Rights of the father. Watch

41b
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#141
Report 4 years ago
#141
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Yes. That is correct, since she has Financial and Physical responsibility for the child.

Men are not required to pay or take any of the risk during Pregnancy, so their opinion is irrelevant.

If you are dumb enough to have sex without a condom and produce a baby then it is your fault.
To classify pregnancy as physical responsibility is disingenuous. Pregnancy is more like a service being performed, with some elements of responsibility that would also extend to the mother's own health and are so, in the sense of being responsibilities solely for the child, nullified.

Both parents have shared physical responsibility for the child (after the mother has performed her service) and both have financial responsibility.

I don't really understand how this is beyond you. It is a really simple concept. A woman can have an abortion and deprive the right of fatherhood without his consent or choice. A father should have the option of removing himself from the equation without her consent or choice. Both of their freedoms are preserved in this context. That is simple equality.
1
reply
James Milibanter
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#142
Report 4 years ago
#142
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
But a woman can choose to have sex and THEN be absolved of all responsibility.

The man can't.



Well thats a father's child that's getting aborted. It wouldn't exist without the father. So ye it does have something to do with him lol.
The man doesn't have to carry the child for 9 months and then shove it out in a mass of pain. So no it isn't to do with him. If he wanted a child that badly he could adopt or have a partner that also wants a child.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#143
Report 4 years ago
#143
(Original post by ChickenMadness)

Well thats a father's child that's getting aborted. It wouldn't exist without the father. So ye it does have something to do with him lol.
I am not talking about a Genetic link. I don't care about that during Pregnancy.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#144
Report 4 years ago
#144
(Original post by 41b)
Physical responsibility is an irrelevance. At most that is a service being performed, not a responsibility.
No, it is completely relevant. The woman takes the Physical and health risks of having a baby and has her vagina ripped open at the end of it. Not the male.
0
reply
41b
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#145
Report 4 years ago
#145
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
No, it is completely relevant. The woman takes the Physical and health risks of having a baby and has her vagina ripped open at the end of it. Not the male.
I've edited my post so please reply to the new one instead.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#146
Report 4 years ago
#146
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Yes. That is correct, since she has Financial and Physical responsibility for the child.

Men are not required to pay or take any of the risk during Pregnancy, so their opinion is irrelevant.

If you are dumb enough to have sex without a condom and produce a baby then it is your fault.
But the man also has financial responsibility for the child once it is born. And if the man were primary custodian would have physical responsibility too.

Equally women are not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing.

Condoms aren't 100% effective. Also what if the girl poked holes in the condom?
There was a case in USA of a woman giving a man a blowjob then keeping the sperm to impregnate herself with lol. The man had to pay child support.

Also the same argument can be used against women. If you were dumb enough to have sex you shouldn't be given any rights. Bit of a silly argument.


Pregnancy, childbirth, childrearing, paying for said child are all connected. Abortion eliminates all subsequent responsibilities.
The man should be able to eliminate his responsibilities too.

I don't understand why you're arguing so hard against that.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#147
Report 4 years ago
#147
(Original post by 41b)
To classify pregnancy as physical responsibility is disingenuous. Pregnancy is more like a service being performed, with some elements of responsibility that would also extend to the mother's own health and are so, in the sense of being responsibilities solely for the child, nullified.

Both parents have shared physical responsibility for the child (after the mother has performed her service) and both have financial responsibility.

I don't really understand how this is beyond you. It is a really simple concept. A woman can have an abortion and deprive the right of fatherhood without his consent or choice. A father should have the option of removing himself from the equation without her consent or choice. Both of their freedoms are preserved in this context. That is simple equality.
I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#148
Report 4 years ago
#148
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I am not talking about a Genetic link. I don't care about that during Pregnancy.
But it's relevant. Doesn't matter if you don't care about it.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#149
Report 4 years ago
#149
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
But the man also has financial responsibility for the child once it is born. And if the man were primary custodian would have physical responsibility too.

Equally women are not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing..
Sorry, but you do realise that Pregnancy is fairly dangerous? It is only because of significant medical intervention that death rates are fairly low.

Stop saying that a woman is not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy or childbirth. It is disgraceful.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#150
Report 4 years ago
#150
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.
Again it doesn't matter what you care about. You can't ignore facts just because you don't care about them
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#151
Report 4 years ago
#151
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
But it's relevant. Doesn't matter if you don't care about it.
WEll, it isn't relevant because as I said before, the man has no rights during Pregnancy.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#152
Report 4 years ago
#152
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Sorry, but you do realise that Pregnancy is fairly dangerous? It is only because of significant medical intervention that death rates are fairly low.

