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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    The hand-slapping was a joke, mostly. Catching people with elbows is a valid technique but it's not limited to wing tsun. It was pretty big in old school muay thai but eventually it stopped being practical because people were getting hit too quickly and not able to properly defend themselves trying to block punches with their elbows. .

    There are various techniques in wing tsun ( and various martial arts) that you will never see in the UFC because of rules and restrictions applied to contestants - that was just one simple example. Martial arts was never about structured restricted evironments- it was about self defence in the real world plain and simple. You wont always come up against someone that is exactly your same weight, wearing padded gloves and protected from real injury by a referee - again you are mixing up a sport with martial arts.

    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    I don't get involved in street fights. Not my thing, I want to fight people who train so I can be better than everyone else. I don't view martial arts as a practical thing, I've never needed to defend myself. I view martial arts as a competition, to be better than everyone else. I don't discount self-defence martial arts but to say that a wing-tsun guy could beat a boxer in a fair, even fight would just be false, You simply refuse to believe that.
    I dont get involved in them either, most martial artists avoid conflict wherever possible - not just for their own safety, but also because of the risk or permanatly damaging someone and getting locked up for a 10 yr stretch. But in the situation you describe (ie a fight in which you are defending yourself) martial arts are at their most valuable. As oppossed to a sporting spectacle.

    And there would never be a 'even fair fight' between two styles even in the spectacle of the UFC -one guy is often far stronger , faster and more talented than anyone else (see andersen silva) The outcome has little to do with the style he uses in a rules based environment.
    The whole point of martial arts is that a 130 pound chinese/japanese man can disable a 200 pound guy with trained techniques - thats what endeared the West to asian martial arts in the first place. UFC just removes most of these effective techniques by turning it into a rules based sport. Like i said - try your sport out against a high level trained martial artist and see how that serves you, you have plenty of opportunity to do so.
    Your theory on the effectivenss of a system based on what two money hungry guys to in a cage and a controlled environment is brainless frankly and for that reason ive grown bored trying to educate you. Ill let you get back to youtube.
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    Banned moves in the UFC:

    Kick, stomp, or knee the head of an opponent who is on the ground
    • Punch an opponent in the neck, spine, or back of the head
    • Slam an opponent onto his head or neck
    • Head-butt an opponent
    • Strike an opponent with a downward elbow (although other elbow strikes are legal)
    • Stick their fingers into the cuts of their opponents

    Also there's a referee, a controlled enviroment, weight classes etc.

    Take all of these away and then you'll see that there is no real best martial art. The only way to be the best is through experience and reacting in the correct way in any given situation in a conflict.

    Just train at striking - get grappled / taken to the floor, probably end up with a broken arm or something, maybe worse if the rules above dont apply ^.

    Just train at grappling - you wont get near enough to a first rate striker to grab him. Also if you go to ground in any 'real life' situation and more than one person is involved in the conflict with you, you will get seriously injured, no doubt.

    Just sayin' :cool:
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    (Original post by lewisd43)
    Banned moves in the UFC:

    Kick, stomp, or knee the head of an opponent who is on the ground
    • Punch an opponent in the neck, spine, or back of the head
    • Slam an opponent onto his head or neck
    • Head-butt an opponent
    • Strike an opponent with a downward elbow (although other elbow strikes are legal)
    • Stick their fingers into the cuts of their opponents

    Also there's a referee, a controlled enviroment, weight classes etc.

    Take all of these away and then you'll see that there is no real best martial art. The only way to be the best is through experience and reacting in the correct way in any given situation in a conflict.

    Just train at striking - get grappled / taken to the floor, probably end up with a broken arm or something, maybe worse if the rules above dont apply ^.

    Just train at grappling - you wont get near enough to a first rate striker to grab him. Also if you go to ground in any 'real life' situation and more than one person is involved in the conflict with you, you will get seriously injured, no doubt.

    Just sayin' :cool:

    i think you missed a few big ones form your list, fishooking, groin strikes etc

    But you have effectively exemplified the point i was making. The idea of converting martial arts into a sport is to santise fighting conditions as much as possible to A make the fight more watchable B get a wider viewing audinece of laymen C and reduce the variotions available in the contestants.

