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What percentage of blame, if at all any, rests with the victim during rape? Watch

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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Interesting. I assume your position would be the same in a scenario where a billionaire goes for a walk inside a shanty town with cash dripping outside his pocket without any bodyguards?
    While I sort of understand what you are getting at, it is a false comparison: rape cannot be compared to mugging. Even in that instance, people who choose to commit crimes are always responsible for the crime taking place, therefore it follows self control is a neccessary pre-requisite for the prevention of crimes.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    I really hate this judgement its total BS. 99.99% of men already know not to rape, they dont need to be taught it.

    And to those who will rape teaching its wrong isnt going to stop them.

    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    Rape is the only crime where advising people on how to minimize the chance of it happening is dismissed as 'victim blaming'.
    This is true. In an ideal world women and men can wear what they like, go where they like, see who they like, stagger around drunk out thier gourd and be fine. But we dont live in an ideal world. Whilst i would never blame the victim the same as avoiding getting mugged you can take precautions. THat being said getting raped by a stranger is surpassed by being raped by someone you know.
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    This seems outrageous. Is there any justification for putting some blame on rape victim or indeed any circumstances where a rape victim is partly to blame?
    There are two considerations. The first is that, of course, the victim is never fundamentally to blame for being raped.

    What would you say if a 17 year old boy had been to a buck's night, and in the horseplay and hijinks, he drank a huge amount and his friends stripped off his clothes, so that he was completely drunk and confused, wandering the streets in his underwear. Imagine then that a group of horny gay thugs takes a fancy to this lad and rape him. Would anyone say that it was his fault for drinking too much or being scantily clad? (Interestingly enough, I have no doubt some feminists would blame the lad, and have no problems if there were alcohol and safety education to teach boys how to keep themselves safe)

    The second consideration is one not of blame but of safety. This merely involves educating people about safety when they are out drinking, about looking after their friends, and so on. This is not victim blaming any more than it is victim blaming to educate cyclists to wear a helmet
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    That is a ****ing outrageous comment, as if most men are rapists just waiting for a trigger. That is deeply offensive, sexist, misandrist crap.

    And it seems like you would rather more women were raped, than concede any education about women making themselves more safe when they go out. That is an incredibly cynical, evil, point of view that is essentially trading more rape in exchange for your own feeling of sanctimonious self-righteousness. Would you call it victim-blaming for cyclists to be educated to wear a helmet and to keep safe in traffic, even though it might not be their fault if they are hit?

    No wonder feminism is going backwards compared to where it was 20 years ago
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    Funny the amount of people here who think rape can be avoided by going out with friends and not going down dark alleys.
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    No blame ever rests with the victim.


    That doesn't mean there aren't things victims can do to protect themselves. Blame is separate to preventative measures. I know people will say nobody should have to take them, and I agree. But the harsh reality is the world we live in isn't perfect, and victims can try some preventatives. Not taking them is up to them, but you can't blame them if they don't take them. I personally would rather not get raped, so would take them. From my personal perspective, that includes keeping an eye on my drink so it doesn't get spiked. I shouldn't have to do it, but I prefer to. If I forget one time and the worst happens or something happens outside of my control, nobody can place any blame on me.


    Sick of all the examples in this thread that basically amount to 'Hurrr But What If This Completely Unrelated Crime Happened? WHAT DEN?'
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    (Original post by Viva Emptiness)
    Funny the amount of people here who think rape can be avoided by going out with friends and not going down dark alleys.
    I don't think anyone is saying all rapes could be avoided, but is it wrong to educate men and women about how to (to the best of their ability) stay safe when they are out drinking?

    It seems conceited to assert that because only the rapist is to blame, therefore we will not make any attempt to keep men and women safe from certain situations.

    I also resent the claim of soairse that men need to be taught not to rape, that is outrageous
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I don't think anyone is saying all rapes could be avoided, but is it wrong to educate men and women about how to (to the best of their ability) stay safe when they are out drinking?

    It seems conceited to assert that because only the rapist is to blame, therefore we will not make any attempt to keep men and women safe from certain situations.

    I also resent the claim of soairse that men need to be taught not to rape, that is outrageous
    I don't really think I'm in the right position to be debating this at the moment, I kind of regret commenting but I agree with you on the "teaching men not to rape" thing. Everyone knows it's wrong. Some people just don't care.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)

    I also resent the claim of soairse that men need to be taught not to rape, that is outrageous
    I was an OK kid in school but if I had to do an Citizenship style lesson on that I'd have kicked up a massive fuss about it and made sure everyone else did too. I cannot believe that humanity in general has reached a stage where it's knowledge of right and wrong is so skewed that we feel the need to preach it to teenage children. I can't believe this because it hasn't. 99% of men will never even get anywhere near the line where rape and consent begin to blur.
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I was an OK kid in school but if I had to do an Citizenship style lesson on that I'd have kicked up a massive fuss about it and made sure everyone else did too. I cannot believe that humanity in general has reached a stage where it's knowledge of right and wrong is so skewed that we feel the need to preach it to teenage children. I can't believe this because it hasn't. 99% of men will never even get anywhere near the line where rape and consent begin to blur.
    I take a slightly different view. I would certainly say that 99%, perhaps even 99.9% of men, will never rape. And it's highly offensive to suggest boys need to be "taught not to rape". On a completely unrelated subject, maybe girls should be taught to take the pill so they don't have to many abortions? See how easy it is to be offensive? (not directing this at you, it's at the thread)

    I do think there are situations where consent can be a bit blurry, but these are situations common to growing up. For example, a 17 year old boy and girl get tremendously drunk and have sex consensually. The next morning the girl can't remember what happened and regrets it. Such things are exceedingly common, and it's totally wrong to purport to push that kind of situation into the rape area
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    (Original post by Viva Emptiness)
    I don't really think I'm in the right position to be debating this at the moment, I kind of regret commenting but I agree with you on the "teaching men not to rape" thing. Everyone knows it's wrong. Some people just don't care.
    I take your point entirely, absolutely. Sorry for my earlier comment
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    No blame should be put on the victim.
    However you can reduce your odds of getting raped. Encouraging women to do so should not be taken as in any way condemning women, but accepting that we live in an unpleasant world.
    So, what are you saying? Boys will be boys?

