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    Perhaps you can explain it to me, this time without the errors and crap from last time?
    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    Yes because when you were talking about what it felt to be British, you mentioned in a post above that it was feeling pride when seeing your national football team. I wasn't aware there was a British football team but thanks for revealing that to me...
    So in answer to my question, no you can't define what culture is for me.
    And by the way einstien I did not mention a British football team above.
    Learn to read.

    God Save The Queen is not really a national anthem.
    No, it's a christmas carol isn't it einstien?
    :rolleyes:

    Royalists all over the world, in the Dominions, use it.
    So?
    It's still a national anthem.

    The absence of a national holiday is simply an indicator of the underlying things.
    No, it's an indicator of the absence of a national holiday, nothing else, and quite common in most countries.
    Why do you feel that a national holiday, one day out of a year, makes for a national culture?
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    (Original post by EastMidlander)
    That doesn't sound ridiculous, I'm sure many people here could live happily in a different location for a year, and not feel to desperately homesick.
    I won't even pick up on the fact that you only said a year, and therefore could be interpreted as suggesting you have ties to the nation that are to strong to go away more than a year, but I will point out that it doesn't change who or what you are.
    If you did live in a small French or German town for a year you would be taking a little bit of our culture with you, because you are part of our culture, and our culture is part of you, and that little bit of culture could have an eefect on their culture.
    No matter how hard you tried you could never be the same as the people who had lived in that little town all their life.
    Well I only said a year not because I think I would miss Britain, were I away for longer than that, but my family. That would make me homesick.

    It's not something that manifests itself in all people, all of the time, I doubt that anyone here, no matter how patriotic, or nationalist, walks down the street with strong compulsions to sing god save the queen, and wave a union jack 24/7. That's not how it is.
    However, how did you feel on July 7th for example?
    Were you indifferent to what happened, apathetic to it all, or were glued to updates, feeling sick inside your stomache, or angry and wanting revenge, or filled with a sense of despair?
    Well on July 7th I was actually in France, but I was glued to the news reports of course, and I definately felt despair more than anything.

    When the national team scores a crucial goal in a match do you feel a sense of elation inside of you, or could you not be bothered?
    When you see a paper, do you read the British news on the front page, the British news on the back page, or flick to page 9 and read about the rest of the world first?
    I have to say that I really don't follow football at all in any shape or form, but it's nice when Andy Murray wins for example, although I wouldn't say it makes me feel elated by any means.

    We live in a time of apathy, where national pride and patriotism are supressed, and portrayed as synonymous with racism.
    Where people feel a sense of dirty shame if they are to openly supportive of their nation, it's considered vulgar, and crass, but you still find yourself gravitating towards your own people, you still listen to English based music (look at our charts), cheer when the nations sportsmen and women win, or go to the pub on English hours.
    You put your knife and fork on the plate, when the meal is over, not on the table cloth like other nations do, you find the things you evolved to love more aesthetically, than the things other cultures admire, the arts, landscapes, even the shape of a woman.
    This is all part and parcel of what it is.
    It doesn't require that you shave your head, and goose step through the streets with a big union jack, screaming "pakis go home", that's just an extreme cartoon variation of patriotism.
    I'm sure in your heart you are every bit the Brit, and you have no choice in it, because British culture is part of you, and you are part of it, and don't worry about the bnp, they wouldn't win an election in a one horse race.
    They don't represent Britain, or British culture.
    Well I know I'm definately British as a sort of fact that I know, like saying that I know I have green eyes for example, I just don't sometimes feel it especially strongly, and thats nothing to do with any feelings of shame, I just don't feel it. And almost every teenager on the continent listens to English music btw! (since it is the only decent music scene)

    I'm sure you feel just as British as many. You just don't feel a need to make a show of it.
    Lot's of people are the same, in fact some even say that it's a sign of insecurity in your nation to over do the flags etc.
    I'm as patriotic as they come, I love my nation and I want to protect and preserve it, but I haven't rushed out to get a union jack avatar yet.
    It doesn't make me feel any less of a patriot, because I am secure in my beliefs.
    Hmm... I'm really not that patriotic.

    *points finger*
    You've sold out on Britain, just to accomodate immigrant scroungers!!
    J/K
    I don't think your views are as strange as you feel, just that current society makes us feel strange about discussing such subjects, and all apologetic.
    Hah!

    I don't feel strange discusing it, but I know exactly where you're coming from with the whole apologetic angle. I don't feel it really applies to me, but on the whole it is without doubt a British phenomenon.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    The resort to ad hominem and smear in this thread is about the worst I've ever seen on TSR.

