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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    People often gloss over the realities of the scandinavian system just to make a point, especially the part where you can`t claim anything in Sweden until you`ve paid in for at least 1 year.......
    Same in Norway I think, then the benefits only last a year AFAIK? Or at least at the more generous amount people discuss (80% of average salary), also to get the 80% I think you have to include yourself in a work based social security scheme? Which I assume results in a small pension-esque contribution. At least I believe that's how it is in Sweden.

    And as said, if you're on long term unemployment benefits the state can basically throw a job at you, cleaner, binman etc, it can be in a totally different area to where you live and although the state will support your move, you will take that job and you will move, there is little room for "My degree is design I can;t work in a supermarket!".
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    Ok. You had "several times" 8k in savings and a regular income from the TA. What should the tax payer have given you ? Did you apply for housing benefit ?
    A regular income of about £1200/year paid mostly into 2 batches, the next one of which was about 7 months away. Everybody is entitled to contribution based JSA. It`s what your NI pays for. Not eligible for housing benefit - but I knew that in advance.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Yes actually, I think that or the issuing of rations/ food vouchers would be a very good idea. Tories do not kill or enslave, that's labour and the Iraq war. And it is not "your" country and I don't swallow propaganda anymore than you do.
    Is there actually any economic argument behind why you want to remove people's basic freedoms like that or is it just about controlling poor people because you can?
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    N'awwww poor little legs might get a bit tired having to walk a bit far? N'awwwwww.

    Guess what people used to do before things called cars were invented? Walk. Its not difficult, its not a punishment so stop being so pathetic. It is also good for ones health, so stop looking for absurd execuses. Im also certain the disabled get more benefits, maybe they could use that extra money for..... home delivery?!?!?! *shock horror*

    1.5 miles is not far and should not be an over exergation, if you are a fit young man who is moaning about having to walk that far with a few bags of canned food, thank **** you were not born in the 1920's. In fact you are lucky just to be born at all!

    Im fed up with this poncy softy gimme gimme culture in Britain. The state owes you nothing. You are not entitled to a supermarket within a 5 metre distance. Deal with it.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    What a spiteful, angry aura this post gives off. Bad chi man.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Then why not say 'microwave meals'?

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    I presume it's because it's not limited to microwave-meals.

    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Tories do not kill or enslave, that's labour and the Iraq war.
    Cameron backed Blair's decision to go into Iraq.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Well were now in record a period of record employement. The economies bouncing back so they'll be more jobs to choose from .
    Not counted in the unemployment figures:
    - self employed (44% of the supposed fall in unemployment is people declared themselve this, if you think they are all off earning money installing lagging and trimming hedges 35 hours a week I don't know where to begin)
    - those of middling means hounded off unemployment benefits due to ridiculous conditionality
    - those on benefits but currently serving a sanction (job centres work to sanction targets and often invent missed appointments etc)
    - those on ESA in the support group - not fit for work in any way
    - those in full time education
    - people on zero hours contracts even if they don't actually get any work (and the uncertainty is hardly a recipe for economic stability)
    - people mandated to work for free on the Work Programme, the DWP's slave labour scheme (for which the employer gets a bung to boot)
    - people waiting on appeal for the overturn of decisions by the disability denial factories (ballpark waiting list 6 months)

    Does any of that sound like employment to you? Does it sound like dynamic, positive economic growth?

    In fact the 7% figure has not the slightest thing to do with employment. It measures nothing more the number of people not at that moment claiming out-of-work benefits. Isn't it strange that we should have magically attained the 7% figure given that it is an explicit target?

    Get a clue before you go believing figures put about by the government.
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    (Original post by Burridge)
    Cameron backed Blair's decision to go into Iraq.
    Don't let them set the terms of the argument, that was premier league whataboutery. It'll be "the mess left to us by Labour" next!
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    What the cuts are about - shame on anyone trying to defend them

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...r-benefits-cut

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...coma-find-work
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Not counted in the unemployment figures:
    - self employed (44% of the supposed fall in unemployment is people declared themselve this, if you think they are all off earning money installing lagging and trimming hedges 35 hours a week I don't know where to begin)
    - those of middling means hounded off unemployment benefits due to ridiculous conditionality
    - those on benefits but currently serving a sanction (job centres work to sanction targets and often invent missed appointments etc)
    - those on ESA in the support group - not fit for work in any way
    - those in full time education
    - people on zero hours contracts even if they don't actually get any work (and the uncertainty is hardly a recipe for economic stability)
    - people mandated to work for free on the Work Programme, the DWP's slave labour scheme (for which the employer gets a bung to boot)
    - people waiting on appeal for the overturn of decisions by the disability denial factories (ballpark waiting list 6 months)

    Does any of that sound like employment to you? Does it sound like dynamic, positive economic growth?

