13 civilians - including women and children- slaughtered in Saudi -Arabia strikes Watch

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username883747
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#141
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#141
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Well for example the media here seems to be covering the Saudi raids as if they are attacking Al Queda (and several posters in this thread seem to be buying that line) whereas Stratfor, for example, poses a much more complex reality.
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/sa...-compete-yemen
I have not seen many stories like this, would you mind linking some articles?
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al_94
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(Original post by TheCynicalChild)
Not in this day and age. I would understand it back then in those days but society's different now.
It's in the Qur'an so you have to accept that in a country where Sharia law is implemented this is the punishment. Where is your evidence to show that this law is only to be implemented in the past but not now?

Surat An-Nūr (The Light)

24:2

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
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Aj12
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#143
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Well for example the media here seems to be covering the Saudi raids as if they are attacking Al Queda (and several posters in this thread seem to be buying that line) whereas Stratfor, for example, poses a much more complex reality.
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/sa...-compete-yemen

My main point is that when a corrupt, wicked dictatorship and self-serving aristocracy like the Saudi government engages in war, it isn't very likely that they are doing it on the side of decent folk and democratic values. The other recent place where they intervened, Bahrein, is a case in point - the Saudis acted there to crush protests for greater democracy.

It's depressing to see such a government being cheered on by alleged socialists or left-leaning people on TSR, they should know better.
Most of what I have read from the BBC. Economist, New York Times and CNN have all made clear that this is a fight by Saudi against an Iranian backed militia. Its all one big proxy conflict, little to do with a fight against al Qaeda. Every strongman in the region loves to present themselves as fighting against Islamic Terror, shame most of them just help create it.

I haven't really seen any one claim that this is being done for democratic values or to instill a liberal democracy. Frankly most of the accounts I've seen have shown a fear that this could spark off a regional war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Personally I think this is going to spread terrorism to Saudi Arabia and see a regeneration of al Qaeda, which thrives in chaotic countries.
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string56
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#144
(Original post by TheCynicalChild)
x.
So your wanna of those hadith cherry pickers, pick the bits you like, discard what you consider "bad/not reputable" hadith. Violent apostasy is punished in islam, virtually all if not most muslim countries have laws against it...
http://islamqa.info/en/811
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=huMu8ihDlVA


Islam is not compatible with morale and cultural relativism ( which is what your doing) by trying to contextualize and lock islam in to the 7th century, islam is above context and time and is valid for all times as a guide, the quran sanctions flogging for pre marital sex, that is a commandment from Allah (swt) valid for all times in all places. You can't just deny that and throw Allahs (swt) laws back in to the 7th century- its just as valid in the 21st century as it was back then. You said you understand how flogging was acceptable back then why not now- Allahs laws are timeless. Islam is timeless and serves as a guide for all times not just the days of muhammad.
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string56
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#145
(Original post by al_94)
It's in the Qur'an so you have to accept that in a country where Sharia law is implemented this is the punishment. Where is your evidence to show that this law is only to be implemented in the past but not now?

Surat An-Nūr (The Light)

24:2

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Exactly, cynical child thinks he's got the correct interpretation of islam right whilst every other muslim has got out wrong-an interpretation that trys to contextualize and lock islam (or parts if it "flogging/jihad" in the past implying its no longer relavant today.

(Original post by al_94)
Where is your evidence to show that this law is only to be implemented in the past but not now?
Good question.
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username883747
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#146
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#146
(Original post by Aj12)
Personally I think this is going to spread terrorism to Saudi Arabia and see a regeneration of al Qaeda, which thrives in chaotic countries.
This is possible and probable. With the rise of the Houthis we saw increased support for AQAP and if we see Ansar al-Sharia leaders being busted out of prision in the chaos things will look up for AQAP.

Lets not forget that with a global competition between ISIS and al-Qaida for the 'right' to lead the global Jihadi movement it is possible that between the two such a competition in Yemen would spell bad news for many.

I believe that the future of Yemen will be decided on the success of the ground invasion and the way they deal with the country and it's various factions.
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username1384880
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#147
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#147
I'm trying to figure out how the event that has been described in the OP has turned into a discussion about Hadiths.
I see the usual people here. Lol.
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uer23
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#148
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#148
Why the **** has a discussion on saudi arabia and houthis turned into homosexuality, ****ing islamophobes.
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goobypls
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#149
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#149
IT's the usual idiots time and time again that can turn a thread about innocent people being killed to a thread about Islam.

Same old pathetic users over and over again. I men this thread made me lose faith in humanity.....Again.