    A bigot is someone intolerant of opinions opposed to his own. I've said again and again that I think you guys who would choose multicult as ideal be allowed to, but you really ought to allow those who believe it to be folly the right to retain the traditional British community and identity. Jeesh!
    Well that got the desired effect. Interestingly, I didn't call anyone a racist bigot, or even imply that anyone contributing the thread was one. So you must be attributing the racist bigot label to yourself.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    I do not blame the immigrants for coming, but no matter how pleasant they are or how well behaved I do not want them here, because like most of them I am an ethnic-nationalist. Like them I want my homeland to remain a place for my people, unlike them I do not hypocritically move to someone else's land and engage in political and cultural lobbying to transform the politics and the public national identity of the host nation (this is true of all the major immigrant groups except the Chinese and to a lesser extent the Indians, who everywhere in their diaspora tend to keep their heads down and work hard, but stay out of politics and cultural pursuits).
    I like the way you make the sweeping generalisation about immigrants all arriving here and then wanting to destroy our culture and replace it with their own.

    If you do not blame the immigrants for coming, then how do you expect them to behave? Should they be second class citizens, inferior to the "natives". And, if there is not problem with them coming here, give me one good reason for them not having just as much say in cultural and political issues as other British people do.
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    Well I only said a year not because I think I would miss Britain, were I away for longer than that, but my family. That would make me homesick.
    That's all part and parcel of the same thing, cultural bonds, tribal bonds, family, etc.
    All very primitive instincts, but the none the less a part of what and who we are.
    Sometimes we forget we are just another animal, albeit a slightly more intelligent and civilized one.

    Well on July 7th I was actually in France, but I was glued to the news reports of course, and I definately felt despair more than anything.
    That's part of the patriotism thing, I bet you were not glued to the TV on July 5th, even though elsewhere in the world equal attroicities were taking place.
    It's all part of who we are and what we are.

    I have to say that I really don't follow football at all in any shape or form, but it's nice when Andy Murray wins for example, although I wouldn't say it makes me feel elated by any means.
    One sport works just as well as an other, I just meant the fact we feel drawn to "our" people.
    Whether we like it or not.

    Well I know I'm definately British as a sort of fact that I know, like saying that I know I have green eyes for example, I just don't sometimes feel it especially strongly, and thats nothing to do with any feelings of shame, I just don't feel it. And almost every teenager on the continent listens to English music btw! (since it is the only decent music scene)
    I don't know about that, I've been to some European clubs and they deffinately throw some of their stuff into the mix, the same on their radio shows, but you kind of make my point when you say "since it is the only decent music scene".
    That's your shared evolution talking, that's your culture talking.
    Do you think every kid in Greece, or Hungary, is saying the same thing?



    Hmm... I'm really not that patriotic.
    You just think you are not, but you cheer the "right" side, like the "right" music, etc., etc.
    How do you think it is for most people?


    Hah!

    I don't feel strange discusing it, but I know exactly where you're coming from with the whole apologetic angle. I don't feel it really applies to me, but on the whole it is without doubt a British phenomenon.
    Aye, it's a strange thing.
    But hey, the world will keep on turning.
    We are what we are, and our enviroment, and our genes, both play a part in that, two things we can't really change.
    We will continue to move forward in the way that we do, evolve in the way we evolve, and end up where ever we end up.
    (I almost sounded deep there...)
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    There is no single "British Culture", to say so would be faulty. However there is something far more powerful. It is the British Spirit. It is the sense of adventure, and looking out into the unknown, that lead Britain to forge one of the largest Empires of all time. It is our traditions, our outlook, our identity and our patriotism. It is a pride in History , but a plan for the future. From the Beatles to Handel, one can see and feel this spirit.

    To try to limit Britishness to a mere culture would be foolish. What has defined this nation has been a spirit, common to all of he peoples, and an ethos that can be felt everywhere on this Island.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Lovely stuff.

    And where you say it cannot be defined, it's worth adding that it need not be defined. The idea that if Nick Griffin cannot prove fish and chips are British has anything whatsoever to do with a British nationalism is perverse and idiotic.
    It has everything to do with it, because his definition suggested that culture comes from the "indigenous people."

    If so, then we better look back a few thousand years to see what the indigenous Britons did, before they were invaded by the Celts, Vikings, Saxons and Normans and played host to thousands of immigrants and refugees.

    Fish and chips are no more a part of British culture than chicken tikka masala; they were both introduced to this country by immigrants, and the descendents of immigrants, and have become part of its way of life. British culture is not a static thing - as I said, if it was, it would have its basis in the dark ages. That we should try to "freeze" our cultural heritage at an arbitrary point in time, and then hold that up as the be all and end all of British culture is laughable. That's the point of culture; it changes to reflect the times and the zeitgeist of those times. That means absorbing what immigrants have to offer us into a constantly evolving concept.
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    (Original post by EastMidlander)
    That's part of the patriotism thing, I bet you were not glued to the TV on July 5th, even though elsewhere in the world equal attroicities were taking place.
    It's all part of who we are and what we are.
    I can assure you that everyone I was with was glued to the news reports on that day. I would say that that would make me a Westerner more than a Brit per se. I assume you were glued to the news reports about the Madrid train bombings and 9/11? Does that make you Spanish or American?

