Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

If you are English, do you support Scottish independence? Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by christanmu)
    Because I cared when I commented, around a week ago.
    I didnt realise Scotlands share of public spending had been dramatically reduced within the last week to change your attitude on the subject....
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rotterdamhibs)
    I didnt realise Scotlands share of public spending had been dramatically reduced within the last week to change your attitude on the subject....
    Well you know, figures get blurred words get said.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by christanmu)
    Well you know, figures get blurred words get said.
    Well said,a very tory reply!
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    In response to the OP/other peoples arguments why not cut everywhere not around London out while we are at it?
    Can't remember the exact stats, but if you did that and called the new area England, it would be the richest country per person etc.
    The UK is stronger as a whole nation, the entire idea of Scottish Independence is just hot air from politicians, who are generally bored with having no exciting issues like a war to talk about anymore.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    For it, just so uk students don't get so much racism towards them in having to pay £9000 a year in uni fees in scotland when no one else does.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    To be fair we've been English far longer than we've been British (or at least, around the same amount of time, depending on where you draw the line of England having a sense of "Englishness" about it).

    But even with that said, I personally think we would be better off united than separate... I just think that if the UK were to break up, we would collectively become weaker and matter less in the world than if we were united - though maybe that's not such a bad thing... only time would tell I suppose.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by forfrosne)
    Hahahaha let's see how far that belief gets you when you turn up in Australia and when they ask to see your passport you tell them "Nations don't really exist."
    That's a matter of statehood, not nationhood. States may sometimes reflect national identities, but they're not the same thing.

    Here's a useful fact for you: individual nations do have unique cultures that apply solely to them and which are a direct result of what the people of that nation have done.
    Very few cultural pursuits are in any way 'national' and certainly rarely unique. People are influenced by a broad range of cultures from different parts of the globe and - in turn - spread their cultures beyond their own borders.

    I do not believe that they try to create a 'fictionalised' homogeneity. I believe countries actually do have very obvious and important cultures that are unique to them. China, Britain, France, Germany, wherever; these countries have unique cultures that, largely speaking, do not exist outside of their borders, though they have influenced others
    That sounds like a direct contradiction to me. I remind you that China is one of the most diverse countries in the world without having considerable immigration. China is a land of numerous languages, 56 officially recognised ethnic groups and cities like Shanghai or Hong Kong were foreign influence has shaped them more than domestic cultures.

    The difference is that racial theory had no evidence to back it up.

    'Nationalism' has history to back it up. There are objective cultural differences between countries, objectively different histories and origins that separate them.
    Nope. In fact, virtually every nation has an objectively overlapping "origin" and history. British history, for example, cannot be remotely understood without relation to wider European history, particularly in areas like religion, wars and social influences.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    In fact, the family argument is actually quite relevant as after 300 years the UK is so intertwied that we have our own unique culture made of of regional differences, that SNP supporters don't seem to be ale to comprehend.
    And what does this have to do with family?

    I would never describe myself as a 'nationalist' and hate the fact that it's what supporters of Scottish independence are commonly refered to as.

    With an increasingly smaller and integrated world, I don't see how putting up a 'cultural barrier' at Dover makes any more sense than putting one up at Berwick.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    This presupposes you primarily consider your identity in ethnic terms. Which most people don't.
    That's pretty much the whole point I was trying to make. Saying "we're all British" is as poor an argument for unionism as "we're all Scottish" is for nationalism.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by forfrosne)
    You're making an issue of something that isn't one. Scotland is already a country, it's simply part of a union. Way to overcomplicate a non-issue LOL

    Also There isn't really any objective definition of a country" has to be the most laughably stupid line I've heard all week. An absolute non-sentence, lacking in any meaning or purpose.
    I didn't say Scotland isn't a country. But Scotland's status as a country is an internal UK matter, not something that really has much political meaning outside of the UK. Lots of places are "unions", and as far as unions go, the UK is a pretty close one. The fact that we call the constituent parts "countries" rather than provinces or states or whatever else doesn't really change that.

    Do you think there is an objective definition of a country?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    And what does this have to do with family?

    I would never describe myself as a 'nationalist' and hate the fact that it's what supporters of Scottish independence are commonly refered to as.
    It is rather strange when Scottish independence supporters say they're not nationalists. They just happen to support sovereignty for a unit which is, primarily, considered to have a nationalistic identity. That's peculiar for a start.

    Moreso, however, is the use of nationalist arguments. Yes Scotland of course does just that.

