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    Well My mum got an MSC in engineering in Israel before comeing to England, her levle of education cants be so poor if she has taught at Reading and Southampton University and done a PHD in simulation modelling, at Reading university, which happens ot be one of the best universitys in the world in that feild.

    Incase you dont know what it is i found a definition online

    Simulation Modeling: a simulation model is a computer program that replicates the operations of a business process and estimates rates at which outputs are produced and resources are consumed. Models test the consistency of the facts, logic, and assumptions used by planners to design a proposed business process, to compare alternative business processes, or to test the sensitivity of a process to changes in selected assumptions. Models help decision makers to assess the potential benefits, costs, and risks of alternative processes and strategies.


    Try telling my mum that the education system in Israel is no good.

    As far as NATO goes, it has nothing to do with Europe, it is the North Atlantic treaty organisation, many of its memebers are not situated in the North atalantic and to say that you must be in order to join is like saying only Japan can sign up to the Kyoto Protocol
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    (Original post by Bismarck)



    Yes, the Jews are evil. We already know that. Please move on now. :rolleyes:
    Oh how i chuckle - thanks for the neg rep...i see youre patrolling again.

    Also, dont be so obtuse, no one said jews are evil, that would be a stupid assertion to make, given that im part jewish.

    I said Israel DOES NOT share the same values as Westerners, end of - dont start putting words into peoples mouths.

    and to Hawkins, well Britain isnt bombing people having picnics, and theyre not turfing people out of their homes, and theyre not sending their soldiers to shoot film directors and peace activists - nuff said.
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    and titanium, you stole my birthday:p:
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    and to Hawkins, well Britain isnt bombing people having picnics, and theyre not turfing people out of their homes, and theyre not sending their soldiers to shoot film directors and peace activists - nuff said.
    I didn't claim that Britain was bombing people having picnics (though if you look into Irish history the British soldiers are hardly angels).

    YOU made the claim that Britian hasn't oppressed minority groups - a claim, which as I showed, is demonstratively false. Unless that is, the demonisation of Irish catholics and the presumption of guilt inherent in internment doesn't count as oppression.

    So your claim was quite mistaken.
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    (Original post by phawkins1988)
    I didn't claim that Britain was bombing people having picnics (though if you look into Irish history the British soldiers are hardly angels).

    YOU made the claim that Britian hasn't oppressed minority groups - a claim, which as I showed, is demonstratively false. Unless that is, the demonisation of Irish catholics and the presumption of guilt inherent in internment doesn't count as oppression.

    So your claim was quite mistaken.
    There's also the minor imperialism thing and the wiping out of natives in Australia and New Zealand...
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    and to Hawkins, well Britain isnt bombing people having picnics
    Have you not actually read or seen ANY news since you had it drilled in to your head that Israel is always responsible for everything? There is much debate over who is responsible including huge amounts of evidence that Israel was NOT responsible for what happened on the Gaza beach. That includes the fragments removed from victims not being from Israeli ordnance, victims arriving in Israeli hospitals from palestinian ones COVERED in cuts where doctors - going against all medical practice - apparently tried to remove every single piece of shrapnel, further injuring the victim. Then there is the fact that the Israelis can account for all the ordnance fired and ceased firing too early to have cause the blast. Then there is the fact that Hamas and others aggressively prevented evidence being collected and refused to co-operate with inquiries. Then there's the photography from the scene which shows numerous odd things such as injured people who don't actually seem to have injuries, children fully clothed and dry who were apparently swimming at the time, etc. etc. All in all, it's increasingly clear this is another Al-dura, another Jenin, another palestinian propagandist lie. But morons like you will just repeat it every time.

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    and theyre not sending their soldiers to shoot film directors and peace activists - nuff said.
    More idiotic nonsense. Israel has never sent its soldiers out to shoot those people, it's against the codes of practice and rules of engagement to shoot people of that nature, so at the very least to say that 'Israel' is behind the shootings, rather than individual soldiers is a lie. Secondly, 'peace activist' is a completely misleading way to label a hideous terrorist-supporter who deliberately obstructs military operations and is part of an organisation which has previously been found to have been sheltering wanted terrorists and storing arms. Then again, palestinians and their supporters are pathological liars, so it's expected.
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    Joining to the NATO isn't really relevant to Israel's security in my opinion, for one thing its military strength is strong enough to defend itself against any middle-eastern country or countries (it proved through history), and now the United States has military deployments Iraq, creating a buffer state between Israel and Iran.

    Furthermore, traditionally US has always played a significant role helping Israel defending itself, and it would not sit still if Israel is under any serious threat, considering now that US troops all over Middle East and has a budget of about 504 billion dollars in defense in Fiscal Year of 2005.

    As for Iran nuclear threat, whether Israel is a member of NATO or not, if Iran ever shoots a nuclear warhead toward Israel, it'd face massive retaliation from the United States and Europe wouldn't stand still, given if Iran was able to mount a nuclear warhead on the missle before the US develop the Missle Defense System or NATO launch a military offense (very unlikely these events would happen).

    Last but not least, NATO also has, according to what the US ambassador to NATO (on a C-SPAN interview) said, strong partnership with countries like Japan, Australia and New Zealand, which is an alliance treaty, meaning NATO would help these countries if they were to be attacked. And I bet Israel is among those partneship countries.

    Therefore, Israel has already enjoyed as much security benefits as any of the NATO member, maybe even more, making the notion of joining NATO just some political and symbolic move.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    All in all, it's increasingly clear this is another Al-dura, another Jenin, another palestinian propagandist lie. But morons like you will just repeat it every time.
    Hmm... can i say they sound a bit like stories of the Holocaust?
    And interpret that the way you like!

