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what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university watch

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    (Original post by Atomik)
    Organised oppression against black people no longer happens. Is there still a need for UNCF? No.

    Such groups should be designed to help POOR people, not people of a certain ethnicity.

    Yes, it would be a good thing. However, blacks are NOT banned from universities in America! Maybe they once were, but these problems have been resolved, meaning there is no need for groups such as the UNCF!
    I agree to an extent, but America is also competing against the cultural pressures on black youths, so the issue is not as clear cut as race alone, race is just so much more complicated in America.

    It's not necassarily an example of double standards anyway. The same is true of Britain as has been highlighted. I believe if you're a Welsh student studying in England you are entitled to extra grants (or you were last year before topup fees).
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Cambridge University Black Society. It's so all-encompassing it's essentially a non-white society!
    Funny... I was so surprised I had to check this one but couldn't find it on their website??

    http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/

    Must be some sort of top secret underground organisation! :p:
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Yes, and that is the base principle, which i have already agreed with. But it isnt racist, when you look at societal reasoning for why such decisons are taken. There is no ill thought towards white people, who are already catered for well enough by a range of other scholarships, and of whom most don't scholarships anyway, since a high proportion already go to university. Dictioary definitions without any insight into the hows and whys won't get you many marks in an exam, will it?
    You believe that there are reasons which justify a society discriminating in favour of Blacks. Could you tell me what they are?
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    (Original post by poltroon)
    You believe that there are reasons which justify a society discriminating in favour of Blacks. Could you tell me what they are?
    When an entire society has discriminated against blacks for a long period of time and they are downtrodden into a poor social position, a certain reverse discrimination is needed to redress the balance and give them the opportunity that those at the top of the social scale receive, otherwise the discrimination will always be in place. Once equality of opportunity is established, all discrimination becomes unnecessary.
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    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    Hmmm so what would you say about the Gym Gym (Welsh society) at my university? Seeing that it's something like 98% white in Wales you could count this as a 'white society'
    Seeing that its a WELSH society and not a white one then no you couldnt. There are black welshman.

    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    As regards having a 'white society' in a place where whites are the minority (like Trinidad).. I think it would be fine to have one,
    Perhaps you do. People would call it racist I assure you.

    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    if others were welcome to join,but tell me, what exactly would be white trinidadian culture (not counting whatever we've adopted from the States and other foreign countries)? If you could define that for me I would be well surprised. :rolleyes:
    Of course much of the culture has been adopted from elsewhere, such as TV etc etc. However that is the same with cmuch of black west indian culture. That is not to say that there are not distinct elements that have evolved over time.

    Still thats to miss the point entirely. It wasnt saying a white society for white WEST INDIAN culture - but ALL white culture.
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    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    It's such a shame Lawz that you make our country sound like a place where you have to run and hide if you're white when that's clearly not the case. I have white friends who don't nearly seem to have the same idea of the place as you do.. perhaps you get what you're looking for. If you think that people are out to get you just because you're different from the majority then eventually you'll find what you're so set on proving.
    I said NO SUCH THING. Thank you so much for putting words in my mouth, overblowing my contention, and posting a post of mine that is entirely irrelevant to your point.

    Seriously, Congratulations.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    When an entire society has discriminated against blacks for a long period of time and they are downtrodden into a poor social position, a certain reverse discrimination is needed to redress the balance and give them the opportunity that those at the top of the social scale receive, otherwise the discrimination will always be in place. Once equality of opportunity is established, all discrimination becomes unnecessary.
    Welllll said! ^
    It's impossible nowadays to completely separate issues of race and social exclusion/poverty... they are not mutually exclusive and to carry on an argument as if they were is just being in glorious denial of the truth.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Lawz, come on, just accept the difference between the race situation in America and Britain. The origins of Howard University was to give oppurtunities to black people in educatio who were discrimintaed against in normal universities. You agree with this, but we'retalking about the present day.
    PRECISELY. Present day. These thigns may have had a role to play back then - but in PRESENT day - they are discriminatory.

    (Original post by Laika)
    1. Blacks are still disadvantaged when it comes to education and socio-economic status in America.
    Mainly because they are poor. As said, blacks and whites from the lowest socio-economic group have similar rates of tertiary education. It is NOT because they are black. IN fact - being an URM in the US makes it EASIER to get into university. Another example of discrimination.

    (Original post by Laika)
    2. The University is open to all races - here your argument falls apart. It's just totally illogical to dispute this point. Of COURSE a historically black University, whose alumni is largely black and whose roots are in the civil rights movement are going to be proud of this. The fact is - whites can go too. Theres absolutely no discrimination involved. The political situation around race is totally different in America to Britain. It's too totally different standards. So EVEN IF you were right on this point, it WOULD NOT be an example of double standards compared to an Afro-Caribbean society at University.
    Look I have addressed this, while you seem to be ignoring the other two examples I have given which ARE only for blacks. Why is this?

    The university may TECHNICALLY be open to whites, but as said - if there was any university that did the same thing - ie be ALL White, while paying lip service to any racial diversity - it would be attacked by the US public.
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    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    Welllll said! ^
    It's impossible nowadays to completely separate issues of race and social exclusion/poverty... they are not mutually exclusive and to carry on an argument as if they were is just being in glorious denial of the truth.
    Of course you can separate them.

