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    (Original post by Oschene23)
    Okay, I agree with you, you get more right-wing than left-wing trolls as it is TSR. Yet, I don't think we should even entertain these trolls because it shifts away from the valid arguments people should be having on important issues. I think what this thread has suggested is that everyone is in the same boat yet only a handful of people start these threads and no intelligent person takes them seriously.

    More worrying in the thread starter's post was the idea of some kind of 'bourgeoise hegemony' idea stated whereby somehow everyone was being overcome by right-wing ideology. That is simply not the case, I value my freedom of speech and no-one is going to tell me what I can and can't say. I consider threads like this trolling as it is simply void of logic to complain about people expressing opinions that alter from your own, can't we discuss real problems.
    I was raising it mainly because I am curious/concerned that political factions are seeking to control this site. One classic way to do that is to 'snowjob' the site, blitzing it with basically the same thread multiple times a day, to bore everyone rigid and shut down discussion. As that is what appears to be happening, it's not unreasonable or a troll to seek to raise and discuss it.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Can you name any of these so called 'shills' with whom you largely agree with then, for the sake of clarity.
    No. Neither can I name any I don't agree with, how would I know?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I was raising it mainly because I am curious/concerned that political factions are seeking to control this site. One classic way to do that is to 'snowjob' the site, blitzing it with basically the same thread multiple times a day, to bore everyone rigid and shut down discussion. As that is what appears to be happening, it's not unreasonable or a troll to seek to raise and discuss it.
    Yes, but you wern't here complaining about the same thing when these forums seemed like they were run by The Socialist Workers Party. You are simply uncomfortable I presume with the growing unpopularity of your opinions as it appears to threaten left-wing ideas.
    There is no conspiracy theory at play here, and trolling a student forum does not gain you appreciation or popularity, it just annoys everyone and would never be used by a group of people as propaganda.

    The left v right argument will never cease, and you better start getting used to that.

    + you are the worst offender for partisan posting on TSR. You tried to claim that Osbourne got parked in a disabled parking bay so as he could just put two fingers up to disabled people who he obviously venemously detests, whilst it was okay for Balls to endanger lives by chatting away on the phone while driving.
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    I have a serious problem with people studying Politics.

    In the past, people would move into Government after amassing a wealth of work and life experience. Nowadays it seems anyone can study Politics at university and is deemed capable of working in Government.

    It's absurd.

    I was speaking to a final year Politics student about the SNP and Scottish independence, and his opinion was that, "it can't get any worse, so let's give it (independence) a try".

    That's genuinely scary. What, if anything, has he been taught?
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    (Original post by a729)
    Lol have you seen the definition of TSR on urban dictionary! ?
    No I haven't I will have a look.

    EDIT: Just read it; brilliant!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Their also needs to be concerted international action to close down the tax havens.
    There. FYP.

    I would argue that someone who has failed to grasp basic spelling and grammar may also struggle to grasp more complicated political issues.
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    (Original post by Oschene23)
    trolling a student forum does not gain you appreciation or popularity,
    No, but it can help frame or stifle a debate favorably.

    (Original post by Oschene23)
    it just annoys everyone and would never be used by a group of people as propaganda.
    Why not?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    The UK is one of the main opponents (almost the only remaining opponent amongst the really big economies) of progress on international tax haven legislation, so it's hardly a question of having to wait for other people.
    Any credible source for this?
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    (Original post by pane123)
    There. FYP.

    I would argue that someone who has failed to grasp basic spelling and grammar may also struggle to grasp more complicated political issues.
    Oh Lord, yes, I stand corrrrected! Sometimes I even tipe to kwickly for my owne goode. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Did you write one of them? Some of it sounds like your writing style.
    No I didn't write it, but some of the stereotypical overreactions to centre-right thought mimick your own views superbly.

    Tbh though your defensiveness is understandable. The British left are so confused and disorganised that their main vehicle for promoting a left-wing vision of society -New Labour- cannot even bring itself to support either socialism or modern, trendy, liberal ideals like mass immigration and multiculturalism, leading some to question what the Labour party is for altogther. Given these rather fundamental problems I suppose lashing out at someone else is the only weapon left in your arsenal, hence threads like this.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Tbh though your defensiveness is understandable. The British left are so confused and disorganised that their main vehicle for promoting a left-wing vision of society -New Labour- cannot even bring itself to support either socialism or modern, trendy, liberal ideals like mass immigration and multiculturalism, leading some to question what the Labour party is for altogther. Given these rather fundamental problems I suppose lashing out at someone else is the only weapon left in your arsenal, hence threads like this.
    If we put aside speculation over Fullofsurprises motives for a second, do you not think it possible or even likely that there are shills operating on TSR?
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    (Original post by n00)
    If we put aside speculation over Fullofsurprises motives for a second, do you not think it possible or even likely that there are shills operating on TSR?
    It depends what you mean by the term shill. If you're suggesting that some posters are professionals who are paid to spread lies and misinformation on sites like TSR then no. If you mean contrarians who are looking to challenge orthodox student left-wing dogma then yes, but I wouldn't consider that to be foul play.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    It depends what you mean by the term shill. If you're suggesting that some posters are professionals who are paid to spread lies and misinformation on sites like TSR then no. If you mean contrarians who are looking to challenge orthodox student left-wing dogma then yes, but I wouldn't consider that to be foul play.
    Well, isn't that exactly what a paid shill would say?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    If you're suggesting that some posters are professionals who are paid to spread lies and misinformation on sites like TSR then no.
    You don't even think that its possible? Why not?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Well, isn't that exactly what a paid shill would say?
    I wouldn't know. Going by your logic then everyone is a potential shill because it's virtually impossible for them to prove otherwise. What a wonderfully paranoid world you live in!
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Why should the left be taken seriously and indeed censor the opposition when their track record is littered with disaster? From everything to the welfare state (which is way out of control), to immigration (which even New Labour now admit was a mistake) to free speech (i.e illiberal Twitter and Facebook 'crimes') the left have consistently got it hopelessly wrong, despite being on the side of 'humanity'.

