after India blocked all land and trade routed in 1947. Pakistan for most of its history has been headless but has been Key in many International events.It brought China and America together in the 1970s.Played a Key role in the Cold War both in the Afghan-Soviet War and U2 Plane.Pakistan also had the best performing Stock Exchange before the War on Terror spilled into its borders
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A.K85
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#147
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#147
(Original post by okapobcfc08)
No i dont think that the Mughals just sat there. But I hold the view that the coming of the great 10th master was a catalyst for the demise of the Mughal empire. It had been sitting their comfortably, I mean come on, Aurangzeb was wreaking havoc without challenge.

Please, Sikhism is not Hinduism, no where near it, will someone plz accept this I feel like Im gettin nowhere lmao!!
Hey sardarji, you should be more worried about your women here in the UK. The pakistanis are tricking them into converting to Islam and marrying them. Stop wasting hot air on the internet and apply your sikh warrior code at home first...
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4TSR
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#148
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#148
This reminds me of the pre-Israel times where Jews, Arabs (Muslims and christians) were all happy under the British mandate... as A very pro-Palestine activist I believe things were better under the British mandate... sadly
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okapobcfc08
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#149
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#149
(Original post by A.K85)
Smart guy, first you admit you know nothing about Sikhism or Hinduism theology, then you admit that you didn't even know that it was a Sikh general who crushed your sikh fanatics in operation bluestar. And yet you complain about... what?

Yes yes, you're a a real sardarji...
(Original post by okapobcfc08)
Let me tell you something. Gandhi, Vaidya, Brar, Zail Singh, tratiors of the Sikhs, bombed, smashed up, descrerated, annihalllted the Golden Temple and Akal Takht Git
Posted 2 days ago, I didnt know? Specsavers for you then. It seems to be that you are the only one blowing on hot air, I'm not going to bother to respond to your future posts now, unless they are significantly above the insulting level they have been.
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krish.x
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#150
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#150
(Original post by okapobcfc08)
mate come on, how do I skew. Show me the evidence that Sikhism is a branch of Hinduism. Since I find that insulting and hurtful, I have the right to ask for the evidence. No-one so far in this thread seems to answer my question, just pick the negative parts of the post and post their opinions.
Jainism is also said to have stemmed from Hinduism, but the religion is much more similar to Buddhism... In the same way that Christianity stemmed from Judaism. It's not an insult, nor is it a comment trying to tie you to Hinduism. But a lot of religions stem from a person or persons that were originally born into a different religion...
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krish.x
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#151
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#151
(Original post by A.K85)
I agree. Indian and Pakistan culture are completely different now.

Just look at the UK. Sikhs and Hindus have a tendency to have higher education, are well respected, lower crime rates and have higher economic status.

Whereas Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have mostly lower education, are not well respected, have higher crime rates, lower economic status and indulge in rioting in places like bradford or oldham and blow up London despite having higher opportunities for education. Now why is that.....? :rolleyes:
That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. I know more than enough Pakistanis that are as well off, if not more so than I. And I come from a high educated, high income family. As with any culture there are those that do well for themselves and those that do not. Your singling out is misinformed and misconstrued. Show me the statistics. :rolleyes:

The British media does however ,often propagate racism by stressing race and culture when addressing crime and that's why remarks like yours are made.
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Arsenal4lif
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#152
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#152
(Original post by A.K85)
I agree. Indian and Pakistan culture are completely different now.

Just look at the UK. Sikhs and Hindus have a tendency to have higher education, are well respected, lower crime rates and have higher economic status.

Whereas Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have mostly lower education, are not well respected, have higher crime rates, lower economic status and indulge in rioting in places like bradford or oldham and blow up London despite having higher opportunities for education. Now why is that.....? :rolleyes:

How do i know :rolleyes:
We are not related to Bengalis. We are not even related to Indians yo. You are dark and skinny and we are fairly the opposite.

and yeah i happen to live in KSA and Pakis like me all have SUVs and what not man.
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Indian_Prince
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#153
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#153
(Original post by kalaghoda)
Don't you think India should never have been partitioned into India and Pakistan? Hindus and Muslims were living together in peace for centuries before the British adopted the 'Divide and Rule' policy and influenced certain Muslim leaders to push for Pakistan.
Jinnah was the most secular person and didn't even practice Islam. I don't know how he ever got the idea of creating a separate state for Pakistan. I'm reading a book 'The true story of India's Partition'. The author has stated that Jinnah, on his deathbed, remarked, "I have got what I wanted, but I have committed the greatest blunder of my life".
I just feel that it would have been so much better and life would be so much easier today if India had never been partitioned.
yeh but, theres still muslims in india and all that, i think its aight, its not like calling a place a new name seperates it off (well theres the border but you know what i mean, soils the same haha), i do think it would have been better if it stayed as a whole country because in the end we should be backing each other up, not going against each other just for some land.
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The_Internet
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#154
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#154
(Original post by A.K85)
Oh you live in Saudi Arabia?