    You look at wealth or you look at race. you dont need to look at both.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    When an entire society has discriminated against blacks for a long period of time and they are downtrodden into a poor social position, a certain reverse discrimination is needed to redress the balance and give them the opportunity that those at the top of the social scale receive, otherwise the discrimination will always be in place. Once equality of opportunity is established, all discrimination becomes unnecessary.
    SOCIAL scale... social.

    Reverse discrimination is about reversing centuries of economic depravity. I tmakes no sense to favour a rich black child who went to private school over a poor white one who stuck it out in an inner-city one.

    Or you think it does?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    There are black welshman.
    Plenty in Cardiff...
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Seeing that its a WELSH society and not a white one then no you couldnt. There are black welshman.



    Perhaps you do. People would call it racist I assure you.



    Of course much of the culture has been adopted from elsewhere, such as TV etc etc. However that is the same with cmuch of black west indian culture. That is not to say that there are not distinct elements that have evolved over time.

    Still thats to miss the point entirely. It wasnt saying a white society for white WEST INDIAN culture - but ALL white culture.
    EXACTLY.. 'Welsh' not 'white' because we all know that's just bloody ridiculous don't we.. as i've already said, it's about culture and white, as far as i know, is not a culture.

    If you created a 'White Society' in Trinidad or anywhere else, I'm sure people would call it racist as calling it this seems to put the emphasis on skin colour. On the other hand, a society based on culture is fine.

    BUT... You still have managed to eloquently avoid SPECIFICALLY DEFINING WHTE CULTURE. If you could post one simple reply giving me an explicit definition of white culture I would be much obliged.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    ,
    I don't know why you insist on taking my quotes out of context. I said we agree that it would be unfair to discriminate on the grounds of race. Howard does not do this, yet time and time again you bring it up as an example. It is open to all races, yet you continue to re-iterate that if the opposite scenario was true, it would be attacked. Yes it would, and THE OPPOSITE WAS TRUE when Howard was established. There is noting discriminatory about Howard. Nothing. It cannot help its history in that it was opened when blacks had no access to education. American race history, the civil rights movement? A history you fail to consider (or address my posts on) time and time again, which conveniantly makes your argument look a lot stronger than it is.

    I have already addressed the UNCF countless times there's no point nit-picking over it even further.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    When an entire society has discriminated against blacks for a long period of time and they are downtrodden into a poor social position, a certain reverse discrimination is needed to redress the balance and give them the opportunity that those at the top of the social scale receive, otherwise the discrimination will always be in place. Once equality of opportunity is established, all discrimination becomes unnecessary.
    I disagree. In my view no 'reverse discrimination' is necessary in order to allow a group, which was once downtrodden, to flourish. It is only necessary to ensure equal opportunity, for then, as you say, it becomes unnecessary to use discrimination as a tool to redress imbalance.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    SOCIAL scale... social.

    Reverse discrimination is about reversing centuries of economic depravity. I tmakes no sense to favour a rich black child who went to private school over a poor white one who stuck it out in an inner-city one.

    Or you think it does?
    No you are right, that post was not part of my main argument I was just responding to that one off post. However on a side note if you actually look into the UNCF you will see that the vast majority of its students are from poor backgrounds, thus further emphasising the real reason it was set up.
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    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    EXACTLY.. 'Welsh' not 'white' because we all know that's just bloody ridiculous don't we.. as i've already said, it's about culture and white, as far as i know, is not a culture.
    You clearly havent read this thread properly.

    BLACK isnt a culture either.

    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    If you created a 'White Society' in Trinidad or anywhere else, I'm sure people would call it racist as calling it this seems to put the emphasis on skin colour. On the other hand, a society based on culture is fine.
    Again. Read the thread.

    (Original post by Phoenix_down)
    BUT... You still have managed to eloquently avoid SPECIFICALLY DEFINING WHTE CULTURE. If you could post one simple reply giving me an explicit definition of white culture I would be much obliged.
    The cultures of white people.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    I said NO SUCH THING. Thank you so much for putting words in my mouth, overblowing my contention, and posting a post of mine that is entirely irrelevant to your point.

    Seriously, Congratulations.
    I never specifically quoted you as saying ANYTHING.. just giving a completely inaccurate impression of our country as a place where people are generally hostile to whites. Gross misrepresentation indeed. Read my post again. I never put any words in your mouth mate. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Laika)
    When an entire society has discriminated against blacks for a long period of time and they are downtrodden into a poor social position, a certain reverse discrimination is needed to redress the balance and give them the opportunity that those at the top of the social scale receive, otherwise the discrimination will always be in place. Once equality of opportunity is established, all discrimination becomes unnecessary.
    I will admit that past oppression has acted as a precursor to the poverty many black people are living in today. However, as has been said, many whites in America are poor too. Organised oppression against people of African origin has been abolished. They've had years to 'better themselves'. Therefore, there is no need for race-specific funding.

    As I previously asked, should upper-middle class blacks be helped, too, just because of their race?
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    (Original post by Laika)
    No you are right, that post was not part of my main argument I was just responding to that one off post. However on a side note if you actually look into the UNCF you will see that the vast majority of its students are from poor backgrounds, thus further emphasising the real reason it was set up.
    Absolutely. But the fact remains that it favours poor blacks when there may poorer whites in need. As such it obviously doesnt use economic depravity as the be all and end all.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Of course you can separate them.

    You look at wealth or you look at race. you dont need to look at both.
    If you ever intended to do any sort of indepth analysis of either topic, one is sure to come up in analysing the other. Don't try to deny that there is a link between the two.
 
 
 
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