    With an increasingly smaller and integrated world, I don't see how putting up a 'cultural barrier' at Dover makes any more sense than putting one up at Berwick.
    Indeed, but if you were to reject both British and Scottish nationalism, and be a progressive in such terms seeking a world surpassing such identities, you'd reject Scottish nationalism and independence.

    I know, a few socialists have tried to justify this by suggesting Scotland would be more internationalist in outlook, but realistically it's about as convincing as the famous giraffe wearing dark sunglasses trying to get into a polar bears only golf club.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    That's pretty much the whole point I was trying to make. Saying "we're all British" is as poor an argument for unionism as "we're all Scottish" is for nationalism.
    But in placing it entirely in ethnic terms, you've ignored civic nationalism, cultural nationalism and so forth. Not that I'm saying any of these concepts is good, but in reality many people ascribe to a vaguely nationalist outlook on some level - and for most, it's not primarily ethnic.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    It is rather strange when Scottish independence supporters say they're not nationalists. They just happen to support sovereignty for a unit which is, primarily, considered to have a nationalistic identity. That's peculiar for a start.

    Moreso, however, is the use of nationalist arguments. Yes Scotland of course does just that.
    Someone who supports independence for Scotland is not neccesarily any more of a 'Scottish nationalist' than someone who supports being part of the union is a 'British nationalist'.


    Indeed, but if you were to reject both British and Scottish nationalism, and be a progressive in such terms seeking a world surpassing such identities, you'd reject Scottish nationalism and independence.
    Anybody with the slightest hint of pragmatism will recognise that that's not the choice and won't be anywhere near to happening in any of our lifetimes. You can be idealistic and still realise that you work with the situation you're in.

    I know, a few socialists have tried to justify this by suggesting Scotland would be more internationalist in outlook, but realistically it's about as convincing as the famous giraffe wearing dark sunglasses trying to get into a polar bears only golf club.
    I don't buy any side of the socialist/one-world/no borders/internationalism arguments on either side. This isn't what this referendum is about for me.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    But in placing it entirely in ethnic terms, you've ignored civic nationalism, cultural nationalism and so forth. Not that I'm saying any of these concepts is good, but in reality many people ascribe to a vaguely nationalist outlook on some level - and for most, it's not primarily ethnic.
    Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough or maybe you should re-read that part of the discussion. I did specifically reject the ethnic aspect to this, whether that comes from a nationalist or unionist angle.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by wortandbeer)
    I am English, and I want the UK to break up. People will flame me, but we're entitled to our opinions.

    Think of it, England would be a G20 economy, have world class universities (Are Strathclyde or Glasgow high in the global league tables?), attract plenty of tourists (some may say London biases the figures, and granted it does, but it's not as if Windsor Castle or Stratford upon Avon are in London, is it?)

    I think more English people should openly support Scottish independence. I for one hold no real "nostalgia" for the UK, and frankly it was the English who laid the major initial building blocks of the British Empire (yeah.. the Scots founded the John and Royal African Companies, or fought the Dutch for the north American colonies lol..)
    Well if Scotland leaves it'll mean more chance of winning a prize if you have Premium bonds!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The ONLY reason Scotland is still part of the UK is cos we get oil from them. Apart from that they're a friggen drain on our resources, I REALLY hope they're dumb enough to vote for independence so we can finally be rid of them.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maybenexttime)
    The ONLY reason Scotland is still part of the UK is cos we get oil from them. Apart from that they're a friggen drain on our resources, I REALLY hope they're dumb enough to vote for independence so we can finally be rid of them.
    And which resources does scotland drain from england? Thankfully not all english people are like you!
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I support Scottish autonomy rather than independence, we're stronger as a union.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maybenexttime)
    The ONLY reason Scotland is still part of the UK is cos we get oil from them. Apart from that they're a friggen drain on our resources, I REALLY hope they're dumb enough to vote for independence so we can finally be rid of them.
    Er....so you acknowledge that the UK takes oil from Scotland to balance their books...yet Scotland are the ones draining your resources?

    LOLWAT?!?!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cowsforsale)
    Er....so you acknowledge that the UK takes oil from Scotland to balance their books...yet Scotland are the ones draining your resources?

    LOLWAT?!?!
    "Scotland 'got' £16.5bn more in UK public spending in 2009-10 than it contributed to total UK revenues - or a 'subsidy' of around £3,150 per head."
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.