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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    but he has a point with all this homoromantic, genderqueer, pansexual dragonkin stuff surely? I mean a lot of it just seems like people making stuff up to appear more interesting, rather than actually defining their sexuality and sex
    Most of those are valid labels, though. Homoromantic just recognises the difference between romantic and sexual attraction, and has created a word to describe the former. Genderqueer just means you don't identify simply as a man or a woman, pansexuality is attraction to people regardless of their gender (where bisexual describes attraction to both sexes, pansexuality stretches to cover the transgender and non-binary genders that some cultures have). Certainly wouldn't view it as an attempt to appear more interesting or seek attention, just an effort to more accurately describe oneself.

    Personally, I call myself bisexual for the sake of simplicity and communication, and don't really care much for labels of my sexuality. But something like pansexual or polysexual is probably closer to the truth. There are those who believe, however, that bisexual is "all-encompassing", rather than restricted to the binary. And I think that's a perfectly good interpretation of the word.
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    Conchita will be a man to me. She can identify herself whatever she wants, don't really care but to me, I see her as a man.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Why? Women's changing rooms are for women, aren't they? And apparently whether or not you're a "woman" depends not on your biology, but on your own preference as to which gender people should refer to you as. By all the logic being used in this thread, it should work like that.
    It should, but it doesn't, which is why trans people have a somewhat difficult time.
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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    Most of those are valid labels, though. Homoromantic just recognises the difference between romantic and sexual attraction, and has created a word to describe the former. Genderqueer just means you don't identify simply as a man or a woman, pansexuality is attraction to people regardless of their gender (where bisexual describes attraction to both sexes, pansexuality stretches to cover the transgender and non-binary genders that some cultures have). Certainly wouldn't view it as an attempt to appear more interesting or seek attention, just an effort to more accurately describe oneself.

    Personally, I call myself bisexual for the sake of simplicity and communication, and don't really care much for labels of my sexuality. But something like pansexual or polysexual is probably closer to the truth. There are those who believe, however, that bisexual is "all-encompassing", rather than restricted to the binary. And I think that's a perfectly good interpretation of the word.
    Ok, I accept pan and poly-sexuality are real things given that some people are not quite man or woman and a word to denote sexual attraction towards them, does make sense. Non-binary genders I thus must also accept as real (and by this I mean people whose XY/XX chromosome are not quite one or the other). But this weird **** you see on tumblr, it sounds more like a character from a role-playing game, than a real person being described. Even when people say some days they feel more like a woman, some days they feel more like a man. Sounds like attention seeking to me, if one day you claim to feel more woman than man, what is stopping me from feeling more Black than White (I am White) or more tiger than human from time to time?
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    It should, but it doesn't, which is why trans people have a somewhat difficult time.
    I would have thought that, if the changing room you ought to use is determined by your own preference rather than by your biology, it completely defeats the purpose of having separate changing rooms in the first place.

    On a slightly related note, I wonder how many people think there is a difference between a "ladies/gents" changing room and a "female/male" changing room. Does a "transgendered" person (let's say a biological male who behaves like a woman) go into the "male" changing room whenever that type of label is used, and the "ladies" changing room whenever that type of label is used? What if the changing room has no words, but just has a picture of a person wearing a skirt or trousers as the symbol?
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    Ok, I accept pan and poly-sexuality are real things given that some people are not quite man or woman and a word to denote sexual attraction towards them, does make sense. Non-binary genders I thus must also accept as real (and by this I mean people whose XY/XX chromosome are not quite one or the other). But this weird **** you see on tumblr, it sounds more like a character from a role-playing game, than a real person being described. Even when people say some days they feel more like a woman, some days they feel more like a man. Sounds like attention seeking to me, if one day you claim to feel more woman than man, what is stopping me from feeling more Black than White (I am White) or more tiger than human from time to time?
    There's a link on this thread somewhere about a girl who considers herself to be part tortoise :laugh:
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I'm not quite sure why this thread has come to this, she is a drag Queen, it's not an LGBT issue as such, they are just referred to as "she" like when male actors play the roles of women etc

    but he has a point with all this homoromantic, genderqueer, pansexual dragonkin stuff surely? I mean a lot of it just seems like people making stuff up to appear more interesting, rather than actually defining their sexuality and sex
    LGBT+ includes non-binary gender identities too. It may seem to be attention seekers "making stuff up" but that's not the case. A person's identity is a very complex thing and it's difficult to understand if you've never experienced it before. It's hard to empathise and comprehend why someone would identify as a gender different to that of their biological sex, especially so if that gender does not conform to society's default binary view of gender, so I'm not going to be overly critical of people that are struggling to get their head around this. What I would encourage, however, is for people that don't understand this, to look at this with an open mind and take 5 or 10 minutes to just read about gender identity, to help answer some of those questions that you may have.
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    (Original post by ilem)
    There's a link on this thread somewhere about a girl who considers herself to be part tortoise :laugh:
    Exactly, pathetic

    in a slightly odd way, it could lead to racial stereotyping, like a White person saying

