Feminism and Islamic culture Watch

Bombay-Tough-Guy
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#141
(Original post by daisychain_)
:lolwut: :sigh:

I'm guessing you didn't read any of what I posted then. No where does it say that they are beaten black and blue, its nothing more than a light tap, for very severe circumstances.
and nowhere did i say" black and blue" - do you even read posts ?

and do you read the quran - it clearly says men can beat you, muslim women. you cant change that, it was written before your time
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Midlander
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(Original post by daisychain_)
They are a few of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. One must intend to wear one for the sake of Allah if they're a Muslim, not because they're forced to. Of course, parents have to bring up their children to become Muslims so they might be strongly encouraged to wear one. But generally if young girls have grown up around women wearing hijabs/religious environment, they wear them because they want to wear them.
Brainwashing passed from generation to generation. Children not allowed to think for themselves, people threatened with punishment for renouncing a faith they were forced into, etc etc. A truly tolerant higher power would not object to someone choosing to no longer worship them-none of the Abrahamic faiths score well on this point.
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string56
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(Original post by daisychain_)
Its not a "beating".

Quran is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (Quran: An-Nisaa 34-35)

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

Source:
http://www.islamicfinder.org/articles/article.php?id=307
Sister be careful about what you say of Muhammad (pbuh) and where you're treading on (pertaining to beat) there are instances where the prophet did some things that Christians will make look bad so before they post it I'm quickly post it. Is best you avoid these islamphobes.

Aisha narrates, "He (Muhammad) struck me on the chest which caused me pain."" Sahih Muslim 4:2127

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Sahih Muslim 9:3506 shows that Aisha's father Abu Bakr hit her, and Umar hit his daughter Hafsa, both right in front of Muhammad, and Muhammad responded by laughing.

"Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Khadija when you asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger (mav peace be upon him) laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) then got up went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) which he does not possess."
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AB2
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#144
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#144
(Original post by redferry)
Do you not feel that some people are pressured into it though?

I know that a couple of my Muslim friends felt they were, or don't wear it any !ore except around their parents, because it is expected of them.

Just interested in your opinion
Nope I don't feel pressured, yh some muslim girls feel that way..but not me I guess everyone is different. You only have to wear a hijab outside so other men don't see you hair otherwise don't need to wear it at home. Wearing the hijab for me is a beautiful aspect, it represents me and tbh If I went outside without it I would technically feel naked.
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Midlander
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#145
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(Original post by string56)
Sister be careful about what you say of Muhammad (pbuh) and where you're treading on (pertaining to beat) there are instances where the prophet did some things that Christians will make look bad so before they post it I'm quickly post it. Is best you avoid these islamphobes.

Aisha narrates, "He (Muhammad) struck me on the chest which caused me pain."" Sahih Muslim 4:2127

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Sahih Muslim 9:3506 shows that Aisha's father Abu Bakr hit her, and Umar hit his daughter Hafsa, both right in front of Muhammad, and Muhammad responded by laughing.

"Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) came and sought permission to see Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Khadija when you asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah's Messenger (mav peace be upon him) laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) then got up went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) which he does not possess."
What is your justification for this?


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LivngForSummer
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#146
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#146
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AB2
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#147
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#147
(Original post by Midlander)
Ah OK so if you walked around Mosul or Raqqa or Jeddah without one it would be accepted?


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Firstly I won't be walking around in those areas because they are controlled by ISIS who are extremists and portraying the wrong image of Islam and Muslims overall. Secondly, nope it wouldn't be...and I wouldn't go around without a hijab myself because I always wear it, so without it I technically feel naked.
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4 3
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#148
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#148
Has anyone noticed those girls who wear a hijab but also wear tight leggings, low cut tops and thongs? lol
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Midlander
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#149
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#149
(Original post by AB2)
Firstly I won't be walking around in those areas because they are controlled by ISIS who are extremists and portraying the wrong image of Islam and Muslims overall. Secondly, nope it wouldn't be...and I wouldn't go around without a hijab myself because I always wear it, so without it I technically feel naked.
Jeddah is in Saudi.


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dumb cabbage
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#150
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#150
(Original post by 4 3)
Has anyone noticed those girls who wear a hijab but also wear tight leggings, low cut tops and thongs? lol
Haha lol haha lol, no I don't wear low cut tops or thongs and if I wear leggings it's covered by a long dress, so before you assume all hijabis wear that get your facts right mate


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TurboCretin
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#151
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#151
(Original post by daisychain_)
Its not a "beating".

