Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    The EU is still the worlds largest trading bloc. There are of course concerns about the EU financially but when lord hills reforms go through, things should improve. Juncker and Tusk have track records of improving failing economies. TTIP alone when it comes through should cover the cost if the EU to the uk tax payer. People saying that the EU limits our free trade are either ignorant or liars - we have massively increased trade with indus and china in recent years - as has Germany.
    You're pro-TTIP as well?
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    Ed Balls - Lab
    Harriet Harperson - Lab
    Ed Milibean - Lab
    Tristram Hunt - Lab
    Liz Truss - Tory
    Tim Farron. - Lib Dem
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    You're pro-TTIP as well?
    TTIP is a step in the right direction simply because of how overregulated the European countries are, however it is far from getting us to true free trade.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    TTIP is a step in the right direction simply because of how overregulated the European countries are, however it is far from getting us to true free trade.
    TTIP is not a free trade agreement, it's a corporate power grab. Corporate interests have far too much influence as it is, the last thing we want to be doing is giving them even more.

    Under this agreement, companies could sue a country if a government policy or law causes loss of profits. e.g. If an application for mining in a national park is blocked, the company could sue for the profits they claim they would have been able to make.
    There was a mine in Costa Rica where that happened due to a similar trade agreement, and a fracking company in Canada is involved in a similar case I think. So this is not just a conspiracy theory.

    And we certainly don't want to be reducing regulations, which seems to be another likely consequence of TTIP. This "overregulation" you speak includes environmental and food safety regulation.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I beg of anyone here, do not let Milliband become the new PM... Just look at him for crying out loud.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    What's the difference between that and ukip MEPs sitting in the European Parliament?
    We elected UKIP. We are the ones showing the EU contempt.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    You're pro-TTIP as well?
    I'm a liberal, free trade is what we believe in!

    I think TTIP is to the Left wing what dominant migrants are to the right wing, on that they get a phenomenon that will play well to their core voters, twist it around to suit their agenda and say "look we are the ONLY ones addressing this issue".

    I think some of the fears are manifestly absurd. Can you really see any French government let US companies run their public services, or a British one let the NHS be fully privatised ( electoral suicide).

    In cant car it still has yet to be put through, I think we should wait and see before jumping to conclusions (that usually suit our ideological bias)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by democracyforum)
    We elected UKIP. We are the ones showing the EU contempt.
    I don't follow. They elected the SNP, they are the ones showing the UK contempt.

    I'm seeing double standards here my friend.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    I'm a liberal, free trade is what we believe in!

    I think TTIP is to the Left wing what dominant migrants are to the right wing, on that they get a phenomenon that will play well to their core voters, twist it around to suit their agenda and say "look we are the ONLY ones addressing this issue".

    I think some of the fears are manifestly absurd. Can you really see any French government let US companies run their public services, or a British one let the NHS be fully privatised ( electoral suicide).

    In cant car it still has yet to be put through, I think we should wait and see before jumping to conclusions (that usually suit our ideological bias)
    Which fears are "absurd" exactly?

    The fact that a lot of negotiations are done in secret (and away from democratic accountability) suggests they have something to hide.

    And similar trade agreements have happened in other countries, and have resulted in companies suing for loss of profit, which is what TTIP opponents are saying could happen here. I've read of a mine in Costa Rica and a fracking application in Canada which have had this outcome due to a similar agreement.

    There are good reasons to take a skeptical and cautious approach to TTIP instead of welcoming it with open arms.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    Which fears are "absurd" exactly?

    The fact that a lot of negotiations are done in secret (and away from democratic accountability) suggests they have something to hide.
    This really isn't that bad- this is yo ensure that financial speculators ie people like Soros can't am advantage over the government before treaties are even signed.

    And similar trade agreements have happened in other countries, and have resulted in companies suing for loss of profit, which is what TTIP opponents are saying could happen here. I've read of a mine in Costa Rica and a fracking application in Canada which have had this outcome due to a similar agreement.

    There are good reasons to take a skeptical and cautious approach to TTIP instead of welcoming it with open arms.
    Oh I'm skeptical, bit I'm more of an optimist to be honest. Also the people arguing against it are using the same arguments as Tony Benn did against Britain in the EEC, something which I think has been hugely beneficial.

    In any case, we will have to see, but let's not always assume the worst!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    I don't follow. They elected the SNP, they are the ones showing the UK contempt.

    I'm seeing double standards here my friend.
    They got a referendum.

    We didn't.

    That's the double standard.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    cameron
    farge
    michael gove-suprised no one mentioned this guy...
    nick clegg
    theresa may
    cameron...
    anyone else just loling as they read through this all
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by democracyforum)
    They got a referendum.

    We didn't.

    That's the double standard.
    Well we did in the 70s...

    Besides whats the point? Are you suddenly going to put up an EU flag if people vote to stay in? No.

    The euro sceptics should just favour outright withdrawal.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RFowler)
    TTIP is not a free trade agreement, it's a corporate power grab. Corporate interests have far too much influence as it is, the last thing we want to be doing is giving them even more.
    Corporate interests do have a lot of influence over governments but I'd argue that much of this is a result of regulation, the monetary policies of central banks and massive state intervention in the economy. Regulation is often a barrier to entry for competitors in the market which can only increase the power and influence of the biggest corporations at the expense of small or newer businesses.

    (Original post by RFowler)
    Under this agreement, companies could sue a country if a government policy or law causes loss of profits. e.g. If an application for mining in a national park is blocked, the company could sue for the profits they claim they would have been able to make.
    There was a mine in Costa Rica where that happened due to a similar trade agreement, and a fracking company in Canada is involved in a similar case I think. So this is not just a conspiracy theory.
    Yes, I know about ISDS in the TTIP. In my opinion more people suing the government is a great thing because much of what the state does is reprehensible and contary to human freedom.

    (Original post by RFowler)
    And we certainly don't want to be reducing regulations, which seems to be another likely consequence of TTIP. This "overregulation" you speak includes environmental and food safety regulation.
    That sounds great. The European food market is one of the most overregulated in the Western world and any reduction in the phenomenon of socialistic environmentalism will be beneficial.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Rees Mogg - canvassing council estate neighourhoods in his bentley.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Gordon Brown - is he still an MP ? why doesn't he go to the house of commons ? Out of shame ?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Dianne Abbot - vile, racist woman
    Harriet Harman - just plain stupid.
    Matthew Hancock - Patronising, smug, up-his-arse, no-nothing, moron.
    Chuka Umuna - No substance, no conviction, arse
    Tristram Hunt - Second rate historian, third rate politician, thoroughly unpleasant.
    Vince Cable - He is a tw** plain and simple.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Ed Miliband
    Ed Balls
    Harriet Harman
    Diane Abbot
    Natalie Bennett
    Dennis Skinner

    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Rees Mogg - canvassing council estate neighourhoods in his bentley.
    It was a Merc - not a Bentley
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Sinn Fein's MP's as they don't bother to even take their seats. Complete waste of 5 seats as these seats could be used to actually make a meaningful contribution towards the country.
 
 
 
Poll
“Yanny” or “Laurel”
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.