    I think teaching your sons not to be rapists would be a pretty good start.
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    (Original post by Slainery)
    So, what are you saying? Boys will be boys?

    I think teaching your sons not to be rapists would be a pretty good start.
    Firstly, women rape as well. And how does one teach one's "sons not to be rapists"? I do believe people know that rape is wrong and that they should not be a rapist, just the same as people know not to be murderers, or just criminals in general.

    Growing up, people realise what is wrong and what is right, there is no need to "teach your sons not to be rapists".
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    A man has 100% control over his penis.
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    (Original post by This Is Matt)
    Whilst I agree there should not be an attitude claiming women deserve to be raped or encouragement to force victims to blame themself, there should be an acceptance around acting in a certain way reduces your chances of getting raped.
    Doubt it mate. Following that logic, women in Muslim-majority countries never ever experience rape, because they don't go out drinking and are always totally covered.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I take a slightly different view. I would certainly say that 99%, perhaps even 99.9% of men, will never rape. And it's highly offensive to suggest boys need to be "taught not to rape". On a completely unrelated subject, maybe girls should be taught to take the pill so they don't have to many abortions? See how easy it is to be offensive? (not directing this at you, it's at the thread)

    I do think there are situations where consent can be a bit blurry, but these are situations common to growing up. For example, a 17 year old boy and girl get tremendously drunk and have sex consensually. The next morning the girl can't remember what happened and regrets it. Such things are exceedingly common, and it's totally wrong to purport to push that kind of situation into the rape area
    I studied the lines during 1st year of my Law degree and actually the whole 'I was drunk and I regretted it' is quite removed from the line. If I remember correctly for intoxication to be of any use in the case it must be at such a high level that consent could not be given (someone correct me if I'm a bit off, I don't have the energy to look it up right now) Normally when it's reached this stage a girls head is in the sink and in no fit state to go anywhere.
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    (Original post by EatAndRevise)
    Firstly, women rape as well. And how does one teach one's "sons not to be rapists"? I do believe people know that rape is wrong and that they should not be a rapist, just the same as people know not to be murderers, or just criminals in general.

    Growing up, people realise what is wrong and what is right, there is no need to "teach your sons not to be rapists".
    Er, better sex ed lessons? Where literally just a sentence along the lines of "if someone looks really uncomfortable with that thing you're doing / if someone isn't actively consenting to having sex with you, maybe take a minute to stop and think about what you're doing" would suffice?
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    (Original post by Катя)
    Er, better sex ed lessons? Where literally just a sentence along the lines of "if someone looks really uncomfortable with that thing you're doing / if someone isn't actively consenting to having sex with you, maybe take a minute to stop and think about what you're doing" would suffice?
    That is already being taught.
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    (Original post by EatAndRevise)
    Firstly, women rape as well. And how does one teach one's "sons not to be rapists"? I do believe people know that rape is wrong and that they should not be a rapist, just the same as people know not to be murderers, or just criminals in general. Growing up, people realise what is wrong and what is right, there is no need to "teach your sons not to be rapists".
    Yes, I know women rape as well, thanks.

    You teach your sons respect towards women, even though history and media actively work against it. I would start by educating them about misogyny, the difference between pornography and reality and how not to treat women like a bag of warm flesh.

    Also, how are people supposed to change/grow up/realise what is wrong and what is right if nobody is there to actually tell them what what is wrong and what is right?

    Some people just don't put murder, criminality and/or rape on the same level either. People know not to be murderers because of its heavy social and judicial consequences; it's much more black and white than rape.

    As for the comment I quoted, it was saying that women should adjust their behaviour in order not to be raped. So the whole statement felt like a big shrug to me and didn't question rape culture in any way.
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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I studied the lines during 1st year of my Law degree and actually the whole 'I was drunk and I regretted it' is quite removed from the line. If I remember correctly for intoxication to be of any use in the case it must be at such a high level that consent could not be given (someone correct me if I'm a bit off, I don't have the energy to look it up right now) Normally when it's reached this stage a girls head is in the sink and in no fit state to go anywhere.
    I think you're referring to the case R v Bree. The guy was convicted of raping the girl, when effectively she couldn't remember anything (her case was that she wouldn't have consented if she had been sober), and his contention was that it was consensual. The trial judge scandalously directed the jury that if she was drunk she could not consent.

    Only in the Court of Appeal was this miscarriage of justice overturned, and the justices ruled that a drunk person can consent to sex, and as you say; only if they are essentially paralytic and unresponsive would they be considered unable to render consent.

    It is, however, true to say that there are cases the police press as a case of rape where the "victim" isn't sure of whether they were raped or not, they themselves are not even saying they were in a definiteway
 
 
 
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