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German Hunter pays £39,000 to kill largest elephant in living memory watch

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    (Original post by CoolCavy)
    This is so sad. It isn't even that he poached the elephant to sell the ivory to feed his family. He did it for pure sickening 'fun'. Dispicable

    http://www.youtubesub.com/news?id=14...wean-game-park

    (Original post by versari)
    what could possibly be the point of killing an elephant in order to save an elephant. It's nonsense.
    Except it isn't just to save one elephant. Private land where people can hunt means habitat kept for wildlife, as high numbers if wildlife are in the landowners interests. It means watering holes for the elephants to use. Without this literally hundreds, or even thousands of elephants, and numerous other species, would die. Hunting terrain is not pretty. It's scrubby and bushy and if you went on safari there you'd be lucky to see one elephant. It will never bring in money through tourism. Might bring some money in through converting it to farmland....or by burning the bush and poaching all the animals then turning it into farmland though. So how do you propose we protect this habitat and the animals that live in it?

    People who hunt are *****, but in many parts of Africa they are the only reason that wild habitat still exists. If you all want to give your money up to protect these animals instead then fine, but short of that it's the only way to do it.


    Farmers in this country complain they can't live alongside badgers for Christ sake, imagine how bad coexisting with elephants must be. It's so hypocritical expecting them to do so without paying for it.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    Tbh I can still sometimes understand that as a conversation tool as controversial as it is. Lions/Tigers all over the world are euthanized at zoos when they're bred yet not needing in the zoological community (though obviously WAZA membership and the like is meant to co-ordinate to limit this), if letting some rich bloke pay £50,000 to shot an old Lion, particularly if captive bred anyway, gives a lot of funding to help conversation projects, maybe it's a necessary evil at times.
    This is a myth - it gives a lot of money to the pocket of the landowner. What it does do, however ,is ,by giving him that money, incentivise him to keep the land wildlife friendly, providing good habitat for the animals which otherwise would probably be burnt and turned into farmland. More often than not they also employ ex poachers as guides, giving them employment and meaning there's no need for them to poach any more. Take that away and they go back to poaching.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    It disgusts me but assuming you are a meat-eater, I don't see why you care so much? Billions of animals die every year so you meat-eating savages can eat meat. Think about that before you post fake posts pretending to feel compassion for this poor elephant. If you eat meat, your compassion towards other living animals is a fake compassion.

    You cannot honestly believe that by participating in the death and destruction and suffering of countless other animal species makes you a good person just because you apparently seem to care about the fate of this elephant? :rolleyes:

    That goes to all the savage meat-eating people reading this!
    If anything its better than eating farmed meat because the animal lead a nice fulfilling life in the wild, and wast part of a process emitting tonnes of methane and God knows what else into the environment, speeding up climate change and soil degradation...
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    (Original post by DarkMagic)
    I don't think its quite the same thing. I don't eat a lot of meat (mostly just chicken and mince) but most of the meat people eat come from animals that are bred for that purpose. I'm not trying to defend that, but I do think there is a difference between lifting a packet of pork chops from a shelf and cooking them, to actually shooting the pig yourself and enjoying it.

    On the other hand, this guy has paid nearly £40,000 for the satisfaction of killing a defenceless animal. To me, that is completely sick. He will celebrate his 'huge accomplishment', boast about it and then he will move on and kill something else. He should be locked up.
    And yet people like him have conserved a million and more animals than you ever will...ironic isn't it?

    By eating meat you're probably doing more harm to elephants, and African wildlife on the whole, than he ever will. Africa is the continent predicted to see the highest increase in temperature under climate change. Meat, especially sheep and cows, contribute a huge amount of emissions.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    And yet people like him have conserved a million and more animals than you ever will...ironic isn't it?

    By eating meat you're probably doing more harm to elephats, and African Wildlife on the whole, than he ever will. Africa is the country predicted to see the highest increase in temperature under climate change. Meat, especially sheep and cows, contribute a huge amount of emissions.
    Africa isn't a country...
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    (Original post by redferry)
    If anything its better than eating farmed meat because the animal lead a nice fulfilling life in the wild, and wast part of a process emitting tonnes of methane and God knows what else into the environment, speeding up climate change and soil degradation...
    Meat-eating and environmental concerns don't really go well together when you are debating what meat to eat. Meat is bad for the environment period. If you really give a damn about the environment, you would stop eating meat because each burger uses 660 gallons of water to make, releases a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere, and not to mention uses a lot of grain and releases a lot of methane into the air.

    Go vegan for the animals, the environment, and your conscience! :woo:
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Meat-eating and environmental concerns don't really go well together when you are debating what meat to eat. Meat is bad for the environment period. If you really give a damn about the environment, you would stop eating meat because each burger uses 200 litres of water to make, releases a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere, and not to mention uses a lot of grain and releases a lot of methane into the air.

    Go vegan for the animals, the environment, and your conscience! :woo:
    You're talking rubbish.

