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    (Original post by A Dev)
    Re highest unemployment rate of IT graduates..it is cheaper to hire offshore workers than train up graduates.
    True. But those who do are either in it for a quick buck, or really struggling because they have lost control of their core business asset. I managed a team of offshore devs once. Absolute nightmare - never again.
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    I think the reasons why we have such a high unemployment is because we lack skills sets also some IT graduates are the most unsociable people on planet earth.

    There's 1000's of jobs out there. We just need the right skills to fill them. Like my lecturer said you have to have the correct balance with skills and attributes
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    True. But those who do are either in it for a quick buck, or really struggling because they have lost control of their core business asset. I managed a team of offshore devs once. Absolute nightmare - never again.
    Kindly adjust and do the needful for the same.
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    (Original post by urbanlocations)
    I think the reasons why we have such a high unemployment is because we lack skills sets also some IT graduates are the most unsociable people on planet earth.

    There's 1000's of jobs out there. We just need the right skills to fill them. Like my lecturer said you have to have the correct balance with skills and attributes
    Entirely this.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Kindly adjust and do the needful for the same.
    Surely.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    I was referring to my basic pay, which is £60k, but that doesn't include my bonus (17% base + 8% performance, cash + spot share awards) + RSUs (worth about £12k a year at the current market rate) . And no, you're misunderstanding me. I could quite happily sit and just do my job and still maintain my position and my performance-related elements as a senior analyst. What I'm doing is feathering the nest for a principal level promotion, hopefully in the next 6-18 months, which would see me heading up towards £90k basic + bonus and bens.


    False. The majority of my friends at my level of seniority in industry have zero budget/people management responsibility. In terms of "building stakeholder buy in", I really wouldn't call being your director's technical wingman in conversations with the grown-ups, a management responsibility.

    Also, I note from your lack of response to my question, that you don't work in Security. Hmm.



    I can't speak for the rest of industry, but I'll cover off my experience:

    Year 1: Junior analyst - £27k (typically £25k)
    Year 2: Analyst - £31k
    Year 3: Senior Analyst - £40k
    Year 4: Senior Analyst (for a much better company) £~87k (forecast) for this year.
    I went to an assessment centre yesterday, originally I applied for just general software engineering but it seems they want lots of people for cyber security, so if i get it looks like i'd be going down that route. To me both routes are interesting to me so financially would you say it is more rewarding?
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    Better than a film degree LOL.

    Always a silver lining.
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    (Original post by jacktrex)
    I went to an assessment centre yesterday, originally I applied for just general software engineering but it seems they want lots of people for cyber security, so if i get it looks like i'd be going down that route. To me both routes are interesting to me so financially would you say it is more rewarding?
    I cannot comment as I have not worked in software engineering.
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    (Original post by jacktrex)
    I went to an assessment centre yesterday, originally I applied for just general software engineering but it seems they want lots of people for cyber security, so if i get it looks like i'd be going down that route. To me both routes are interesting to me so financially would you say it is more rewarding?
    There are lots of well paying niche areas in IT tech/consultancy and the like. Generally though regardless of the estimations in here the top end is around 60k with a 20% Annual/performance based bonus for PAYE salaries, unless you get to director level. If you want to make the good money get into contracting, whilst the average senior consultant salary maybe around 65k~ in London. The average contractor salary (depending on market) is usually around £500 a day, literally the market average.

    Also you pay much less than the 40% tax rate (which also applies to your bonuses!) on a compliant contract. It can easily add up to 3000 pounds more a month than PAYE, not to mention you can claim back expenses on lots of things and pay your own pension free of tax etc... If you do this you'll want to get an accountant at first but it's by far the best way other than taking huge risks to make money in this industry.
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    (Original post by ron_trns)
    There are lots of well paying niche areas in IT tech/consultancy and the like. Generally though regardless of the estimations in here the top end is around 60k with a 20% Annual/performance based bonus for PAYE salaries, unless you get to director level. If you want to make the good money get into contracting, whilst the average senior consultant salary maybe around 65k~ in London. The average contractor salary (depending on market) is usually around £500 a day, literally the market average.

    Also you pay much less than the 40% tax rate (which also applies to your bonuses!) on a compliant contract. It can easily add up to 3000 pounds more a month than PAYE, not to mention you can claim back expenses on lots of things and pay your own pension free of tax etc... If you do this you'll want to get an accountant at first but it's by far the best way other than taking huge risks to make money in this industry.
    The law is being changed so that a lot of the benefits of working as a contractor (eg. Technically running your own company, and paying yourself dividends rather than a salary) is being clamped down on.