    In the original UFCs there was no matched up weight categories.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    There are various techniques in wing tsun ( and various martial arts) that you will never see in the UFC because of rules and restrictions applied to contestants - that was just one simple example. Martial arts was never about structured restricted evironments- it was about self defence in the real world plain and simple. You wont always come up against someone that is exactly your same weight, wearing padded gloves and protected from real injury by a referee - again you are mixing up a sport with martial arts.
    Eastern martial arts maybe were about self-defence but that's not true of all martial arts or how it is nowadays. Boxing, wrestling etc. were created for competition. BJJ, Judo etc. nowadays is often practised solely for competition. You narrowing down martial arts into just self-defence is ridiculously short-sighted.

    I dont get involved in them either, most martial artists avoid conflict wherever possible - not just for their own safety, but also because of the risk or permanatly damaging someone and getting locked up for a 10 yr stretch. But in the situation you describe (ie a fight in which you are defending yourself) martial arts are at their most valuable. As oppossed to a sporting spectacle.
    You make it seem like 'MMA martial arts' are useless in those situations though. I could just as easily get a thai clinch on some guy trying to attack me and then go to town on him. Again, the 'MMA martial arts' are not just for 'sporting spectacle' they're legitimately useful. This isn't for show (unlike a certain youtube video posted not too long ago olololololol >_>)

    And there would never be a 'even fair fight' between two styles even in the spectacle of the UFC -one guy is often far stronger , faster and more talented than anyone else (see andersen silva) The outcome has little to do with the style he uses in a rules based environment.
    Well MMA has evolved so much so that it's very rarely 'style vs style' anymore because to be able to compete at the highest level you need to be well-versed in at least 3 different martial arts. It's more about proficiency in those styles and how easily you can neutralise the other guy's style. The thing about the 'fair fight' is nonsense too. Firstly, of course some people are going to be 'more talented' than others... but that's directly related to their skill, that doesn't make it unfair. How do you even judge 'talent' anyway? Silva, aside from his pretty long reach, isn't physically much more able than others.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ4XxrP-gaU

    Firstly, mute the music. Secondly, look how easily Silva gets dominated in the first four and a half rounds. This isn't a guy with an unfair physical advantage, just a ton of skill. Then we have this guy Frankie Edgar, the lightweight champion who fights at his natural weight class. EVERYONE he fights is bigger than him, most notably his latest opponent Gray Maynard probably weighed around 25 pounds more than him by the time they actually fought but Edgar still won because he was more skilled. It's almost like the only fighter you know is Anderson Silva... >_>

    The whole point of martial arts is that a 130 pound chinese/japanese man can disable a 200 pound guy with trained techniques - thats what endeared the West to asian martial arts in the first place. UFC just removes most of these effective techniques by turning it into a rules based sport. Like i said - try your sport out against a high level trained martial artist and see how that serves you, you have plenty of opportunity to do so.
    That may have been the whole point of Eastern martial arts but it's not true of all martial arts, or martial arts in general. We have weight classes for Judo, BJJ etc. Are they not martial arts now? High level trained martial artist? You mean like BJJ world champion Demian Maia, or Judo olympian Ronda Rousey? These are highly trained martial artists. If you mean, trying it out on wing tsun guys then why? It's not realistic. I'm never going to start a fight with anyone who hasn't specifically agreed to come into a ring/cage with me so it makes no sense. Also, stop calling it UFC. UFC is just an organisation, not a sport.

    Your theory on the effectivenss of a system based on what two money hungry guys to in a cage and a controlled environment is brainless frankly and for that reason ive grown bored trying to educate you. Ill let you get back to youtube.
    I see they teach you a lot about respect and humility at your classes huh. You've only ever heard of one fighter and you think you're an authority on MMA. The simple fact is that it's one guy vs another guy in a test of skill. No wing tsun guy could ever succeed in MMA. Succeed on the streets sure, but I could just as easily do that by carrying a knife or not getting into fights. What you consider 'real fighting' I consider mindless street violence. It's unrealistic to me because it's never going to happen to me (and if it does, like hell some random untrained guy is going to beat me up). When in the world would a judo fighter for example start a fight with anyone from wing tsun? It's unrealistic. You keep talking about how in a 'real' fight wing tsun would be effective against judo but it's never going to happen because in 'real' fights it's one untrained guy being aggressive against a martial artist. What is realistic? The fact that at some point in the future I'm going to put myself in a ring or a cage and fight some other guy who is also well-trained in martial arts. Now in that case would a wing tsun practitioner succeed? Doubt it.
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    (Original post by Dr. Bassman)
    Eastern martial arts maybe were about self-defence but that's not true of all martial arts or how it is nowadays. Boxing, wrestling etc. were created for competition. BJJ, Judo etc. nowadays is often practised solely for competition. You narrowing down martial arts into just self-defence is ridiculously short-sighted.