    In fact the 7% figure has not the slightest thing to do with employment. It measures nothing more the number of people not at that moment claiming out-of-work benefits. Isn't it strange that we should have magically attained the 7% figure given that it is an explicit target?

    Get a clue before you go believing figures put about by the government.
    I've got a clue. I can just see what's happening around me. Things are definitely improving.

    Tell me. Are you one of these people who still talk about a triple dip recession?

    The UK is spending more money than it earns. High taxes don't work, cut backs do.
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    (Original post by suedonim)
    What the cuts are about - shame on anyone trying to defend them

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...r-benefits-cut

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...coma-find-work
    You do know the UK has the fastest growing economy in the developed world don't you?
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    (Original post by russellsteapot)
    Very much a political story. Food banks are growing in popularity because people know about them and they're more accessible. The fact that a million people (allegedly) have used them tells us nothing about the lifestyle these people lead. What percentage walked away from the food bank smoking? How many have Sky? Designer clothing?

    Most people who are in poverty in this country are in relative, not absolute, poverty. Those on benefits can still afford to feed themselves and can afford to live. Food banks tend to be 'needed' as a result of other lifestyle choices and because people spend their money on other stuff. Tell people there's a free food service, and they'll use it.

    I have no doubt that some people do need these. But I don't think the majority do need food banks, nor do I think it's a viable political football to kick around.

    Perhaps if Labour hadn't encouraged such a benefit-dependent culture in the first place people wouldn't complain when the bloated wreck of a welfare state was cut a little bit.
    I work in a food bank myself for the Matthew Tree and I can tell you that people from all sorts of walks in life come through our doors. Some have 2 cars and a mortgage, others can't even afford a bus ticket and we accept all of them on the basis that for some unforeseen circumstance they are unable to feed themselves.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I've got a clue. I can just see what's happening around me. Things are definitely improving.

    Tell me. Are you one of these people who still talk about a triple dip recession?

    The UK is spending more money than it earns. High taxes don't work, cut backs do.
    Sigh, more simplistic anecdotal evidence. I also subjectively see things improving. But where do you live? I live in the south-east most of the time, which barely had a recession. Rich girls here have gaily spent the past four years binging on handbags and clothes. But this is the south-east, it's not Cornwall, Wales, Liverpool, Birmingham, Blackpool, Lincolnshire, Kent, whatever. Things are noticeably grimmer even in affluent Gloucestershire, where I'm properly from.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Sigh, more simplistic anecdotal evidence. I also subjectively see things improving. But where do you live? I live in the south-east most of the time, which barely had a recession. Rich girls here have gaily spent the past four years binging on handbags and clothes. But this is the south-east, it's not Cornwall, Wales, Liverpool, Birmingham, Blackpool, Lincolnshire, Kent, whatever. Things are noticeably grimmer even in affluent Gloucestershire, where I'm properly from.
    I'm in Edinburgh. Significant amounts of talk if doom and gloom and the sky falling in, but when I look around, life hasn't changed much for people. Quite interesting as we've recently lived through a huge economic down turn.
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    (Original post by Damask-)
    I worry that a lot of people on TSR think you can just walk into a food bank a few times a week and walk out with enough food to allow you to keep paying your Sky subscription for another two months.

    I can assure you, that is absolutely not how it works. :rolleyes:

    You can keep thinking that if it makes you feel better though. Keep thinking that poverty in this country is all relative and nobody is actually going hungry. Keep thinking they all have iPhones and nicotine addictions, and more kids than they can count. Keep thinking they've been unemployed their whole lives because they're too lazy to work. Ignorance is bliss after all.
    Although I understand your point, my view is similar to the type of person you described. This is mainly due to who I know on benefits- who AGREES (considering everyone on his street + his family is on benefits) that they smoke, have 'posh' clothes, have more kids than they can afford and are too lazy to find jobs, its more fun to sit at home watching their satellite tv. Let me remind you that this is the son of a family with benefits his whole life. I perfectly accept your point but you have to admit that maybe there is a problem with the system and some people are like that...

