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    to be honest, I don't think a war between those two will ever happen, the closest to it will be USA and Russia supporting different side in a civil war in the middle east for example.

    The cold war has already shown us this, the deterrent effect of nuclear warheads is too great for any pre-emptive strike to start a war.

    However I believe if there was to be conflict it will come from the emergence of china as the new super power, followed by india, brazil and Russia on both economic, political and military aspects. China is untested and growing really rapidly, it also playing its cards close to its self, much of its motives are still unknown.

    If you are expecting a war then keep your eyes on china! and forget the old USA vs Russia rhetoric!
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    (Original post by Dr00n)
    I hope you mean together, because separated you can't actually believe we'd win.
    Yes together, collectively we could win. Especially when our armed forces are updated with the new aircraft carriers and ships.
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    (Original post by Dr00n)
    Ha, just do a bit of research and you'll see that Pakistan don't even compete with any top 10 military superpowers, whereas statistically India would be around 5th, arguably 4th
    I have and speaking in the context of equipment, India is absolutely no where near top 10. Numbers only go so far in this era of warfare.
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    Fuc k the U.S.A!!!
    If Britain really has a serious threat, and the US military defend it would you be saying that?
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I have and speaking in the context of equipment, India is absolutely no where near top 10. Numbers only go so far in this era of warfare.
    literally Google 'the 10 military powers' and every single one of them I guarantee will feature India in the top 10 and most probably the top 5, and Pakistan nowhere to be seen
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Yes they do have enough troops, ships, tanks etc. Do you have any idea of the size? Collectively, France and Britain can out gun, out maneuver, and out produce Russia with far superior weapons and technology. You also need to remember that although Russia has more tanks than Britain and France, many of them are not maintained to a good standard, and are relics of the Cold War.
    Russia

    Armed forces personnel 1,520,000, 21,000 tanks

    France

    Armed forces personnel 294,000,

    Britain

    Armed forces personnel 212,000

    Couldn't find the exact amount of tanks that Britain and France owe, but i doubt its more than 20,000 per each country.

    Source: nationmaster.com
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    (Original post by ChelseaFCCC)
    Russia

    Armed forces personnel 1,520,000, 21,000 tanks

    France

    Armed forces personnel 294,000,

    Britain

    Armed forces personnel 212,000

    Couldn't find the exact amount of tanks that Britain and France owe, but i doubt its more than 20,000 per each country.

    Source: nationmaster.com
    You didn't read a word I said did you?

    May I also remind you that modern conventional warfare does not rely on manpower alone, it also requires technology, training and reliable equipment, which western countries are far superior. For example, ships today a merely targets for anti ship missiles, such as the excocet misssile, rather than a real reflection of military power.
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    (Original post by Dr00n)
    literally Google 'the 10 military powers' and every single one of them I guarantee will feature India in the top 10 and most probably the top 5, and Pakistan nowhere to be seen

    Pakistan usually comes just outside if not in the top 10 - 11, 12, 13 (with the likes of Brazil, Turkey, Israel, Italy, Iran).

    I don't know the relevance of this to the debate - but if you guys are comparing Pakistan/India, Inzamam99 is right in that numbers only take you so far.

    Oh and if you look at it on a per capita basis, Pakistan has a stronger military in numbers. So it has more equipment per 1000 people than India from what I remember. You also have to remember Pakistan is a lot smaller in size and has been at almost constant war since 2001, more so post-2003, whilst India's economy has been growing. This has allowed India to spent a lot more on its military in recent years - so it has climbed up the rankings a lot recently.

    Any war between the two will never be conventional. Pakistan is more battle hardened, but India has better technology. It would be a close call. To suggest one would have an easy win over the other is plain wrong.

    As for India troubling Russia - I don't see it happening (obviously), nor do I think it really has the capability to cause Russia a lot of trouble. How would it even launch an attack? How would it defend itself? It has two hostile nations on its door step. One that is a long time ally of Russia and the other would take any opportunity to capitalise against it.

    As for the actual thread - I can't believe the number of people coming on here and saying "obviously x will in". There is only obvious thing in war and that is that nothing is obvious.

    So many intangible things that cannot be measured beforehand. There are developments every day that change the circumstances. Every country has different goals, strategies and objectives.

    If we are talking about a hypothetical, all the way till the end conflict - for the sake of it, I would probably put my money on the USA. But there is no guarantees.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    You didn't read a word I said did you?

    May I also remind you that modern conventional warfare does not rely on manpower alone, it also requires technology, training and reliable equipment, which western countries are far superior. For example, ships today a merely targets for anti ship missiles, such as the excocet misssile, rather than a real reflection of military power.
    How do you know Russias technology is out of date? Because of the media? Powerful countries like Russia would not go public and be like "here we are, all of our missiles and nuclear weapons, tanks, ships etc is out of date" Its all done secretly, no country would go public and speak about the new missile that they have developed, simply because other countries will try and copy in order to compete.
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    (Original post by Sir Fox)
    Without a doubt Russia is not one of the two most powerful countries in the world. China is the second most powerful nation on the planet.

    And currently the US would still beat anyone in a conventional war.
    China's military is still lacking compared to the likes of Russia/USA, I've heard...
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    (Original post by Login)
    The USA couldn't survive the war in Vietnam, how can they possibly even be considered a realistic opponent for Russia? Especially since China have Russia's back.
    Blantantly different type of warfare, unless the Russians fought a guerilla war like the Vietcong.
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    People who keep talking about US military spending being so high, aren't considering the fact that a lot of that spending is on fighting current wars and not all on increasing actual military strength.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I don't see how they could possibly be any more battle hardened. The war in Georgia lasted a week, and the only other fighting has been an insurgency in Chechnya. I cannot see how they could be any more battle hardened than NATO troop many of whom will have seen multiple deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq. As for fitness the same will be true of most forces, at the upper end fitness is at athletic standards the rest will be average across the board. The avenge US or UK solider will be far better trained than the average, just as reflection of the money available for training exercises.
    Considering the training that Russian soldiers go through when they are drafted, they are harder than US soldiers, the amount of people that are killed in training alone is staggering. Maybe battle hardened was the wrong phrase to use but my G-d they are harder and rely on their mind and what they have at their disposal on the ground more than the US whom are greatly relying on technology that will only backfire one day.