The fact that a certain user here doesn't seem to think killing women and children is immoral says it all.
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HassanD
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#150
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#150
(Original post by string56)
Sharia law is not something ambiguous there's no as hassan put it hard core sharia or liberal sharia

There's only a single interpretation (not mine or some scholars but Allahs and muhammads (pbuh) interpretation) of sharia formulated by the quran and hadith not by your westernized morality that is explicitly Clear both violent apostasy and homosexuality is a sin in islam worthy of punishment, this has been the case for centuries in the vast majority of the muslim world in all the schools of thought of both sunni islam and shia islam.

It is only now wwherethe muslim world is weak that the highly powerful and influential western world is trying to impose their morality ( that sanctions homosexuality) in the Islamic world. What your essentially saying is that muslim world for 14 centuries, the quran and hadith, the scholars, the schools of thought of both sunni and shia islam for 14 centuries have been misunderstood on the topic of homosexuality and you an insignificant tsr user with all due respect just happen to get islam (on its homosexuality Stance) right with your out of nowhere "I'm a qualified scholar" homosexuality is okay.

You essentially have a tough hill to climb if you think you can challenge the historical and correct interpretation that islam is against homosexuality and punishes it both inthis world and the next. you do acknowledge this, right?- that homosexuality has historically been condemned and punished in islam in the vast majority of the muslim world for time?


Do you have any evidence backing your claim that islam is okay with homosexuality? Go to mecca, go to egypt go to al azhar, go to the ISOC thread and you'll see that homosexuality is a sin in islam and condemened, the only ambiguity is the punishment i.e. prison,exile, execution.

You should really go to the ISOC thread you'll see that islam is not okay with homosexuality. Inshallah you don't lose faith in islam and sorry if i assumed you were ashamed of islam.

http://islamqa.info/en/811
http://islamqa.info/en/38622
Umm, did you read my full post? I clearly stated it was a sin. However being homosexual isn't a sin itself, the sins occur when you act upon it, e.g. your desires.
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TheCynicalChild
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#151
(Original post by al_94)
It's in the Qur'an so you have to accept that in a country where Sharia law is implemented this is the punishment. Where is your evidence to show that this law is only to be implemented in the past but not now?

Surat An-Nūr (The Light)

24:2

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Understanding isn't evidence, stop taking my opinion as gospel. My reason for that statement was that's what pretty much every culture did in the old days, hence being understandable.

(Original post by string56)
Exactly, cynical child thinks he's got the correct interpretation of islam right whilst every other muslim has got out wrong-an interpretation that trys to contextualize and lock islam (or parts if it "flogging/jihad" in the past implying its no longer relavant today.


Good question.
First of all, I'm a girl. Thanks for the uneducated assumption, it says a lot.

Second, as I said before, stop taking my opinions as gospel. It's my opinion and interpretation and as I've said laws are subjective, that automatically gives you freedom of your opinion. Never did I even imply that other Muslims are wrong, I was just asked my opinion and gave it-so sue me. The exact point of my entire argument is that Islam can be adaptable-as can all other religions. Times have changed, society has changed, people have changed, why can't religion adapt to that? If anything, YOU'RE the one 'locking' Islam in the past.
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TheCynicalChild
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#152
(Original post by young_guns)
That's a darn fine comment, TCC. Duly gemmed.

I really hope it's the more sophisticated and nuanced adherents of Islam like you who will be its future. I have to believe that's the case because that seems to be the trajectory of all religions (despite the admitted slow progress); toward more tolerance, more understanding, less prejudice.
Thanks

There are actually a lot of young Muslims my age that think this way but they just aren't very vocal about it.
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al_94
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#153
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#153
(Original post by TheCynicalChild)
Understanding isn't evidence, stop taking my opinion as gospel. My reason for that statement was that's what pretty much every culture did in the old days, hence being understandable.
So you accept the punishments are valid but you just don't understand them is that what you're saying?
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TheCynicalChild
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#154
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#154
(Original post by al_94)
So you accept the punishments are valid but you just don't understand them is that what you're saying?
Where on earth did you get that from?

I understand why people in those days ​gave those punishments-doesn't mean I accept them.
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al_94
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(Original post by TheCynicalChild)
Where on earth did you get that from?