    When I come across moany left-wing threads like this it makes me think it's purely a case of sour grapes. Perhaps we're seeing more right-wing threads in the politics section because the population in general realise that we need a right-wing solution to help clear up Labour's mess? UKIP's recent electoral success is a reflection of this, and their meteroic rise is bound to have an impact on political discourse in general.

    I honestly don't know what the left have to offer other than more of the same: more taxes, more welfare, more state intervention, more of the EU and more immigration, if this is the case you cannot blame people for seeking ideological alternatives. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
    Firstly no part of leftism entails opposition to free speech or support for censorship, hence your points there address specific factions and are irrelevant to the wider debate. Secondly a lot of what you have written is just wilful ignorance.

    Western civilisation as a whole has been drifting to a more conventionally left-wing position for decades if not centuries. It has reached the point now where being socially right-wing, especially in the extreme way that the Victorians were, has become such a toxic idea to the majority of people that left-wing and right-wing have had to be pretty much redefined in a context that refers purely to "economic liberalism". It was the conservatives of the right who continually fought to preserve archaic and arbitrary social hierarchies (such as black slavery in America) on the grounds that it was "natural", even the classical liberals so many right-wingers seem have suddenly found a liking for identified themselves as left-wing. It was also the left who helped sort out the dreadful situation for the workers in coal mines and so on, who were dying on an awful scale due to cost-cutting on safety in the name of efficiency. And it's thanks to broadly left-wing political philosophy that situations like the one I was reading about yesterday (where a highly respected American musician died in huge debt because he could not fund treatment of his rare medical condition) are avoided here, because there is enough solidarity left in society that the majority of people are happy to pay to protect each other from nasty unforeseen circumstances like that. All of this without mentioning that higher degrees of economic equality in a country are correlated with just about every positive measure of societal success there is. To say the left have a bad track record as if that is somehow objectively verifiable is just ridiculous, and clearly you don't want to look beyond the last few years of New Labour (who weren't that left-wing) for that claim.

    I say all this as someone who identifies as centre-left at most.
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    (Original post by n00)
    You don't even think that its possible? Why not?
    It's possible I suppose, but unlikely. Why would a legitimate political party like UKIP for example (an organisation the OP seems to detest) pay someone to spread right-wing views when the Model House of Commons contains a replica UKIP party anyway? It doesn't make any sense.

    I think the OP is just trying to attach horrid labels to certain posters in a crass attempt to undermine them, it's a below-the-belt tactic the left often adopt because their arguments aren't very good.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    I wouldn't know. Going by your logic then everyone is a potential shill because it's virtually impossible for them to prove otherwise. What a wonderfully paranoid world you live in!
    So whats your logic? Is it that no one is a potential shill because it's virtually impossible for anyone to prove otherwise. What a wonderfully naive world you live in!
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    It's possible I suppose, but unlikely. Why would a legitimate political party like UKIP for example (an organisation the OP seems to detest) pay someone to spread right-wing views when the Model House of Commons contains a replica UKIP party anyway? It doesn't make any sense.

    I think the OP is just trying to attach horrid labels to certain posters in a crass attempt to undermine them, it's a below-the-belt tactic the left often adopt because their arguments aren't very good.
    With today's news that the EDL are telling people to vote Ukip, it's hardly just some wild label I'm attaching to your beloved party out of thin air.
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    (Original post by Redolent)

    Western civilisation as a whole has been drifting to a more conventionally left-wing position for decades if not centuries.
    Sadly, despite the truth of much of your posting, the world has entered a phase since the 80s where right wing libertarianism and related economic theory has been much on the ascendant, to the point where it succeeded in taking over the established parties of the working classes like the Democrats in the US and Labour here. Most of the leaders from those parties over the last years have been neoliberals, not least people like Ed Balls, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Bill Clinton, etc. So in fact, despite the apparent 'victory' of leftish parties at many points, the reality of their policies has been anything but.
 
 
 
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