    You make it seem like 'MMA martial arts' are useless in those situations though. I could just as easily get a thai clinch on some guy trying to attack me and then go to town on him. Again, the 'MMA martial arts' are not just for 'sporting spectacle' they're legitimately useful. This isn't for show (unlike a certain youtube video posted not too long ago olololololol >_>)



    Well MMA has evolved so much so that it's very rarely 'style vs style' anymore because to be able to compete at the highest level you need to be well-versed in at least 3 different martial arts. It's more about proficiency in those styles and how easily you can neutralise the other guy's style. The thing about the 'fair fight' is nonsense too. Firstly, of course some people are going to be 'more talented' than others... but that's directly related to their skill, that doesn't make it unfair. How do you even judge 'talent' anyway? Silva, aside from his pretty long reach, isn't physically much more able than others.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ4XxrP-gaU

    Firstly, mute the music. Secondly, look how easily Silva gets dominated in the first four and a half rounds. This isn't a guy with an unfair physical advantage, just a ton of skill. Then we have this guy Frankie Edgar, the lightweight champion who fights at his natural weight class. EVERYONE he fights is bigger than him, most notably his latest opponent Gray Maynard probably weighed around 25 pounds more than him by the time they actually fought but Edgar still won because he was more skilled. It's almost like the only fighter you know is Anderson Silva... >_>



    That may have been the whole point of Eastern martial arts but it's not true of all martial arts, or martial arts in general. We have weight classes for Judo, BJJ etc. Are they not martial arts now? High level trained martial artist? You mean like BJJ world champion Demian Maia, or Judo olympian Ronda Rousey? These are highly trained martial artists. If you mean, trying it out on wing tsun guys then why? It's not realistic. I'm never going to start a fight with anyone who hasn't specifically agreed to come into a ring/cage with me so it makes no sense. Also, stop calling it UFC. UFC is just an organisation, not a sport.



    I see they teach you a lot about respect and humility at your classes huh. You've only ever heard of one fighter and you think you're an authority on MMA. The simple fact is that it's one guy vs another guy in a test of skill. No wing tsun guy could ever succeed in MMA. Succeed on the streets sure, but I could just as easily do that by carrying a knife or not getting into fights. What you consider 'real fighting' I consider mindless street violence. It's unrealistic to me because it's never going to happen to me (and if it does, like hell some random untrained guy is going to beat me up). When in the world would a judo fighter for example start a fight with anyone from wing tsun? It's unrealistic. You keep talking about how in a 'real' fight wing tsun would be effective against judo but it's never going to happen because in 'real' fights it's one untrained guy being aggressive against a martial artist. What is realistic? The fact that at some point in the future I'm going to put myself in a ring or a cage and fight some other guy who is also well-trained in martial arts. Now in that case would a wing tsun practitioner succeed? Doubt it.

    I already said i dont want to wast anymore time explaining this to you - i have no interest in making further comparisons of a cheesy televised sport to proper martial arts. We could throw rugby and sumo wrestling into the mix if you like. A sportmen can master his disciple in a short space of time becuase the rules are restrictive and clearly laid out for him - all he has to do is watch video footage and follow a strict PT regeime- he can get away with watered down version of sport-level disciplines. UFC rules and points scoring favour the wrestler/grappler thats why its so mind numbingly brainless and boring to watch these days. Martial arts are dynamic systems designed to prepare that student for unpredictability, not a rule based environment. Ill leave ufc for the sports fans thanks, im glad those sorts of numingingly brainless people like yourself have no knowledge of or interest in proper martials arts in fact. End of.
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    You've just got to laugh at Chunners. They never get it.

