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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But of course that is entirely the wrong measure from the perspective of a patient. The patient doesn't care whether something is better than a hypothetical placebo. The patient cares whether it is better than the status quo, whether that is receiving no treatment or receiving a treatment with which he or she is dissatisfied in some way.
    The problem is they're paying out the nose for water. They may as well just be drinking tap water, rather than paying £50 for 'double helix water'.

    Edit: £50 for 15ml of said water. Bargain.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But of course that is entirely the wrong measure from the perspective of a patient. The patient doesn't care whether something is better than a hypothetical placebo. The patient cares whether it is better than the status quo, whether that is receiving no treatment or receiving a treatment with which he or she is dissatisfied in some way.
    The patient should care when in many cases they are paying a significant amount of money for placebos and the suppliers are making a ridiculous amount of profit on them. It is deception, pure and simple.
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    Can anyone who believes in the efficacy of homeopathy give me a peer-reviewed paper that supports the conclusion that it works as anything more than a placebo?
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    Mitchel and Webb have looked into this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
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    (Original post by pjm600)
    Did they taste sugary?
    I can't remember.

    Anyhow I did take some phosphorus ones once for nosebleeds (they weren't sugary) and they completely stopped.
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    (Original post by pjm600)
    The problem is they're paying out the nose for water. They may as well just be drinking tap water, rather than paying £50 for 'double helix water'.

    Edit: £50 for 15ml of said water. Bargain.

    (Original post by coconut2456)
    The patient should care when in many cases they are paying a significant amount of money for placebos and the suppliers are making a ridiculous amount of profit on them. It is deception, pure and simple.
    Please find me the victims. Please find me people who are not entirely satisfied with the way they have spent their own money.
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    (Original post by Pinkhead)
    Can anyone who believes in the efficacy of homeopathy give me a peer-reviewed paper that supports the conclusion that it works as anything more than a placebo?
    http://ict.sagepub.com/content/5/4/362.short

    Seems quite credible as it's sagepub, I've only read the abstract so far so it might be flawed.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Please find me the victims. Please find me people who are not entirely satisfied with the way they have spent their own money.
    How about the children who died because their parents bought into this nonsense?

    http://discoverhomeopathy.co.uk/?page_id=116
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Please find me the victims. Please find me people who are not entirely satisfied with the way they have spent their own money.
    Done: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2011/s3260776.htm
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    Please see the discussion here:

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...ght=homeopathy

    I don't think it works more than any other placebo.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Then why bother with double blind trials? If it doesn't make a difference? Sorry if that's a daft question, it justs seems logical
    True - OK, it probably does make a bit of a difference, but not as much as we feel it should (I'm afraid I haven't seen the numbers on this.)
    But partly I suspect it's to stop people receiving the true medicine from getting the placebo effect plus pharmacological effects - not necessarily the other way round (which would be to stop people receiving the placebo from getting the placebo effect). Also it helps prevent the doctor (un)consciously selecting those patients who will do best anyway for the drug, and thereby inflating the drug's effects.
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    (Original post by Smaug123)
    True - OK, it probably does make a bit of a difference, but not as much as we feel it should (I'm afraid I haven't seen the numbers on this.)
    But partly I suspect it's to stop people receiving the true medicine from getting the placebo effect plus pharmacological effects - not necessarily the other way round (which would be to stop people receiving the placebo from getting the placebo effect). Also it helps prevent the doctor (un)consciously selecting those patients who will do best anyway for the drug, and thereby inflating the drug's effects.
    Fair enough, that does make sense.
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    (Original post by coconut2456)
    How about the children who died because their parents bought into this nonsense?

    http://discoverhomeopathy.co.uk/?page_id=116
    That is a different issue, but on this issue, where is the evidence that most, if not all of these patients, would have accepted treatment by conventional medicine if they had not been offered homeopathy?

    This is an example of the selective deployment of causation. It is isn't enough that you show someone declined conventional therapy in favour of homeopathy. You have to prove they would have accepted conventional therapy but for being offered homeopathy.
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    (Original post by Iron Lady)
    Does it work?

    Thanks.
    I wonder if this is how crystal meth was formed?
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    It was pills, not water...
    Homeopathic pills contain 100% lactose.
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    it's pretendy medicine, why don't you just pretend you've tried it?
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Wrong, lack of rigorous scientific study led people to believe the world was flat. Except it didn't, because we've known the Earth to be round since pretty much forever.
    Not forever, since around 500 BC when the Greeks came to that conclusion after erm... rigorous study.
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    Rejection of homeopathy is a pretty decent litmus test for possession of basic scientific literacy and critical thinking skills.
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    Homeapathy is to healthcare as theism is to philosophy.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That is a different issue, but on this issue, where is the evidence that most, if not all of these patients, would have accepted treatment by conventional medicine if they had not been offered homeopathy?

    This is an example of the selective deployment of causation. It is isn't enough that you show someone declined conventional therapy in favour of homeopathy. You have to prove they would have accepted conventional therapy but for being offered homeopathy.
    As, for instance, the person who wrote what I linked above did: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2011/s3260776.htm
 
 
 
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