    I don't know about that, I've been to some European clubs and they deffinately throw some of their stuff into the mix, the same on their radio shows, but you kind of make my point when you say "since it is the only decent music scene".
    That's your shared evolution talking, that's your culture talking.
    Do you think every kid in Greece, or Hungary, is saying the same thing?
    Honestly British Music is on the whole the best in europe, not because it is British but because it really is. All of my german friends say it and are into franz and the arctic monks and subways, all of the mainstream indie-rock stuff. But obviously I can't speak for the greeks or hungarians. I'm talking indie-rock stuff here as well, not the trashy stuff that gets played in clubs. And the radio stations have to play domestic stuff; it's actually the law in france that they have to play french stuff for a certain parcentage of the time that they are on the air (the actual figure eludes me for the moment).
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    (Original post by SolInvincitus)
    There is no single "British Culture", to say so would be faulty. However there is something far more powerful. It is the British Spirit. It is the sense of adventure, and looking out into the unknown, that lead Britain to forge one of the largest Empires of all time. It is our traditions, our outlook, our identity and our patriotism. It is a pride in History , but a plan for the future. From the Beatles to Handel, one can see and feel this spirit.

    To try to limit Britishness to a mere culture would be foolish. What has defined this nation has been a spirit, common to all of he peoples, and an ethos that can be felt everywhere on this Island.
    You do know that Handel is actually German right? He only became a British citizen in the 1720s I think.
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    If people do really believe that immigration is taking away "British culture", i think they are being hysterical to be honest.

    As i have said before, most of Britain is white. Plenty of people do "Britishy culturally type things"- whatever the hell that may be- and eastmidlands, guy, your description sounded like the same silly things that devout relgious people spout about God and faith etc- i don't accept that wooshy airy fairy feeling you have is more important than immigrants needing to get out of their countries, or merely wanting a better life.

    As long as you yourselves don't lose your own identity, then there is no problem. An influx of immigrants shouldn't change how you feel inside about yourself. And if it does, then that signifies a problem with your own self-esteem, more than a problem with Britain.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    If people do really believe that immigration is taking away "British culture", i think they are being hysterical to be honest.
    Perhaps you will explain why.
    *awaits another racist outburst like last time*

    As i have said before, most of Britain is white.
    You are kind of obsessed with the fact there are white people on this planet arn't you?

    Plenty of people do "Britishy culturally type things"- whatever the hell that may be
    So you don't actually know?

    and eastmidlands, guy, your description sounded like the same silly things that devout relgious people spout about God and faith etc
    Explain?
    If you can, and try not to rabbit on about white skin colour in your explanation please.


    i don't accept that wooshy airy fairy feeling you have is more important than immigrants needing to get out of their countries, or merely wanting a better life.
    We are not talking about a wooshy airy fairy feeling.
    Did you actually read the whole post?
    BTW. Most immigrants coming here do not NEED to get out of their countries, and what reason do those NEEDING to get out of their countries have for NEEDING to get out?
    Do you actually know?

    As long as you yourselves don't lose your own identity, then there is no problem. An influx of immigrants shouldn't change how you feel inside about yourself.
    Culture isn't how you feel inside yourself.
    *sigh*
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    (Original post by Johnny)
    You do know that Handel is actually German right? He only became a British citizen in the 1720s I think.
    A symbol of Britains multi-cultural history. A german born composer who wrote some of the most "British' music in history. He began the tradition of British ceremonial music. His music is played at the coronation of every British monarch since his time.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    If people do really believe that immigration is taking away "British culture", i think they are being hysterical to be honest.
    Tell that to those that have lived in Hackney for 50 years.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    i don't accept that wooshy airy fairy feeling you have is more important than immigrants needing to get out of their countries, or merely wanting a better life.
    So cultural integration and the concerns of the loal populous are never sufficient to prevent any immigration at all?

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    As long as you yourselves don't lose your own identity, then there is no problem.
    Oh really? So being surrounded by a commuity that has different values, different culture, a different language etc is no problem so long as YOU maintain your little island like identity?

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    An influx of immigrants shouldn't change how you feel inside about yourself. And if it does, then that signifies a problem with your own self-esteem, more than a problem with Britain.
    That's not realy the point. Its not about self-esteem, its about your environment.