    This thread comes up all the time, and the delusion and blind faith from the CMAs never ever changes. It's always about how sport degrades martial arts, and how Chunners would be so deadly outside of sport.

    But there is not one single shred of evidence to back that up. Every single piece of evidence seems to actually suggest that the opposite is true - that the training method of traditional chinese martial arts is by and large completely flawed and does not produce anything effective - and that the combat sport training method does.
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    I do Kickboxing and Wado-Ryu Karate. (I am a 3rd Dan Karate and a Brown belt in Kickboxing) in I find the two go very well together especially when it comes to sparring. I have also done Boxing, Jiu jitsu and a bit of Judo. Wado-Ryu is probably the best out of all of them, as its got quite a modern style, but it also has traditional elements to it as well. But it depends what your looking to get out of it there are many different styles out there. My advice would be to go to a couple of taster lessons in different clubs, and see what you prefer. There is a lot of variation between clubs now a days. Some will be very traditional, where others will be a lot more modern. You should soon find what you enjoy most
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    your previous experience certainly be an asset in doing taekwondo, so ju-jitsu or a form of kung fu (I have always wanted to trying praying mantis style kung which targets pressure points in the body) would be a good variation. Even trying something like Kali escrima (apparently kali was one of the styles used by bourne) might be possibility. Also look into additional weapon classes that the instructor may teach from the arnis stick to nunchucks
    There has also been a movement towards mixed martial art classes which would combine you previous skills and add submission holds and ground skills.
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    I've noticed a lot of posts on here knocking Judo or Kung-Fu which I think is stupid. Having trained in both I found them both incredibly demanding and useful. I'd say Judo is probably one of the toughest sports nevermind martial arts I've ever tried my hand at especially considering I play American Football. There's no rubbish martial art or fighting style and you'll find they're all useful and compliment each other very well. And tbh if you're prepared to knock one fighting style over the other then IMO you can't be much of a martial arts fan. I appreciate all martial arts in all their forms be it Judo at the Olympics to Tai Chi in a park in Beijing. Heck even Sumo I find interesting and if you ever do go to Japan I highly recommend either going to watch it live or visit a Sumo Training Stable. It's more than just big fat men pushing each other around that's for sure!
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    There's no rubbish martial art or fighting style and you'll find they're all useful and compliment each other very well.
    Of course there are inferior martial arts - style versus style competition has proven this; some work consistently and others fail consistently. Would you also say that no food is better than anything other food; is a nice, juicy steak not better than a tinned hotdog? MAs are a product being sold just like food. The idea that martial arts are above criticism or comparison is completely false.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Of course there are inferior martial arts - style versus style competition has proven this; some work consistently and others fail consistently. Would you also say that no food is better than anything other food; is a nice, juicy steak not better than a tinned hotdog? Martials are a product being sold just like food. The idea that martial arts are above criticism or comparison is completely false.
    Well being a vegetarian the steak v hot dog comparison doesn't work with me.

    Yes they can be compared but to say one is useless compared to the other is stupid. Having a few lessons in Wing-chun doesn't make you a better fighter than a Judo expert. Like I said having done many martial arts in the past but Karate the most, I'm a patron of all fighting styles hence I will be avidly following the Judo and TKD at the Olympics.

    It's like knocking one sport over the other. Some people are more talented at one sport over another. I mean my talents lie in contact sports like American Football, rugby, Martial Arts. Given the choice I'd have loved to have been a Football prodigy if only to amass the vast salary Premiership footballers get but I wasn't born with that talent. I appreciate the skills everyone has to offer across a whole range of disciplines and celebrate their success as appropriate. It would be a boring and incredibly competitive world if we all excelled in the same skills, sports, academic pursuits etc.
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    Well being a vegetarian the steak v hot dog comparison doesn't work with me.

    Yes they can be compared but to say one is useless compared to the other is stupid. Having a few lessons in Wing-chun doesn't make you a better fighter than a Judo expert. Like I said having done many martial arts in the past but Karate the most, I'm a patron of all fighting styles hence I will be avidly following the Judo and TKD at the Olympics.