    (Original post by the mezzil)
    It also requires technology and reliable equipment, which western countries are far superior.
    How do you know that Russia are not far superior to the US? it is incredibly hard to find up to date details on Russian military hardware that has been made public and unlike the US, most of the military hardware they use, they made themselves (as in government owned corporations) whereas the US has private corporations building them and thus details of military advancements come out more readily (due to arms sales) than from a closed off source such as Russia.
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    (Original post by ChelseaFCCC)
    How do you know Russias technology is out of date? Because of the media? Powerful countries like Russia would not go public and be like "here we are, all of our missiles and nuclear weapons, tanks, ships etc is out of date" Its all done secretly, no country would go public and speak about the new missile that they have developed, simply because other countries will try and copy in order to compete.
    No, I know because I have studied both past and present military conflicts and abilities, I am well informed in this area and I know for a fact that a lot of Russian military equipment is mothballed and not maintained to a decent standard.

    Anyway, by going by that fact (which is true, I give you that) so to does Britain and France have secret military projects and capabilities, such as the Mantis and the BAE Systems Taranis.

    I must remind you that how many tanks a country has does not really tell us anything, for example the T -34 is claimed to be one of the best tanks in history, however the USSR produced 57,224 of them from 1941 - 1945, but lost 44,900. This shows that how superior tanks, such as the German tigers could make mincemeat out of them.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Considering the training that Russian soldiers go through when they are drafted, they are harder than US soldiers, the amount of people that are killed in training alone is staggering. Maybe battle hardened was the wrong phrase to use but my G-d they are harder and rely on their mind and what they have at their disposal on the ground more than the US whom are greatly relying on technology that will only backfire one day.
    3 months, its not different to that of most other forces. Its a 1 year service period so many will only have 9 months a service before leaving, not to mention the massive cull in their forces meaning very few will have active service experience. Death in training is not a sign of difficulty its just incompetence, poor safety standards and equipment don't mean a better solider is produced. I would also disagree with the idea they are mentally tougher, a volunteer will 90% be more motivated to succeed than a conscript. I don't think the US or any NATO troops rely heavily on technology more they are used to working with different branches such as the air force. I don't think that means they are incapable of not using it.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Considering the training that Russian soldiers go through when they are drafted, they are harder than US soldiers, the amount of people that are killed in training alone is staggering. Maybe battle hardened was the wrong phrase to use but my G-d they are harder and rely on their mind and what they have at their disposal on the ground more than the US whom are greatly relying on technology that will only backfire one day.


    How do you know that Russia are not far superior to the US? it is incredibly hard to find up to date details on Russian military hardware that has been made public and unlike the US, most of the military hardware they use, they made themselves (as in government owned corporations) whereas the US has private corporations building them and thus details of military advancements come out more readily (due to arms sales) than from a closed off source such as Russia.
    Nobody knows for certain, heck, they could have a invisible robot army for all we know! But I am making an informed judgment that I can say for 99% certainty that the USA has far superior technology and military hardware than Russia. Do you think otherwise?

    Also for the other bit, you can be the toughest guy in the world, but 1 bullet in the right place from a well trained and well experienced and equipped opponent renders it useless.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Nobody knows for certain, heck, they could have a invisible robot army for all we know! But I am making an informed judgment that I can say for 99% certainty that the USA has far superior technology and military hardware than Russia. Do you think otherwise?
    You say "Nobody knows for certain" and then you say "I can say for 99% certainty"... you have just contradicted yourself, just because it is 1% below 100% doesn't mean you can use it after stating "Nobody knows for certain"!

    Yes I think otherwise, you'd be a fool not to, especially with the snippets that have come out over the years.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    You say "Nobody knows for certain" and then you say "I can say for 99% certainty"... you have just contradicted yourself, just because it is 1% below 100% doesn't mean you can use it after stating "Nobody knows for certain"!

    Yes I think otherwise, you'd be a fool not to, especially with the snippets that have come out over the years.
    I rephrase then, I'm pretty sure, given the amount spent by the USA that their R&D is far superior than Russias. That doesn't mean I think Russia has insignificant R&D, far from it, it just means I'm certain that the USA has a far better equipped armed forces with more technologically advanced hardware.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Nobody knows for certain, heck, they could have a invisible robot army for all we know! But I am making an informed judgment that I can say for 99% certainty that the USA has far superior technology and military hardware than Russia. Do you think otherwise?

    Also for the other bit, you can be the toughest guy in the world, but 1 bullet in the right place from a well trained and well experienced and equipped opponent renders it useless.
    You wana know what Russians army has? ill tell you.

    A new well developed tank... if it drives past you, you will never hear it.
    The most powerful non-nuclear bomb on the planet.

    I only know these two.... not a lot, but makes a difference.
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    (Original post by ChelseaFCCC)
    You wana know what Russians army has? ill tell you.

    A new well developed tank... if it drives past you, you will never hear it.
    The most powerful non-nuclear bomb on the planet.

    I only know these two.... not a lot, but makes a difference.
    http://www.howstuffworks.com/invisible-tank.htm
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ive-years.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgi4g7-PikU


    ALSO http://www.wired.com/politics/securi.../russian_bomb#
 
 
 
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