    "hurr durr, my Black identity is coming out today, really want to play basketball and eat friend chicken" :dunce:

    No you just want to play basketball and eat chicken
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    LGBT+ includes non-binary gender identities too. It may seem to be attention seekers "making stuff up" but that's not the case. A person's identity is a very complex thing and it's difficult to understand if you've never experienced it before. It's hard to empathise and comprehend why someone would identify as a gender different to that of their biological sex, especially so if that gender does not conform to society's default binary view of gender, so I'm not going to be overly critical of people that are struggling to get their head around this. What I would encourage, however, is for people that don't understand this, to look at this with an open mind and take 5 or 10 minutes to just read about gender identity, to help answer some of those questions that you may have.
    I see what you're saying, but when does being a drag Queen stop being an act and start becoming an integral part of your identity? If he was born a man and had surgery, hormones etc and "became" a woman, I would use the word "she" but to me drag, is just acting.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I would have thought that, if the changing room you ought to use is determined by your own preference rather than by your biology, it completely defeats the purpose of having separate changing rooms in the first place.
    Communal changing rooms with cubicles are the optimal solution.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I see what you're saying, but when does being a drag Queen stop being an act and start becoming an integral part of your identity? If he was born a man and had surgery, hormones etc and "became" a woman, I would use the word "she" but to me drag, is just acting.
    That's for Conchita to decide. Why is it our problem to define her?
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    That's for Conchita to decide. Why is it our problem to define her?
    Why is her drag a part of her which is protected, but not Blackface? If a White person said, they had this Black identity which sometimes comes out, where they have to put on Black make up and act like a buffoon, that is not fine, but dressing up as a woman and acting like a cartoon drawing of a woman is great. What's the difference?
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    Ok, I accept pan and poly-sexuality are real things given that some people are not quite man or woman and a word to denote sexual attraction towards them, does make sense. Non-binary genders I thus must also accept as real (and by this I mean people whose XY/XX chromosome are not quite one or the other). But this weird **** you see on tumblr, it sounds more like a character from a role-playing game, than a real person being described. Even when people say some days they feel more like a woman, some days they feel more like a man. Sounds like attention seeking to me, if one day you claim to feel more woman than man, what is stopping me from feeling more Black than White (I am White) or more tiger than human from time to time?
    And a lot of the "weird ****" that you describe is exactly just that: weird ****.
    Gender issues are exactly that: issues of gender identity. It doesn't describe a physical characteristic about yourself, but rather your place in society and the way you think and feel about yourself and others - it's kind of like sexuality that way. There's nothing physically different between a gay man and a straight man; it's just a difference in how they feel about other people (or how other people make them feel!). I don't think people decide to feel like a woman; I think it's something that just happens.

    The issue with "feeling black", or "feeling like a dragon", or "feeling blonde" is that these are all physical things dictated by your genotype. Race describes your physical characteristics and skin colour; species describes who you can reproduce with; hair colour describes the colour of your hair! There's no feeling involved with these things, unlike in sexuality and gender.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    Why is her drag a part of her which is protected, but not Blackface? If a White person said, they had this Black identity which sometimes comes out, where they have to put on Black make up and act like a buffoon, that is not fine, but dressing up as a woman and acting like a cartoon drawing of a woman is great. What's the difference?
    Because ethnicity and gender identity are not congruous.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Because ethnicity and gender identity are not congruous.
    Are they not?

    Neither are particularly scientific, most people have different ideas on what it means to belong to an ethnic group or gender
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    did you know that at cornell university they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the tunneling electron microscope?
    now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe...if i were using that microscope right now, i still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in the topic in discussion here -_-
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    I bet OP doesn't have any issues with referring to Dame Edna Everage as a she.
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    I don't like the beard. No problem if he wants to dress as a woman and be called she. But wearing a beard imo a) kind of makes fun of the whole thing (no actual woman would have that so why does he when he is pretending to be a woman?) and b) just looks silly.
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    As others have more eloquently pointed out, a drag act is acting. Whether or not [the person behind Conchita, I forget the name] wants to refer to themselves as 'he' or 'she' is neither here nor there, though it is part of their identity and up to them. When Conchita is on stage, she is a character. A female character. For example, Ms Fritton in St. Trinians. Now, we all know that Rupert Everett plays that character, very much a cisgendered man. However, when we are talking about the character Ms Fritton, and what she gets up to, describing her, we use the pronoun 'her' or 'she', because thanks to the suspension of disbelief expected when watching a film/ show, we know we can use seperate terms.
    In much the same way we refer to Drag Queens as 'she'.

    As for further trans/ genderqueer issues of pronouns, how about just accept you're cisgendered and don't have to put up with these problems or feelings, and pay trans+ people the respect they deserve, he, she or otherwise.
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    But the beard ... !!!! :beard:
 
 
 
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