    To contend that someone who cares about their environment has a self-esteem issue is rather odd IMO.
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    (Original post by EastMidlander)
    Perhaps you will explain why.
    *awaits another racist outburst like last time*



    You are kind of obsessed with the fact there are white people on this planet arn't you?



    So you don't actually know?



    Explain?
    If you can, and try not to rabbit on about white skin colour in your explanation please.




    We are not talking about a wooshy airy fairy feeling.
    Did you actually read the whole post?
    BTW. Most immigrants coming here do not NEED to get out of their countries, and what reason do those NEEDING to get out of their countries have for NEEDING to get out?
    Do you actually know?



    Culture isn't how you feel inside yourself.
    *sigh*
    Hmm, how do i respond to your post? Let me just go and ask my white mother.:rolleyes: I always find it amusing to be called racist, as i'm a mixed race boy, who in fact was brought up by my white mother, who has had far more influence over my life than anyooine else. And i only have 1 black friend because there weren't really any other black people at my school. Stop resorting to accusing people of racism, particularly when that is precisel what you moan at black people for doing, no doubt.

    No. Culture isn't. But that wooshy airy fairy feeling you feel is inside isnt it? You feel British, don't you/ Why? Because you look around and see Big Ben? Wehn looking at a PGTips box? Or because you just feel it? Now tel me, how do immigrants have such power that they can stop you feeling British? If they do that, then i say again, that is not their fault, but your own.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Tell that to those that have lived in Hackney for 50 years.



    So cultural integration and the concerns of the loal populous are never sufficient to prevent any immigration at all?



    Oh really? So being surrounded by a commuity that has different values, different culture, a different language etc is no problem so long as YOU maintain your little island like identity?



    That's not realy the point. Its not about self-esteem, its about your environment.

    To contend that someone who cares about their environment has a self-esteem issue is rather odd IMO.
    Yes, thinking that someone who cares about their environment has a self-esteem issue is odd, i agree.
    But that ain't me, stop asserting rubbish! The self-esteem issues come from people who beleieve that they'll lose their feeling of being British if they are surrounded by non-British people. That is a severe lack of self-knowing in my opinion, and noone can help that person but a psychologist.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Hmm, how do i respond to your post? Let me just go and ask my white mother.:rolleyes:
    You are obsessed with this whole race thing, arn't you?
    Is there something you want to get off your chest?

    I always find it amusing to be called racist, as i'm a mixed race boy, who in fact was brought up by my white mother, who has had far more influence over my life than anyooine else.
    And that answer probably tells us it all.
    So it's a childhood hang up is it?
    BTW. It's perfectly possible to be a mixed race child brought up by a white mother, and still to be racist.
    (try a dictionary)

    And i only have 1 black friend because there weren't really any other black people at my school.
    "I'm not racist I have a black friend".
    Who are you trying to justify this too?

    Stop resorting to accusing people of racism, particularly when that is precisel what you moan at black people for doing, no doubt.
    I am not resorting to anything.
    I am calling it as I see it.
    You have an obsession with the white race that permeates through almost every post I've seen you make.
    As long as you behave in such a manner I'll call it as such.
    The colour of your mother, or your best friend is irrelevent.

    No. Culture isn't. But that wooshy airy fairy feeling you feel is inside isnt it? You feel British, don't you/ Why? Because you look around and see Big Ben? Wehn looking at a PGTips box? Or because you just feel it? Now tel me, how do immigrants have such power that they can stop you feeling British? If they do that, then i say again, that is not their fault, but your own.
    Read my previous answers.
    I've dealt with this point already.
    Thanks for wasting my time.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    The self-esteem issues come from people who beleieve that they'll lose their feeling of being British if they are surrounded by non-British people. That is a severe lack of self-knowing in my opinion, and noone can help that person but a psychologist.
    Sorry - but that's trash. The point isn’t that they feel less British - the point is that their ENVIRONMENT and everyone around them is less British. Its about feeling alienated and losing your sense of belonging - not that you suddenly feel like a guy from Taiwan.
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    What is British culture anyway?

    Is it pubs, chippys, a nice cup of tea and football? Becuase I don't see how immigration will change any of that.

    Or is British Culture the feeling of being surrounded by white people?

    To be honest curry houses, chinese take-aways and corner shops run by ethnic minorities are about as big a part of British culture as any of those things.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    What is British culture anyway?
    British culture is whatever the culture of Britian is at this point in time.

    (Original post by Laika)
    Or is British Culture the feeling of being surrounded by white people?
    Unfortunately for your views no. Polish immigrants could just as easily alter it as people from say, Jamaica.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    British culture is whatever the culture of Britian is at this point in time.
    If British culture is relative to it's current time period then surely there can be no fixed qualities attributed to it, and it must be constantly evolving as time goes on. Thus, it would be impossible to 'destroy' culture it would merely change.
 
 
 
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