    Eating venison that has been shot to protect the environment is clearly not bad for the environment....

    Farmed, yes, wild shot, no. If you have to shoot them anyway they may as well be eaten.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Africa isn't a country...
    Hahaha my bad, better correct that, I meant continent (pretty embarrassing for a PhD student studying climate change across the African continent!)
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You're talking rubbish.

    Eating venison that has been shot to protect the environment is clearly not bad for the environment....

    Farmed, yes, wild shot, no. If you have to shoot them anyway they may as well be eaten.
    If you don't believe me do some research. I am not talking rubbish. I just did a google search and I correct my above fact. It's not 200 litres but 660 gallons to make a beef burger.

    By your logic we should start killing humans because we're destroying our planet far more than Venison.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Hahaha my bad, better correct that, I meant continent (pretty embarrassing for a PhD student studying climate change across the African continent!)
    Pretty embarrassing for a PhD climate change student to be lecturing vegans about climate change when they believe shooting animals which they raise for meat is good for the environment :rolleyes:

    Why don't you become a vegan if you really care about the planet?
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    If you don't believe me do some research. I am not talking rubbish. I just did a google search and I correct my above fact. It's not 200 litres but 660 gallons to make a beef burger.

    By your logic we should start killing humans because we're destroying our planet far more than Venison.
    So you have now decided to lecture a vegetarian who is vegetarian purely for emissions purposes on the emissions of beef? You vegans really do know how to misdirect your efforts, I will give you that....

    I was referring purely to your assertion that all meat eating is bad for the environment.

    Your preference seems to be that rather than controlling deer numbers in this country we should allow populations to multiply unchecked, destroying all the natural habitat in this country and killing all our native species off in the process, before they then all die off themselves due to lack of resources, slowly and painfully from starvation. You would rather that happened, than we shot a few thousand deer each year. You're probably one of those nutters that opposes the feral cat culls in Australia as well. Totally barmy.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So you have now decided to lecture a vegetarian who is vegetarian purely for emissions purposes on the emissions of beef? You vegans really do know how to misdirect your efforts, I will give you that....

    I was referring purely to your assertion that all meat eating is bad for the environment.

    Your preference seems to be that rather than controlling deer numbers in this country we should allow populations to multiply unchecked, destroying all the natural habitat in this country and killing all our native species off in the process, before they then all die off themselves due to lack of resources, slowly and painfully from starvation. You would rather that happened, than we shot a few thousand deer each year. You're probably one of those nutters that opposes the feral cat culls in Australia as well. Totally barmy.
    Well if you don't eat meat that's great! I commend you. Read this: http://www.naturalnews.com/023341_wa...k_organic.html

    2000gallons of water are required to produce 1 gallon of milk. Eating milk and cheese is not good for the environment, not to mention the fact that it is cruel and inhumane on the animal and her calves.

    I hope one day you can make the transition to become a vegan on both environmental and ethical grounds. If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to watch two documentaries: Earthlings and Cowspiracy

    Also, don't forgot humans caused all these problems by killing off the natural predators. If we had a functioning predator-prey system, we wouldn't have these issues. What happened in Australia is again our fault because we introduced non-native animals.

    Finally my original statement about humans being far more destructive than any other animal stands firm. We're by far the most destructive animal species in the history of the planet. Why don't we start culling humans by your logic?
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Pretty embarrassing for a PhD climate change student to be lecturing vegans about climate change when they believe shooting animals which they raise for meat is good for the environment :rolleyes:

    Why don't you become a vegan if you really care about the planet?
    You give vegans a bad name, in fact, you give every single rational person like that is trying their hardest to inspire and encourage people to cut down on their meat and dairy consumption for the good of the planet a bad name. You undo all the good work we do in presenting rational reasonable arguments by going on rants, saying you have to cut out not cut down (which people are far more likely to do) and by calling into question peoples morals and characters. You perpetrate the loony vegan/vegetarian argument, and in all honesty, make me want to start eating meat again so that I am not associated with people like you.

    It's because of people like you that my family cant accept my vegetarianism. I hope that makes you feel good.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You give vegans a bad name, in fact, you give every single rational person like that is trying their hardest to inspire and encourage people to cut down on their meat and dairy consumption for the good of the planet a bad name. You undo all the good work we do in presenting rational reasonable arguments by going on rants, saying you have to cut out not cut down (which people are far more likely to do) and by calling into question peoples morals and characters. You perpetrate the loony vegan/vegetarian argument, and in all honesty, make me want to start eating meat again so that I am not associated with people like you.

    It's because of people like you that my family cant accept my vegetarianism.
    You give climate change a bad name by not leading by example. Also you called my views on the matter rubbish, and are incredibly rude. You give humanity a bad name with that attitude. I was never rude to you but you were rude to me.