Plenty of pakitanis working as cleaners, construction workers, drivers, camel boys etc. Are the arabs letting you get the top jobs? I think not...
Actually, I've seen quite a few Indian people doing these jobs as well and you can tell by the accents as well

(Original post by A.K85)
Oh you live in Saudi Arabia?
Better to be dark and skinny than having genetic health problems among pakistani people and being part of a lower caste.:cool:
Actually, the caste issue is less of a problem in Pakistan than it is in India considering that it's came from Hindu traditions.

I'm not denying that there are rich Indians, but there are also rich Pakistanis

http://khula-raaz.blogspot.com/2010/...list-2010.html

Also, if you consider that after the partition, India had all the tools needed for a modern country, Pakistan was left with basic agriculture. I haven't got any "genetic defects", nor do my family and the (nice) Indians I do know, I get on very well with who only have slightly darker skin than mine
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Tinkle
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#155
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#155
oh for god sake! at the end of the day regardless if your a hindu, muslim or sikh, we are all human. Who has created these rifts, these arguments, these meaningless situations? Us, we have. Were the next generation, if we cant step up and move up from these silly things then they will never end! i mean serioiusly, its like us asians just have a tendency to disagree and fight. Instead of blaming other people, look at yourself first. How can you make yourself a better person?
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how.did.i.get.here?
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#156
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#156
(Original post by Supernova441)
I'm just curious, if Punjab was to become a separate country would you want all the Hindus and Muslims to leave too and for it just to be Sikh?
i wouldnt want the hindus and muslims to leave, before the british took over maharaja ranjit singh ruled a punjab where there were people of different religions living there, and it was successful/peaceful. in a ideal worlld thats how i would like it to be.
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how.did.i.get.here?
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#157
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#157
(Original post by krish.x)
Jainism is also said to have stemmed from Hinduism, but the religion is much more similar to Buddhism... In the same way that Christianity stemmed from Judaism. It's not an insult, nor is it a comment trying to tie you to Hinduism. But a lot of religions stem from a person or persons that were originally born into a different religion...
Sikhism is the complete opposite of Hinduism . One of the main reasons Sikhism came about was because guru Nanak disagreed with rituals and idol worship that the Hindu people were following and the caste system and the fact that Hinduism is a henotheistic? religion
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krish.x
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#158
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#158
(Original post by how.did.i.get.here?)
Sikhism is the complete opposite of Hinduism . One of the main reasons Sikhism came about was because guru Nanak disagreed with rituals and idol worship that the Hindu people were following and the caste system and the fact that Hinduism is a henotheistic? religion
Yes, but the point is Guru Nanak was born a Hindu. He may not have agreed, but that is generally what is meant by 'it stems from...' I don't think the other poster was trying to insult Sikhism by tying it to Hinduism. The point was merely that Hinduism came first and by birthright it was a Hindu that began Sikhism as a religion...

PS apologies, my earlier post was a tad misleading in terms of the analogy used to Judaism vs Christianity, since one simply believes the Messiah has been reborn and the other is still waiting.
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The Lyceum
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#159
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#159
(Original post by krish.x)
Yes, but the point is Guru Nanak was born a Hindu. He may not have agreed, but that is generally what is meant by 'it stems from...' I don't think the other poster was trying to insult Sikhism by tying it to Hinduism. The point was merely that Hinduism came first and by birthright it was a Hindu that began Sikhism as a religion...
My god, thank you, yes! although the guy I was discussing (if you can call one person putting forth historical facts and the other one nobbing about...) this with seems completely unable to utilise his logical faculties.

It is weird though, I've never seen Sikhs outside of TSR deny this patently true fact, I
mean the early Sikhs being Hindu converts etc doesn't make Sikhism a part of Hinduism, nor does it invalidate either. Could it be that these are fundamentalists? Interesting, I wasn't even aware you could get fundamentalist hardheaded Sikhs. TSR
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krish.x
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#160
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#160
(Original post by The Lyceum)
My god, thank you, yes! although the guy I was discussing (if you can call one person putting forth historical facts and the other one nobbing about...) this with seems completely unable to utilise his logical faculties.

It is weird though, I've never seen Sikhs outside of TSR deny this patently true fact, I
mean the early Sikhs being Hindu converts etc doesn't make Sikhism a part of Hinduism, nor does it invalidate either. Could it be that these are fundamentalists? Interesting, I wasn't even aware you could get fundamentalist hardheaded Sikhs. TSR
[shrugs] Sometimes people just get defensive, especially over the internet and fail to realise that disputing a point doesn't mean the other user is trying to discredit the point, but simply contributing a different perspective of it.
The poster you were debating with merely became defensive because they thought you were attacking them and they let their emotions get the better of their rationality. It doesn't justify you ****ging them off and calling them a knob though.

Look at this thread for example. The OP was basically saying that Pakistan and India should ultimately get on better, because as neighbouring countries that were once the same country... (though OP's point was maybe the partition should never have happened the gist is about better coexistence at the core of the topic). And I agree completely. It's sad that ignorance and miscommunication gives rise to prejudice and unfounded grudges. This leads to petty 'an eye for an eye' scenario that inevitably leads to bad relations and people make examples out of the bad of the opposing side to base their beliefs on instead of focusing on the good both sides have to offer. :rolleyes:
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