    It's like knocking one sport over the other. Some people are more talented at one sport over another. I mean my talents lie in contact sports like American Football, rugby, Martial Arts. Given the choice I'd have loved to have been a Football prodigy if only to amass the vast salary Premiership footballers get but I wasn't born with that talent. I appreciate the skills everyone has to offer across a whole range of disciplines and celebrate their success as appropriate. It would be a boring and incredibly competitive world if we all excelled in the same skills, sports, academic pursuits etc.
    You still understand the meaning of the analogy.

    Not arguing with that - Wing Chun is a load of *******s, Judo is awesome. When was the last time you saw Wing Chun, or any CMA for that matter, do well in mixed martial arts competition (the proving ground for effectiveness in MAs)?

    The thing is martial arts are fighting first and sports second. They are all used for the same purpose - defeating an opponent without weapons (let's not focus on weapons training at the moment). The fact is that, for example, Muay Thai or Kyokushin Karate would equip you better for this purpose than TKD or Wing Chun.

    Also, aren't you the guy who advocated learning JKD with a distance learning programme? You can't be all that knowledgeable on the topic if you don't see the problem with that.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    You still understand the meaning of the analogy.

    Not arguing with that - Wing Chun is a load of *******s, Judo is awesome. When was the last time you saw Wing Chun, or any CMA for that matter, do well in mixed martial arts competition (the proving ground for effectiveness in MAs)?

    The thing is martial arts are fighting first and sports second. They are all used for the same purpose - defeating an opponent without weapons (let's not focus on weapons training at the moment). The fact is that, for example, Muay Thai or Kyokushin Karate would equip you better for this purpose than TKD or Wing Chun.

    Also, aren't you the guy who advocated learning JKD with a distance learning programme? You can't be all that knowledgeable on the topic if you don't see the problem with that.

    Martial Arts did start off as fighting styles but hopefully I'd like to think living in a civilised and modern society they would only ever need to be used for self-defence and organised sporting competition. You can't criticise one style over another without having studied them all so your argument is completely shallow and ignorant. You can't be much of a martial arts fan in that case.

    Considering that you compared Martial Arts with Studying a highly rigorous subject like Medicine, I don't think you're in any position to criticise me. Any moron like yourself could master a martial art with numerous hours of training but it takes a heck of a lot of studying over years and years aswell as the right mindset (i.e. ethical, communications, compassion and intelligence) to be a doctor and I doubt someone like yourself who is prepared to dismiss a fighting style practised by millions worldwide and has had a proven effectiveness would even have the intelligence to study Medicine.

    As for your argument about MMA, well that's just disorganised brawling for meatheads.
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    Kalaripayattu.
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    Martial Arts did start off as fighting styles but hopefully I'd like to think living in a civilised and modern society they would only ever need to be used for self-defence and organised sporting competition. You can't criticise one style over another without having studied them all so your argument is completely shallow and ignorant. You can't be much of a martial arts fan in that case.

    Considering that you compared Martial Arts with Studying a highly rigorous subject like Medicine, I don't think you're in any position to criticise me. Any moron like yourself could master a martial art with numerous hours of training but it takes a heck of a lot of studying over years and years aswell as the right mindset (i.e. ethical, communications, compassion and intelligence) to be a doctor and I doubt someone like yourself who is prepared to dismiss a fighting style practised by millions worldwide and has had a proven effectiveness would even have the intelligence to study Medicine.

    As for your argument about MMA, well that's just disorganised brawling for meatheads.
    You might as well as piss around doing Tai Chi or learning "lightsaber fighting" if that's your attitude.

    I train 12-14 hours a week, I read books, I discuss it, outside of class I practice uchikomi and drill movements, I do strength and conditioning training for martial arts - all in all I probably put nearly 20 hours a week into it. And no, not any idiot can achieve a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu or even a mid-level Dan grade in Judo - they are complex sciences and require a great time investment if you want to be anything more than a "weekend warrior".

    Huh, is that right?
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    You might as well as piss around doing Tai Chi or learning "lightsaber fighting" if that's your attitude.

    I train 12-14 hours a week, I read books, I discuss it, outside of class I practice uchikomi and drill movements, I do strength and conditioning training for martial arts - all in all I probably put nearly 20 hours a week into it. And no, not any idiot can achieve a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu or even a mid-level Dan grade in Judo - they are complex sciences and require a great time investment if you want to be anything more than a "weekend warrior".