    Also, depends what you're doing, but top end is definitely higher than 60k. I've seen base salaries doing what I do (granted, for more experienced people) all the way up to 75k, just for a developer, not a manager. I've seen occasional data science roles in the 100-120k range.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    The law is being changed so that a lot of the benefits of working as a contractor (eg. Technically running your own company, and paying yourself dividends rather than a salary) is being clamped down on.

    Also, depends what you're doing, but top end is definitely higher than 60k. I've seen base salaries doing what I do (granted, for more experienced people) all the way up to 75k, just for a developer, not a manager. I've seen occasional data science roles in the 100-120k range.
    Sorry, I was talking about generally. Better wording may have been "average top end", not literal top end. It's not impossible to see an architect on 80k+in London but most people are never going to see it.

    As far as I'm aware they have been trying to screw contractors for a while but it's still pretty easy to get an outside IR-35 contract written in terms that makes them hard to make a case against you. Especially if you're buying your own equipment, WFH sometimes and other such things that pretty much mean you are running your own company. Either way it's worth the risk IMO I was pulling in 3200~ more a month than I would have been on an equivalent permie salary.

    I'm not actually contracting now as my current company allows me to work from home and I'm only on site 2 days of the month - I'm situated far outside London. Which suits me better because finding the salary I'm on now outside of London is not gonna happen but if I were to go back to London, it'd be as a contractor only. If we are talking about literal top end, yeah you can find 100k positions but then again I know a few people who have the same required experience who made 1 grand a day on contracts.

    I'm specifically just going with market averages in the few branches of tech I have experience in.
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    I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Computer science is too broad and doesn't typically teach specialised skills to prepare you in the real world. It's up to students to actively pursue such skills and gain experience.

    Even web related courses aren't all that useful.

    I have yet to come across graduates pursuing a career in web development that can demonstrate proficiency in MVC/MVVM frameworks, libraries, version control, server administration, databases and SQL, APIs, scripting, task runners, testing, documentation, responsive design across multiple platforms etc.

    Many people confuse web development with simple HTML/CSS. It's not. Exposure to LAMP (or similar) and client/server-side JS frameworks would be a start, with a GitHub profile for demonstration.

    Salaries typically range from £18K - £70K+. Either in permanent roles or contracting.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Computer science is too broad and doesn't typically teach specialised skills to prepare you in the real world. It's up to students to actively pursue such skills and gain experience.

    Even web related courses aren't all that useful.

    I have yet to come across graduates pursuing a career in web development that can demonstrate proficiency in MVC/MVVM frameworks, libraries, version control, server administration, databases and SQL, APIs, scripting, task runners, testing, documentation, responsive design across multiple platforms etc.

    Many people confuse web development with simple HTML/CSS. It's not. Exposure to LAMP (or similar) and client/server-side JS frameworks would be a start, with a GitHub profile for demonstration.

    Salaries typically range from £18K - £70K+. Either in permanent roles or contracting.
    You won't be expected to know all that, you can get up to speed on all that in about a month of working, although every Computer Science graduate should be able to do basic SQL queries and be strong in at least 1 programming language. Testing and stuff would help but honestly i went into my current job not knowing how to unit test properly, use version control properly, use spring etc and picked it up pretty quickly it's not that hard.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    I have yet to come across graduates pursuing a career in web development that can demonstrate proficiency in MVC/MVVM frameworks, libraries, version control, server administration, databases and SQL, APIs, scripting, task runners, testing, documentation, responsive design across multiple platforms etc.
    Why would you teach students certain frameworks/libraries/APIs that some companies may use and others may not (at all). Wouldn't you prefer your new grads to know all about data structures and algorithms? A good understanding of the foundations of security? Operating systems? Networks?
    Or do you think they should be taught bootstrap for 9k a year?
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    (Original post by jacktrex)
    You won't be expected to know all that, you can get up to speed on all that in about a month of working, although every Computer Science graduate should be able to do basic SQL queries and be strong in at least 1 programming language. Testing and stuff would help but honestly i went into my current job not knowing how to unit test properly, use version control properly, use spring etc and picked it up pretty quickly it's not that hard.
    (Original post by Push_More_Button)
    Why would you teach students certain frameworks/libraries/APIs that some companies may use and others may not (at all). Wouldn't you prefer your new grads to know all about data structures and algorithms? A good understanding of the foundations of security? Operating systems? Networks?
    Or do you think they should be taught bootstrap for 9k a year?
    As far as the university and course is concerned, no you wouldn't be expected to know that. As far as the employer is concerned... that's a different matter entirely. Unfortunately, in my experience graduates can't often demonstrate proficiency in SQL and at least one language, nor development lifecycles and documentation - to the standards expected from the employer. As I indicated, it's up to the student to actively specialise in a particular set of skills and demonstrate this when applying for jobs.

    It was merely an example. Depending on their career path, students should make an effort to research junior/trainee/graduate level roles in their chosen field and what that entails.