    (Original post by JonathanH)
    More idiotic nonsense. Israel has never sent its soldiers out to shoot those people, it's against the codes of practice and rules of engagement to shoot people of that nature, so at the very least to say that 'Israel' is behind the shootings, rather than individual soldiers is a lie. Secondly, 'peace activist' is a completely misleading way to label a hideous terrorist-supporter who deliberately obstructs military operations and is part of an organisation which has previously been found to have been sheltering wanted terrorists and storing arms. Then again, palestinians and their supporters are pathological liars, so it's expected.

    Right, so Tom Hurndal was obstructing a military operation - by protecting children? Proves the point doesnt it?
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    So is it your contention that any country whose soldiers kill civilians is automatically not Western?
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Hmm... can i say they sound a bit like stories of the Holocaust?
    And interpret that the way you like!
    MNGGGHH!!!!

    Jesus wept.
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    (Original post by phawkins1988)
    MNGGGHH!!!!

    Jesus wept.
    You mean the accidental killing of 10 people by their own people is not the same as the murder of 6 million people by someone else? :confused:
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    So is it your contention that any country whose soldiers kill civilians is automatically not Western?
    No, quite simply any country that does not respect, uphold or revere Western values cannot be Western, whether or not they have killed civilians.

    And its good to know that youre acknowledging the fact that the Israeli army kill civilians.
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    I don't think Israel needs to join NATO for its security, or for the protection of its existence. Any country which attacks Israel will be reduced to ashes by Turkey and the United States.

    Plus, Israel is strong in its own right.
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    (Original post by 19841984)
    I don't think Israel needs to join NATO for its security, or for the protection of its existence. Any country which attacks Israel will be reduced to ashes by Turkey and the United States.

    Plus, Israel is strong in its own right.
    Yup. Ironically the only country in the region with WMDs, and the only country in the world that has them and denys having them (oh i think ive spouted out another palestinian propoganda lie):rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    No, quite simply any country that does not respect, uphold or revere Western values cannot be Western, whether or not they have killed civilians.

    And its good to know that youre acknowledging the fact that the Israeli army kill civilians.
    Every country that participated in the bombing of Serbia, Afghanistan, and Iraq has killed civilians. I guess the Palestinians are the only Westerners left in the world. :rolleyes: Please stop spewing your ignorance and look up what being Western actually means.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Yup. Ironically the only country in the region with WMDs, and the only country in the world that has them and denys having them (oh i think ive spouted out another palestinian propoganda lie):rolleyes:
    The have had buclear weapons for 30 years, countries such as USA where always aware of this, of course Israel is going to dennie it to the media because look what the media do to them.

    Israel are political allies with the USA and other western countries and are seen as far from even a potential threat for this reason so there has not been many problems with Israel aquiring this technology.

    As for not joining NATO because Israel are strong well yes thats true, their army is rated 4th in the world in terms of stregnth, USA, china and India comeing ahead and Russia comeing behind, not bad for a country which has 4% of the population of the USA. But fact is USA are part of Nato, Britian has also got one of the strongest military forces in the world, it is 8th strongest, which is the strongest in Europe, so it does not actualy need the portection of NATO.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Every country that participated in the bombing of Serbia, Afghanistan, and Iraq has killed civilians. I guess the Palestinians are the only Westerners left in the world. :rolleyes: Please stop spewing your ignorance and look up what being Western actually means.
    Ignorance? Who said Palestinians were Westerners? You.

    I dont care about the countrys that bombed civillians in those countries. They were western before they did the bombing and after - whats your point?
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    (Original post by *titanium*)
    The have had buclear weapons for 30 years, countries such as USA where always aware of this, of course Israel is going to dennie it to the media because look what the media do to them.

    Israel are political allies with the USA and other western countries and are seen as far from even a potential threat for this reason so there has not been many problems with Israel aquiring this technology.

    As for not joining NATO because Israel are strong well yes thats true, their army is rated 4th in the world in terms of stregnth, USA, china and India comeing ahead and Russia comeing behind, not bad for a country which has 4% of the population of the USA. But fact is USA are part of Nato, Britian has also got one of the strongest military forces in the world, it is 8th strongest, which is the strongest in Europe, so it does not actualy need the portection of NATO.

    Sorry, you stand corrected. Israel is a stratgeic, not a political ally of the US - also, i genuinly dont think Americans want Israel to be its ally, because lets face it, it drains it financially and in every other way - and has done for the last however many years. Israel is a burden fullstop. I would not call it a political ally of any other Western country - the West has had enough of being duped.

    Also, as for it being the 4th strongest army - well its been in combat since its conception - what do you expect?
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Ignorance? Who said Palestinians were Westerners? You.

    I dont care about the countrys that bombed civillians in those countries. They were western before they did the bombing and after - whats your point?
    And I guess people like Herzl, who came up with the concept of Zionism, were not Western before the creation of Israel. :rolleyes: Do I really have to remind you of all the wars the Europeans fought in since the dawn of civilization?
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    And I guess people like Herzl, who came up with the concept of Zionism, were not Western before the creation of Israel. :rolleyes: Do I really have to remind you of all the wars the Europeans fought in since the dawn of civilization?
    No actually i dont think Herzel was Western, otherwise he wouldve adhered to Western values/philosophy and wouldnt have needed the urge to call for an independent Jewish state.

    AND WHAT HAVE WARS GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! The point is Europeans are not turfing people out of their homes, and mass mudering people RIGHT NOW and then getting idiots to condone and excuse it.
 
 
 
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