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    (Original post by Thinking_Aloud)
    Indeed. Though that sounds more like murder than manslaughter as it was premeditated.



    Personally, I think guns are more trouble than they're worth. So I do support gun control.
    I don't think the right to kill someone else comes under personal freedoms, which is basically what wanting a gun is about. You would only want a gun for self-defence if you can imagine a situation in which you would use it against another human being.
    Though as you said controls could be put in place, there will always be people trying to get around it. Always be people who don't keep their guns in secure locations, even if the law required it. Relaxing the law is asking for trouble.
    There is nothing wrong with the system we've got at the moment. You can still use guns (air rifles etc) on licensed premises, but you don't have to own one.
    If it's not broken, don't fix it.
    You've made some good pints there. But people who shoot don't own guns to kill people. They own them because they're a pleasure to shoot. They are in many cases fine examples of craftsmanship and I know from my interactions with Americans I know that they're also invested in a traded like fine wines or art.

    When they're used in self defence it's not the gun, but the action of self defence. I would personally batter an attacker to death who threatened my life because if want to survive I'll do whatever it takes gun or no gun.

    You are right that gun control is problematic. But banning something that can in the hands of the wrong person give them power does just push them to source weapons illegally.

    You are right that legal weapons can fall into the wrong hands, but as we saw in Dunblane and Hingerford, there was ample warnings from the gun clubs that Hamilton and Ryan who flagged their concerns to the authorities, but in both cases action wasn't taken.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Shooting is however an enjoyable hobby.

    We've pretty much banned firearms in the UK.

    Criminal elements merely get hold of them anyway.
    If you legalize it, more criminal elements would get a hold of them. Storing them in gun clubs may be more sensible if they have 24/7 security but allowing personal ownership would just increase the mortality rate in domestic dispute cases. Also, they are at risk of burglary, which would put these guns in the hands of criminals.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You've made some good pints there. But people who shoot don't own guns to kill people. They own them because they're a pleasure to shoot. They are in many cases fine examples of craftsmanship and I know from my interactions with Americans I know that they're also invested in a traded like fine wines or art.
    I was talking about owning one for self-defence, in which case the aim is to kill someone otherwise you would not use the gun.
    I see nothing wrong with using guns on licensed premises with secure storage, but as I said you do not need to own a gun individually. You can look at art in art galleries without buying it. You can shoot a gun for sport without having to actually take said gun home with you. For this case restrictions on firearms use should not be lifted or lightened.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    When they're used in self defence it's not the gun, but the action of self defence. I would personally batter an attacker to death who threatened my life because if want to survive I'll do whatever it takes gun or no gun.
    This illustrates my point, although perhaps without the death bit, you do not need a gun for self-defence.
    But what would you do if you yourself were threatened with a gun? This is much more likely to happen if gun controls are relaxed, as well as this it would most likely be your own gun.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You are right that gun control is problematic. But banning something that can in the hands of the wrong person give them power does just push them to source weapons illegally.

    You are right that legal weapons can fall into the wrong hands, but as we saw in Dunblane and Hingerford, there was ample warnings from the gun clubs that Hamilton and Ryan who flagged their concerns to the authorities, but in both cases action wasn't taken.
    The latter paragraph does show that the fault is with the authorities, but if they didn't have a gun in the first place then it wouldn't have happened. Even if a gun was gained illegally, they most likely would not be able to use it and the involvement in such activity makes them more likely to be caught in which case it also wouldn't have happened.
    The former paragraph though is true, it is only for a minority of people. The thing is that you don't know which hands are the wrong hands until you actually try, therefore someone who has never used a gun, won't be buying a gun illegally, because they have no interest in doing so.
    In your reference to banning guns were you talking about the US? In which case then there would be an initial problem, but as long as this is controlled over the long term such involvement would die out as for people who have never used a gun, they would have no interest in buying one. If guns aren't given such an important position in society then society won't need them and they won't be used or bought.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    When they're used in self defence it's not the gun, but the action of self defence.
    It's still a gun no matter what. It is a tool that can be used in self-defence, but whatever the situation a gun's primary function is to kill. That is what guns were created for and that is how they are used even in sport.

    Used to kill in sport= originally used to kill animals, over time things have been created to represent the thing to kill, these are the targets. Even if they are an inanimate object and you are not actually killing something it is what they represent and what shooting it represents that I am referring to.
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    Lets put it this way.... accounting for population, the US has twice as many people murdered by firearms than we have murdered in any way.

    Don't think it would really do anything that start a arms race between criminals and those scared of criminals.

    Though you can already own a gun in northern Ireland for personal protection...
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    Its not illegal to own most firearms and shotguns. Its just well regulated. Gun crime would bot increase if it was slightly liberalised- if it was open to everyone and completely unregulated it would though. that and handgun crime has soared since the handgun ban. Also, its not hard to get a gun illegally here, 'antique' or 'obsolete calibre' weapons are far more to blame as they can be altered or have ammunition made and are unregulated, also criminals could not give less of a :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin: whether or not something is illegal. Laws dont make a blind bit of difference.
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    (Original post by MontyHobbs)
    Its not illegal to own most firearms and shotguns. Its just well regulated. Gun crime would bot increase if it was slightly liberalised- if it was open to everyone and completely unregulated it would though. that and handgun crime has soared since the handgun ban. Also, its not hard to get a gun illegally here, 'antique' or 'obsolete calibre' weapons are far more to blame as they can be altered or have ammunition made and are unregulated, also criminals could not give less of a :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin: whether or not something is illegal. Laws dont make a blind bit of difference.
    Thread's been dead for 3 years, fella...
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    (Original post by FreedomCostsTax)
    In my view, I can see no valid reason as to why the state should prevent its citizens from owning a firearm for the purposes of self-defence (as people were previously able to do prior to 1920).

    Statistics show that in the UK: A rape is reported every 6 minutes, every 30 minutes someone is robbed at knife-point, a house is broken into every two minutes and on average two women a week are murdered as a result of domestic violence.

    People should be able to fully defend themselves and their families.

    What are your thoughts?

    Edit: Many people are commenting 'Firearms are legal, you idiot!' - yes, certain firearms can be acquired once being issued a licence after strict conditions are met (generally being a member of a shooting range or something of that nature), but not for the purposes of self-defence, which is what this thread is about.
    Contrary to popular belief. Its actually not easy to use a gun. You need lots and lots of training and nerves to use it properly in a panic situation. Its justified to restrict gun ownership to those who are well trained.

    You would prefer an untrained person to be able to use a gun without undergoing rigorous training?
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    The concept 'legally defend themselves' is hugely ambiguous and we would just end up with similar attitudes to the baseball bat- we would convict the people who 'defended themselves' (maybe for life), and other times let people off for murder to someone who wasn't a threat (possibly aided by police racism etc) and in the mean time go down the woeful American route.

    I can't stand these people using Brexit to talk of firearms and the death penalty, and probably chucking out disabled people onto a kind of British 'Skid Row' as well.

    Have these cretins lost their minds?
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    Stupid idea.
 
 
 
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