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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Sigh, more simplistic anecdotal evidence. I also subjectively see things improving. But where do you live? I live in the south-east most of the time, which barely had a recession. Rich girls here have gaily spent the past four years binging on handbags and clothes. But this is the south-east, it's not Cornwall, Wales, Liverpool, Birmingham, Blackpool, Lincolnshire, Kent, whatever. Things are noticeably grimmer even in affluent Gloucestershire, where I'm properly from.
    I don't want to be picky but I don't really understand your point and Kent is possible the most south-easterly you can get?

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    (Original post by somegirlcalledea)
    I don't want to be picky but I don't really understand your point and Kent is possible the most south-easterly you can get?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Selection bias. And Kent is quite poor, especially the coastal towns.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Selection bias. And Kent is quite poor, especially the coastal towns.
    Oh okay I see your point then I live in kent thats all

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'm in Edinburgh. Significant amounts of talk if doom and gloom and the sky falling in, but when I look around, life hasn't changed much for people. Quite interesting as we've recently lived through a huge economic down turn.
    Edinburgh has the highest housing costs outside the south of England and is a favoured home for multi-millionaires. Wikipedia says it is the strongest economy in the UK after London and has a higher proportion of professionals than anywhere else in the UK. It is the sixth biggest financial centre in Europe. It is by far the least deprived city in Scotland.

    Look outside your little personal bubble because life isn't great for the vast majority of people in this country.

    I have presented a cogent breakdown of how thoroughly the unemployment statistic you so gaily quote is fiddled. You have replied by changing the subject to your impressionistic assessment of something entirely unrelated. I suppose I can only expect such self-centredness from a right-wing libertarian whose chief concern is saving himself a few quid in tax while covering his ears and letting everything else go to rack and ruin around him. Is it too much for me to expect you to actually read and respond to the content of my post, or don't you like it because it doesn't fit with your comfortable little worldview?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Edinburgh has the highest housing costs outside the south of England and is a favoured home for multi-millionaires. Wikipedia says it is the strongest economy in the UK after London and has a higher proportion of professionals than anywhere else in the UK. It is the sixth biggest financial centre in Europe. It is by far the least deprived city in Scotland.

    Look outside your little personal bubble because life isn't great for the vast majority of people in this country.
    I`m at the opposite end of the M8 in Glasgow and I can assure you things are looking very rosy here. Aberdeen is booming due to a resurgence in offshore investment. Construction in London is booming - so much so employers are having trouble finding staff.

    Life is not great for a lot of people due to their own decisions and expectations. If you`ve got minimum skills, minimum education, and make a minimal contribution you can`t really expect anything else. There are plenty of people out there who blame "the rich" because they feel entitled to a 3bed semi, 2 cars, and a long-haul holiday despite only getting slightly over minimum wage.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Not counted in the unemployment figures:
    - self employed (44% of the supposed fall in unemployment is people declared themselve this, if you think they are all off earning money installing lagging and trimming hedges 35 hours a week I don't know where to begin)
    - those of middling means hounded off unemployment benefits due to ridiculous conditionality
    - those on benefits but currently serving a sanction (job centres work to sanction targets and often invent missed appointments etc)
    - those on ESA in the support group - not fit for work in any way
    - those in full time education
    - people on zero hours contracts even if they don't actually get any work (and the uncertainty is hardly a recipe for economic stability)
    - people mandated to work for free on the Work Programme, the DWP's slave labour scheme (for which the employer gets a bung to boot)
    - people waiting on appeal for the overturn of decisions by the disability denial factories (ballpark waiting list 6 months)

    Does any of that sound like employment to you? Does it sound like dynamic, positive economic growth?

    In fact the 7% figure has not the slightest thing to do with employment. It measures nothing more the number of people not at that moment claiming out-of-work benefits. Isn't it strange that we should have magically attained the 7% figure given that it is an explicit target?

    Get a clue before you go believing figures put about by the government.
    This is a really excellent post. The suspicion must remain that the very purpose of half the various schemes / rules / sanctions / exemptions is for the precise purpose of reducing the headline "unemployment figure" - a number which is only understood by economic statisticians. It is certainly not understood by TV journalists. The second part of the same statistical scam is that once people are "off the numbers" in the way described above even when they rejoin they show as unemployed for less than 6 months.
    I do not blame the government for being dishonest lying gits. I do blame the media for being so naive.
 
 
 
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