    And don't blame me for your family not wanting to go vegetarian. They're just ignorant of what their lifestyle does to the planet. Maybe you are not doing a good enough job in persuading them. How about trying harder to persuade them? My parents are vegetarian and i'm trying to persuade them to go vegan but they don't want to know what drinking milk and eating cheese does to the environment and planet - they choose to live in ignorance, just like your parents I presume. I think it is unfair of you to blame people like me. A bit childish too for a PhD student.
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    (Original post by CoolCavy)
    This is so sad. It isn't even that he poached the elephant to sell the ivory to feed his family. He did it for pure sickening 'fun'. Dispicable

    http://www.youtubesub.com/news?id=14...wean-game-park

    Insanity. Such a depressing image.

    Hopefully one day the human race will be advanced enough to be able to protect natural habitats and wildlife to admire rather than succumbing to primitive instincts.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    You give climate change a bad name by not leading by example. Also you called my views on the matter rubbish, and are incredibly rude. You give humanity a bad name with that attitude.
    So not having a car, buying food locally, not eating meat and eating very little dairy, dedicating my entire life to conservation...is not leading by example?

    The minute a tiny piece of cheese passes my lips does not completely undo all the effort I have put in elsewhere. If people just cut out meat one day a week we would cut down on emissions massively. I'm sure I have inspired far more people than you to cut down on their meat consumption.

    I'm a scientist - scientifically your view that ALL meat is bad for the environment is rubbish. Without wildlife friendly cattle ranching African Wild Dogs would never have returned to my study site. The cows emissions are low because they are grazed throughout the bush and savannah - which would have been burned and converted to farmland without them. To you it is black and white, when in reality everything is relative.
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    (Original post by Captain Jack)
    Insanity. Such a depressing image.

    Hopefully one day the human race will be advanced enough to be able to protect natural habitats and wildlife to admire rather than succumbing to primitive instincts.
    Who is going to pay for it then? You?

    We can't magic up the money for conservation out of nowhere, unfortunately.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Except it isn't just to save one elephant. Private land where people can hunt means habitat kept for wildlife, as high numbers if wildlife are in the landowners interests. It means watering holes for the elephants to use. Without this literally hundreds, or even thousands of elephants, and numerous other species, would die. Hunting terrain is not pretty. It's scrubby and bushy and if you went on safari there you'd be lucky to see one elephant. It will never bring in money through tourism. Might bring some money in through converting it to farmland....or by burning the bush and poaching all the animals then turning it into farmland though. So how do you propose we protect this habitat and the animals that live in it?

    People who hunt are *****, but in many parts of Africa they are the only reason that wild habitat still exists. If you all want to give your money up to protect these animals instead then fine, but short of that it's the only way to do it.


    Farmers in this country complain they can't live alongside badgers for Christ sake, imagine how bad coexisting with elephants must be. It's so hypocritical expecting them to do so without paying for it.
    Why do you have to **** on idealistic naive people all the time with your facts CoolCavy is just your typical teenage girl that cares about animals that hasn't twigged how crappy and grey the world is and that to help animals you ahve to do counter intuitive things like let ****s shoot them.

    Well we subsidize farmers anyway don't we? Why not subsidize any damage caused by wildlife. Charity isn't the only way of stopping it, regulation and interference by states can do it surely.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Who is going to pay for it then? You?

    We can't magic up the money for conservation out of nowhere, unfortunately.
    Actually, yes - I already am. These are the conservation charities I pay money to:
    http://www.jackwallington.com/conservation-charities/

    I encourage others to do the same, even a little bit. Individually you obviously can't unless you are a millionaire, but on mass, we can all make a big difference.

    Start with the Scottish Wildcat Haven for some local impact conservation.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    So not having a car, buying food locally, not eating meat and eating very little dairy, dedicating my entire life to conservation...is not leading by example?

    The minute a tiny piece of cheese passes my lips does not completely undo all the effort I have put in elsewhere. If people just cut out meat one day a week we would cut down on emissions massively. I'm sure I have inspired far more people than you to cut down on their meat consumption.

    I'm a scientist - scientifically your view that ALL meat is bad for the environment is rubbish. Without wildlife friendly cattle ranching African Wild Dogs would never have returned to my study site. The cows emissions are low because they are grazed throughout the bush and savannah - which would have been burned and converted to farmland without them. To you it is black and white, when in reality everything is relative.
    100% correct. You're undoing all that hard conservation work, whatever it is, by consuming animal products. It's hypocritical saying you are doing all this conversation work then wasting 1000's of gallons on water so you can have your cheese and milk. Just think about it for a moment and you will realise how ridiculous it actually is. It's like destroying a rainforest then planting 1 tree and claiming you are doing conservation work.

    I'm from a science background too and student quite a few climate modules as part of my degree so i'm not talking as a noob either. I've also done a lot of reading around the subject on my own accord and what the meat eating, cheese and milk drinking researching don't tell you in university is how bad their lifestyle choices are for the environment, and of course they wouldn't because they would all be exposed as hypocrites. University seems to be all about boosting your own ego rather than publishing anything that shows the whole picture. I.e. that eating cheese and drinking milk is bad for the environment, as is eating meat, and raising animals for meat
 
 
 
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