    Huh, is that right?
    What do you want a medal or something?

    But I guess if you spend that much time training there mustn't be much else going in your life like a decent well-paid career. But hey aslong as you can brag about being able catch flies with chopsticks on an internet forum and completely dismiss other arts/styles because of course you know better having trained in every other fighting style in the world in your 12 hours a week or so which is far more than the years and years many trained masters have been doing.

    There's no point in arguing with an ignorant fool like yourself.

    As for the weekend warrior jibe well there I was thinking martial arts was meant to be accessible to everyone. There isn't a sign on a dojo or gym saying "piss off if you can't train more than 12 hours a week". I'd love to devote more time to Karate but given other committments and most importantly my studies and job prospects somehow wanting to train avidly in martial arts doesn't rank highly in my list of priorities and I guess that's the same for most people.

    Just because you train X number of hours a week doesn't make you more of a fan than the individual who attends a couple of sessions or week when he/she can afford the spare time away from their job and family responsibilities. It just means you have (far too much) more time on your hands than most of us.


    P.S. My 700th post!
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    What do you want a medal or something?

    But I guess if you spend that much time training there mustn't be much else going in your life like a decent well-paid career. But hey aslong as you can brag about being able catch flies with chopsticks on an internet forum and completely dismiss other arts/styles because of course you know better having trained in every other fighting style in the world in your 12 hours a week or so which is far more than the years and years many trained masters have been doing.

    There's no point in arguing with an ignorant fool like yourself.

    As for the weekend warrior jibe well there I was thinking martial arts was meant to be accessible to everyone. There isn't a sign on a dojo or gym saying "piss off if you can't train more than 12 hours a week". I'd love to devote more time to Karate but given other committments and most importantly my studies and job prospects somehow wanting to train avidly in martial arts doesn't rank highly in my list of priorities and I guess that's the same for most people.

    Just because you train X number of hours a week doesn't make you more of a fan than the individual who attends a couple of sessions or week when he/she can afford the spare time away from their job and family responsibilities. It just means you have (far too much) more time on your hands than most of us.


    P.S. My 700th post!
    You said the comparison to medicine didn't hold - I'm saying martial arts can be as much of a time investment (Hell, the average time for a black belt in BJJ is 10 years of consistent training, and by no means guaranteed - I know of a guy who it took 17 years of dedicated, consistent training; compare that to a 5-6 year medical degree). Personally, I have more respect for a legitimate BJJ black belt than a GP or other such.

    Accessible to everyone? Not necessarily - if you're too out of shape most MMA, Muay Thai and BJJ gyms will tell you to get yourself sorted out before coming to classes. At my old school my instructor told a seriously obese guy that he needed to lose at least four stone before he'd let him continue - the class is always going to be at the pace of the physically least able; if you're not up to par then you're dragging everyone else down with you.

    Catching flys with chopsticks? That's the kind of bull**** "martial arts" I was railing against - you think BJJ, Judo, Wrestling and Boxing are about catching flys with chopsticks? And you call me ignorant.

    I'm a post-graduate student. With the exception of lectures and seminars I'm free to choose when I study - two or three hours a night is not that huge of a blow to my life, social or academic, and it's better than wasting in front of the TV or getting drunk. Anyone can make the time to train with dedication as well as work/study. Are you, perhaps, offended because you're one of these lardy, two-hours-a-week "kata-specialists" (haha) that think they're a dedicated practitioner all the while ducking out of anything like hard sparring because of their "asthma"? Probably.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
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    It's pretty funny that you have such a narrow view of martial arts. You seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that people participate in martial arts not only to learn self defense but also for fun......... To me some of the high spinning kicks in Taekwondo look frickin awesome, I know they wouldn't be particularly useful in a fight but that doesn't stop them looking cool. To me things like BJJ or any other grappling martial arts look a tad boring and also a tad gay even though I know they are good for beating the crap out of people lol. So I would personally rather do taekwondo purely because it looks more enjoyable and rewarding even though I might know its a less effective martial art for fighting someone.