Stop saying that a woman is not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy or childbirth. It is disgraceful.
How is stating a fact disgraceful? An abortion prevents pregnancy
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#153
Report 4 years ago
#153
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
WEll, it isn't relevant because as I said before, the man has no rights during Pregnancy.
Which is what this whole debate is about :laugh:
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#154
Report 4 years ago
#154
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
How is stating a fact disgraceful? An abortion prevents pregnancy
You made no reference to Abortion. Anyway, it makes no difference,

So, then a man is not required to take any of the risk either if a woman has an abortion. It makes no difference either way.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#155
Report 4 years ago
#155
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
Which is what this whole debate is about :laugh:
And that is the way it should stay since he has no Financial or Physical responsibility during pregnancy.
0
reply
41b
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#156
Report 4 years ago
#156
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.
Alright.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

On the one hand you don't care what parents do after pregnancy. Presumably that would include letting the father relinquish his right to the child, and responsibilities, without penalty.

On the other hand you seem to be focused on pregnancy.

There seems to be some sort of conceptual disagreement you have based on this view you have about pregnancy. I'm not sure I follow it, but let's accept it for now.

So your view is rather that upon birth, both parents have the right to choose whether they want to take part in the child's life? And consequently, at that point, they should be able to make individual decisions without penalties?

That is entirely in line with what, I believe, ChickenMadness and I also believe. I am pro-life and I prefer a woman bears a child to term and upon birth the couple make a decision about how it is raised, or given to adoption.

However, I believe ChickenMadness' point is that abortion, as it is a single-party relinquishing of parental responsibility, ought to also include a counterparty right to relinquish responsibility.

Your point seems to be that pregnancy itself has some sort of cost. In that case there could be damages paid by the man for lost wages in the case he doesn't want to have the child but the woman does.

Having said that, the simple point that the woman has a get out of jail free card from pregnancy itself, while the man does not, is an issue of simple equality. If the man is made to pay restitituion for the service of the pregnancy, then it is still the case that he is being unequally penalised for the woman's choice.

If we have abortion, then we must have equal abortion for any type of consistency. In my view it'd be more sensible to have illegal abortion (after a very short initial period and a relinqiushment choice by the man in that period) and allow both parents to choose their participation upon the birth of the child.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#157
Report 4 years ago
#157
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
You made no reference to Abortion. Anyway, it makes no difference,

So, then a man is not required to take any of the risk either if a woman has an abortion. It makes no difference either way.
Yes I did in previous posts lol.

But if the woman doesn't decide to have an abortion. Then he is required to pay child support for the next 18 years. So yes it does make a difference what the woman decides to do.

(Original post by DorianGrayism)
And that is the way it should stay since he has no Financial or Physical responsibility during pregnancy.
Which is disagree with.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#158
Report 4 years ago
#158
(Original post by 41b)

However, I believe ChickenMadness' point is that abortion, as it is a single-party relinquishing of parental responsibility, ought to also include a counterparty right to relinquish responsibility.


.
Yes that is my point lol.

The woman has literally no responsibilities AT ALL.

She doesn't have to be pregnant, give birth, raise a child, pay for a child if she doesn't want to. But the man does have to do the latter whether he wants to or not.
0
reply
DorianGrayism
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#159
Report 4 years ago
#159
(Original post by ChickenMadness)
Yes I did in previous posts lol.

But if the woman doesn't decide to have an abortion. Then he is required to pay child support for the next 18 years. So yes it does make a difference what the woman decides to do.
I know. He had full control of the situation. Unfortunately, he decided to put his penis in.

(Original post by ChickenMadness)
Which is disagree with.
Well, till Men can have Financial and Physical respsibility during pregnancy, there isn't much I can do to help you.
0
reply
ChickenMadness
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#160
Report 4 years ago
#160
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
I know. He had full control of the situation. Unfortunately, he decided to put his penis in.



Well, till Men can have Financial and Physical respsibility during pregnancy, there isn't much I can do to help you.
Unless he was sexually assaulted. Which our current laws wouldn't take into account.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Why wouldn't you turn to teachers if you were being bullied?

They might tell my parents (16)
6.93%
They might tell the bully (25)
10.82%
I don't think they'd understand (39)
16.88%
It might lead to more bullying (80)
34.63%
There's nothing they could do (71)
30.74%

Watched Threads

View All