Quran is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (Quran: An-Nisaa 34-35)

It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

Source:
http://www.islamicfinder.org/articles/article.php?id=307
Not a beating? That's odd - I could swear it says 'beat them' where it says 'beat them'.
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daisychain_
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#152
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#152
(Original post by Midlander)
Brainwashing passed from generation to generation. Children not allowed to think for themselves, people threatened with punishment for renouncing a faith they were forced into, etc etc. A truly tolerant higher power would not object to someone choosing to no longer worship them-none of the Abrahamic faiths score well on this point.
I don't believe its brainwashing. Its actively encouraging your children to do what's best them for (be a Muslim). Parents have to do all they can to keep their children on the straight and narrow, they do it because they care for their children, naturally. You can't make someone have faith, you can only help them.




(Original post by TurboCretin)
Not a beating? That's odd - I could swear it says 'beat them' where it says 'beat them'.
Read beyond the first paragraph.
It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.
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TurboCretin
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#153
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#153
(Original post by daisychain_)
I don't believe its brainwashing. Its actively encouraging your children to do what's best them for (be a Muslim). Parents have to do all they can to keep their children on the straight and narrow, they do it because they care for their children, naturally. You can't make someone have faith, you can only help them.






Read beyond the first paragraph.
It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.
You think it's alright for people to go around giving each other 'light taps' to express their displeasure?

Besides, what's the point? It's not an effective punishment at that point, and neither is it an effective way of communicating.
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AB2
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#154
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#154
(Original post by Midlander)
Jeddah is in Saudi.


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and you point is? Well obviously you have to wear a hijab and an abbayah in Saudi because its a Muslim country.
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daisychain_
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#155
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(Original post by TurboCretin)
You think it's alright for people to go around giving each other 'light taps' to express their displeasure?

Besides, what's the point? It's not an effective punishment at that point, and neither is it an effective way of communicating.
If you carry on reading, it states that this is most suited to more serious situations when other options haven't worked. So yes I think it is okay, in order to save a marriage.
I'm not in a position to answer that, I suggest you ask someone more knowledgeable on the matter.
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TurboCretin
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#156
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(Original post by daisychain_)
If you carry on reading, it states that this is most suited to more serious situations when other options haven't worked. So yes I think it is okay, in order to save a marriage.
I'm not in a position to answer that, I suggest you ask someone more knowledgeable on the matter.
Let's set the scene: a disagreement has erupted in the marriage. All attempts at diplomacy have failed as husband and wife fail to find any common ground. Talk was even afoot of separation. But lo! The husband administers a light tap to his wife, rendering her placid once more, and all was resolved.

Does that sound realistic to you?

I've got to be honest, 'beat' seems a more plausible reading to me of the term than 'light tap'. If it's supposed to be the sanction of last resort, a light tap is pointless. And it doesn't escape the fact that it is battery.
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RandZul'Zorander
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#157
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To answer the original post, the reason feminism can and sometimes is reconciled with 'islamic culture' is that just like 'christian culture' such an encompassing term can mean different things to different people. There are many factions in Islam and they treat women differently in each. There is also the issue of not wanting to further take agency from muslim women. If they are aware of the issues surrounding islam and their own circumstances should they not also have their free choice of staying/complying with their religious beliefs? It's very similar to christian fundamentalists. Its true that many of the practices can (and often do) actively oppress women but they aren't inherently oppressive. On the alternative, there are feminists who strongly disagree with Islam and much of the culture referred to (mostly radical feminists).
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Midlander
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#158
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#158
(Original post by AB2)
and you point is? Well obviously you have to wear a hijab and an abbayah in Saudi because its a Muslim country.
My point is you would be forced and a man wouldn't.


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Midlander
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#159
(Original post by daisychain_)
I don't believe its brainwashing. Its actively encouraging your children to do what's best them for (be a Muslim). Parents have to do all they can to keep their children on the straight and narrow, they do it because they care for their children, naturally. You can't make someone have faith, you can only help them.






Read beyond the first paragraph.
It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.
You aren't giving them the choice to make their own minds up so yes it is brainwashing.


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AB2
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(Original post by Midlander)
My point is you would be forced and a man wouldn't.


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I'M NOT FORCED THOUGH. And when did men wear hijabs...
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