    So if I was answering the OP's question I would say, look at videos of various martial arts and see what floats your boat and do what looks most enjoyable to you. All martial arts teach self defence in different ways and it shouldn't matter which is more effective. If someone attacks you in the street they will not know any martial arts to a high level because if they did they would have learnt the value of discipline and wouldn't be attacking someone so whatever martial art you know will be sufficient to cream cracker them.
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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)
    It's pretty funny that you have such a narrow view of martial arts. You seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that people participate in martial arts not only to learn self defense but also for fun......... To me some of the high spinning kicks in Taekwondo look frickin awesome, I know they wouldn't be particularly useful in a fight but that doesn't stop them looking cool. To me things like BJJ or any other grappling martial arts look a tad boring and also a tad gay even though I know they are good for beating the crap out of people lol. So I would personally rather do taekwondo purely because it looks more enjoyable and rewarding even though I might know its a less effective martial art for fighting someone.

    So if I was answering the OP's question I would say, look at videos of various martial arts and see what floats your boat and do what looks most enjoyable to you. All martial arts teach self defence in different ways and it shouldn't matter which is more effective. If someone attacks you in the street they will not know any martial arts to a high level because if they did they would have learnt the value of discipline and wouldn't be attacking someone so whatever martial art you know will be sufficient to cream cracker them.
    It's in the name really, isn't it? Martial art. Martial = (from Mars, the Roman god of war) war, fighting, combat. Art = (from Latin Ars, meaning skill) skill. If it isn't a useful combat skill then discussing it as a martial art is meaningless. If it wouldn't help you beat someone's face to a mushy red paste, break bones and tear ligaments with a joint lock, or kill/render unconcious with a choke then it is not meaningful to talk about it as a combat skill. If I seem closed minded that's because your confusing useless dancing around with real fighting arts - go to any practitioner of Western medicine or surgery and compare what they do to homeopathy or crystal healing and you'll get a similar reaction.

    The number of people who have done a year or so of boxing and quit is pretty high - I'd bet on someone who did a year of boxing over someone who did ten in Tae Kwon Do. Straight, hook, cross, jab - it's not that hard to learn to an acceptable standard (Bruce Lee even said he'd put his money on someone with a year of boxing and a year of wrestling over someone who had practiced a TMA their entire life) - it's quite easy to encounter such a person in a day-to-day situation. Frankly TKD is a performance art - you might as well call ballet a martial art.

    Also, gay? Really? If you look at two men fighting and see something homoerotic then you should really be re-examining your own sexuality rather than calling out others. And it's probably boring because you don't understand what's going on - like watching chess if you don't know how to play yourself; personally I find watching Judo, Wrestling and BJJ to be incredibly interesting.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    It's in the name really, isn't it? Martial art. Martial = (from Mars, the Roman god of war) war, fighting, combat. Art = (from Latin Ars, meaning skill) skill. If it isn't a useful combat skill then discussing it as a martial art is meaningless. If it wouldn't help you beat someone's face to a mushy red paste, break bones and tear ligaments with a joint lock, or kill/render unconcious with a choke then it is not meaningful to talk about it as a combat skill. If I seem closed minded that's because your confusing useless dancing around with real fighting arts - go to any practitioner of Western medicine or surgery and compare what they do to homeopathy or crystal healing and you'll get a similar reaction.

    The number of people who have done a year or so of boxing and quit is pretty high - I'd bet on someone who did a year of boxing over someone who did ten in Tae Kwon Do. Straight, hook, cross, jab - it's not that hard to learn to an acceptable standard (Bruce Lee even said he'd put his money on someone with a year of boxing and a year of wrestling over someone who had practiced a TMA their entire life) - it's quite easy to encounter such a person in a day-to-day situation. Frankly TKD is a performance art - you might as well call ballet a martial art.

    Also, gay? Really? If you look at two men fighting and see something homoerotic then you should really be re-examining your own sexuality rather than calling out others. And it's probably boring because you don't understand what's going on - like watching chess if you don't know how to play yourself; personally I find watching Judo, Wrestling and BJJ to be incredibly interesting.
    I'd agree that taekwondo is more of a performance martial art but I don't understand why you are so vehemently against that? Performance martial arts look the best and are often the most fun. I used to do both thai boxing and XMA, I still do XMA because it looks ****in awesome but I got bored of thai boxing fairly quickly.

    And I think that two guys rolling around on the floor together is a tad gay, but thats just me.
 
 
 
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