    The market is incredibly tough and experience is key. Many employers (digital agencies for instance) aren't gonna care that you have a broad knowledge of everything, they'll be more concerned about what you have to offer in line with their business. Of course there are graduate schemes, and these are even more competitive.

    What I'm trying to get across is computer science doesn't typically prepare you in the real working world without relevant experience - unless you're lucky enough to land an offer on a graduate scheme (or equivalent).

    Be cautious and don't assume that a computer science degree will necessarily land you a job. The example experience I mentioned was probably overkill I guess, perhaps a relevant portfolio/personal projects on GitHub at least would definitely help give you the edge over other candidates and demonstrate your passion for the role.

    You'd be surprised how often development is outsourced to other countries due to the shortage of skills here.

    Market/employer expectations and academic expectations are completely different IMO. Students should be encouraged to research outside of academia, or the academic institution should do more to enable students.
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    I think there's a lot of myths in this thread. Computer Science graduate is highly likely to end up on a salary of 24-28k in their first year than anyone else.

    The issue is experience, I'm at Uni of Leeds and they're practically forcing us to attend employability lectures and career fairs and I'm just a first year :|. My dad was a programmer, he hasn't really touched on it for more than 10 years since becoming a maths teacher. Yet he has been scouted from various countries, especially China due to the experience he has.

    A lot of fellow students on my course are technically doing applied computer science due to having insufficient entry requirements. To be honest I think there's only about 10-15 people doing actual CompSci out of 120.

    The best thing to do is build your own website and create a portfolio and do keep your programs you've created as assignments. And lol to the person saying we have "basic understanding" with the for loops... We are way way way past that!
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    (Original post by AJFShaz)
    I think there's a lot of myths in this thread. Computer Science graduate is highly likely to end up on a salary of 24-28k in their first year than anyone else.

    The issue is experience, I'm at Uni of Leeds and they're practically forcing us to attend employability lectures and career fairs and I'm just a first year :|. My dad was a programmer, he hasn't really touched on it for more than 10 years since becoming a maths teacher. Yet he has been scouted from various countries, especially China due to the experience he has.

    A lot of fellow students on my course are technically doing applied computer science due to having insufficient entry requirements. To be honest I think there's only about 10-15 people doing actual CompSci out of 120.

    The best thing to do is build your own website and create a portfolio and do keep your programs you've created as assignments. And lol to the person saying we have "basic understanding" with the for loops... We are way way way past that!
    I concur. When I was managing two new developers, each had a LinkedIn profile and a personal site showcasing their work along with a GitHub profile with various personal projects. We needed an additional two developers (for Android and iOS) as well, they used their experiences at university to show their enthusiasm and produced some impressive tools during their studies. Their grades or the fact they even had a degree was only very briefly covered - we were more interested in their passion and experiences. This is what set them apart from other candidates who were under the assumption that a 2:1 or whatever in their degree was enough to warrant an offer of employment, without any practical experience.

    The way CVs are constructed is also very important. Not many recent graduates are familiar with how recruitment agencies work nor their tactics at filtering CVs. The majority of CVs I have helped for friends and relatives usually gets them to the interview stage.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    I concur. When I was managing two new developers, each had a LinkedIn profile and a personal site showcasing their work along with a GitHub profile with various personal projects. We needed an additional two developers (for Android and iOS) as well, they used their experiences at university to show their enthusiasm and produced some impressive tools during their studies. Their grades or the fact they even had a degree was only very briefly covered - we were more interested in their passion and experiences. This is what set them apart from other candidates who were under the assumption that a 2:1 or whatever in their degree was enough to warrant an offer of employment, without any practical experience.
    One of THE biggest misconceptions on this site that keeps getting regurgitated by 17 year old league table worshippers.


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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    One of THE biggest misconceptions on this site that keeps getting regurgitated by 17 year old league table worshippers.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

    The way CVs are constructed is also very important. Not many recent graduates are familiar with how recruitment agencies work nor their tactics at filtering CVs. The majority of CVs I have helped for friends and relatives usually gets them to the interview stage.
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    (Original post by Final Fantasy)
    Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

    The way CVs are constructed is also very important. Not many recent graduates are familiar with how recruitment agencies work nor their tactics at filtering CVs. The majority of CVs I have helped for friends and relatives usually gets them to the interview stage.
    I agree!!!! It annoys me how people make blanket statements about job prospects, even on a micro level between different degrees but fail to specify which job/industry. Or to even acknowledge that it comes down to much more than a degree in X from Y university.

    Yep, most graduates/students are clueless about how to actually tailor CVs to specific jobs. It's a failure on the inaccurate careers advice (both at secondary school and at uni) that they've been spoonfed.
 
 
 
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