I understand why people in those days ​gave those punishments-doesn't mean I accept them.
You say people gave those punishments but it's in the Qur'an so that means God gave them. So what is the punishment for fornication in Islam in your view?
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TheCynicalChild
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(Original post by al_94)
You say people gave those punishments but it's in the Qur'an so that means God gave them. So what is the punishment for fornication in Islam in your view?
God didn't actually carry them out himself though like he did in the story of Lut. In my view, let God deal with it. If it's a sin and you believe in Islam and God, then come The Great Day of Reckoning, God will take care of you and send you on the next train to Hell. But that's God's place, not other humans'.
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#157
(Original post by PopaPork)
someone did hence the polite reminder this morning
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(Original post by PopaPork)
No being gay my hatred of islam and those that choose to follow it is anything but irrational

However I'd like to know if you'd accuse a black person who hated the BNP and those that choose to follow them of being 'irrational'?
I'm mainly gay; well I identify as bisexual but I lean far more towards homosexuality than heterosexuality. I'm only romantically attracted to females.
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PopaPork
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#158
(Original post by XcitingStuart)
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I'm mainly gay; well I identify as bisexual but I lean far more towards homosexuality than heterosexuality. I'm only romantically attracted to females.
The I would hope you's understand my issues with islam
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Aussiekiwi
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#159
(Original post by TheCynicalChild)
Not in this day and age. I would understand it back then in those days but society's different now.





If there was a single explicit interpretation of Islamic statute, there wouldn't be any debate but there's a hell of a lot of debate and different schools of thought-which debunks your statement.

Again, what punishment is there for apostasy? Because I've searched for one and there isn't one anywhere in the Quran or reputable Hadiths. I've seen sayings regarding people at the time who under a guise accepted Islam for malicious and harmful purposes that threatened the community of Muslims but that doesn't apply to people in this day and age who harbour no malice towards Islam or Muslims and simply just don't agree. The main thing God stresses is that humans have free will-that is the choice to do whatever we want.

Insignificant TSR user? The whole point of debate is to discuss and share views and that's exactly what I'm doing. This is my opinion regardless of whether you like it and accept it, or not. I never said I was ever significant and resorting to petty insults like that isn't gaining you favour.

Your use of 'Western' a lot seems to suggest that Muslims are at odds with 'The West', and that you have some sort of agenda against it. I regard myself as a European through and through (born, raised, educated) and that has never conflicted with my religion. The media constantly tells me Islam is violent and destructive-do I take that to heart? No, because I am and know Muslims that are nothing like that. If I was in a Muslim country (which btw are sometimes much worse and much more hypocritical than 'The West') I know I most likely wouldn't be allowed to think freely for myself. It's a sad truth, and not one that I'm making up since I have been to plenty of Muslim countries. The Muslim world is weak because we don't allow this kind of critical freedom of thought anymore-remember the times of Avicenna? He criticised and speculated on issues such as metaphysics and went on to become a highly regarded philosopher, and that's when the Muslim world was at it's strongest. I never claimed or acted like I was a qualified scholar, I just gave my opinions. Also a point noting on, this glorious Muslim world you're speaking of? The Ottoman Empire ended at a time when it had turned it's back on tolerance and acceptance of other faiths, just saying.

I'm not challenging THE historical or 'correct' interpretation. I study Law and one of the first things I learned was that statutory interpretation is very subjective. What evidence do you have that your interpretation is the correct one? Have you taken context into account? People rarely do. If context was taken into account people would realise that many 'laws' are adaptable and not stuck in stone. Take Jihad for example. Back in the old days, Jihad was encouraged because there was actually an enemy for the Muslims (enemy as in legit wanted to kill them because of their beliefs), but 'Jihad' nowadays? Where's the enemy? Who wants these people dead? The innocent civilians and people they kill that have no idea why they're dying in such a brutal way? A saying can be plucked from the days of Mecca that explicitly says 'kill the enemy' but contextually, it just doesn't fit into our society. Contextually, it has no meaning for us in our modern day.

I never claimed Islam was okay with homosexuality. I claimed I am. I don't represent the entirety of Islam but thanks, I'm flattered. Mecca, where there's a corrupt monarchy? Egypt, the place where civil war raged across the country? Why would I go to ISOC if it's full of 'insignificant TSR users'? But you said there was no ambiguity in Sharia Law?

Well, you did tell me that TSR users are insignificant, so I guess I'll listen to your advice.
In islamic/sharia law the penalty for apostasy is death….mohammed himself said 'who ever changes his religion kill him'

In the west the media NEVER report on what islam is,does,teaches,causes and allows…never have I heard them report islam is violent, or misogynistic…BUT have heard them say 'islam is about peace and love' and 'islam respects females' but of course, we know misogyny isn't respect
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TheCynicalChild
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#160
(Original post by Aussiekiwi)
In islamic/sharia law the penalty for apostasy is death….mohammed himself said 'who ever changes his religion kill him'

In the west the media NEVER report on what islam is,does,teaches,causes and allows…never have I heard them report islam is violent, or misogynistic…BUT have heard them say 'islam is about peace and love' and 'islam respects females' but of course, we know misogyny isn't respect
Lol, NEVER have I come across anything like that. Source? I'd love to know.

...Where on earth do you live?
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