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religious people- If you found out that your religion wasn't... watch

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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    As what I had posted earlier, my decision to study Physics was an informed decision - I gathered as much information as I could, and, based on what was available, thought that Physics was the subject to study; it was not because my cousin also studied Physics. So in no way would I have ever thought that the correct subject to study was English Literature.

    Everyone has restrictions in their lives - I wished that I was the Queen - and while I know that I could have done better not studying Physics, studying Physics still did enrich my life.
    whats good having a "enriched life" if now you aren't able to go to heaven?
    If it wasn't the correct way of life then surely you didn't do enough research. Who says the religion you are following is enriching instead of enforcing unnecessary restrictions?
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    (Original post by )
    whats good having a "enriched life" if now you aren't able to go to heaven?
    If it wasn't the correct way of life then surely you didn't do enough research. Who says the religion you are following is enriching instead of enforcing unnecessary restrictions?
    Examples of an enriched life could be companionship, and possibly better health and a longer life expectancy. Also, the belief system I gave was a hypothetical one - it may be Christianity, Islam, and even atheism. I'm quite sure they're all enriching and limiting in their own way, but as a whole, why would anyone want to follow a belief system which is more limiting than enriching?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Good to see that instead of confronting the evidence, you run away and try to turn this discussion into something funny. As I said, you've misinterpreted the words in the Quran as proven that the same word was used elsewhere in the Quran to provide the same meaning.

    What your problem is (and Islamophobes), is that you're quick to cherry pick verses from the Quran, given that you have no background in Arabic or even in the Sciences of Hadith, you are therefore in no objective position to comment on the Quran.

    If you had common sense, you'd know that Arabic is one of the worlds most complex and richest languages, and you probably can't even read Arabic let alone interpret it. So don't lecture the native speakers about how their religious book is interpreted.

    According to your logic if a baseball player says "Hey pass me a bat" then he is definitely talking about a real-life bat (animal), in which case you've already circled two of your own boxes in the picture above:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Good to see that instead of confronting the evidence, you run away and try to turn this discussion into something funny. As I said, you've misinterpreted the words in the Quran as proven that the same word was used elsewhere in the Quran to provide the same meaning.

    What your problem is (and Islamophobes), is that you're quick to cherry pick verses from the Quran, given that you have no background in Arabic or even in the Sciences of Hadith, you are therefore in no objective position to comment on the Quran.

    If you had common sense, you'd know that Arabic is one of the worlds most complex and richest languages, and you probably can't even read Arabic let alone interpret it. So don't lecture the native speakers about how their religious book is interpreted.

    According to your logic if a baseball player says "Hey pass me a bat" then he is definitely talking about a real-life bat (animal), in which case you've already circled two of your own boxes in the picture above:rolleyes:
    You have not supplied any evidence, you merely supplied lies and opinions or what i like to call, bull faeces.

    I didn't cherry pick anything. You directly asked people in this thread to find you just one scientific inaccuracy in the Quran and i found you two just for starters. That is not cherry picking my intellectually stunted friend.

    "Islamophobes" - Those nasty wretched people who dare question your opinions and assertions :rolleyes:

    Ah arabic a language so complex and complicated anybody who is non speaking arabic can never communicate and vice versa. How on earth do people with these languages ever learn to communicate :rolleyes: More UTTER TRIPE to try and refute the flaws in your beliefs.

    With you throwing me in with the "islamophobes"

    "What your problem is (and Islamophobes), is that you're quick to cherry pick verses from the Quran"

    And this

    "Arabic is one of the worlds most complex and richest languages, and you probably can't even read Arabic let alone interpret it"

    I am two steps closer to a full house on my bull**** bingo card. Happy days!

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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    This isn't going to convince anyone as all religious people say their religion is the correct and best one.
    so which religion does u belong to?? but I guarantee u Islam is the best religion..
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    so which religion does u belong to?? but I guarantee u Islam is the best religion..
    I don't belong to any and again, every religious person will "guarantee" that their religion is the best one.
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    I believe there is only one God anyway. Monotheist religions just depict that God differently. So, if i died and that happened, i would not mind. As long as you live your life as a good, selfless person.
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Both of these have been discussed in depth in the past, none of which require much thinking in all honesty.

    As you're probably aware (or not) that Arabic is if not, (one of) the most difficult and richest languages in the world. In Arabic, we have 28 different letters, each letter can have 1 of 3 different accents. Therefore, one word in Arabic can have many different meanings.

    Since you do not speak Arabic, you have relied on direct translations to understand the verse to mean that both ‘sulb’ (backbone) and ‘tara’ib’ (ribs) refer to the male. In other words, the fluid emitted refers to the semen, and it comes out from in between the sulb and the tara’ib. However, the truth of the matter is that the word ‘tarai’b’—according to the Arabic—is actually referring to a female body part. Much like the English word ‘penis’ can only be ascribed to a male, the word ‘tara’ib’ can only be related to th female.

    This is not apologetic modernism or revisionism; the classical works of Quranic commentary throughout the last 1400 years confirm this view categorically. In other words, the sulb belongs to the male, and the tara’ib belongs to the female. This is the view of the Muslims since the last fourteen hundred years, and there is consensus (ijma) on this matter, since the time of the Sahabah (the Prophet’s disciples) until today, applied to a female.

    As for the proper definition of sulb in the context of this verse, it is ‘loins’ and NOT backbone.
    The word “sulb” should not necessarily be translated as “backbone”. This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “Prohibited to you (for marriage) are…wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb).” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23]
    So why, in the context of human reproduction, does the Quran never mention the testes or the ovum? Why did Allah go all round the houses with a description that, even with all your explanation, still does not give an accurate picture of the process?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I don't belong to any and again, every religious person will "guarantee" that their religion is the best one.
    I have many evidences to show that Is islam is the best comparing all other religions..
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    I have many evidences to show that Is islam is the best comparing all other religions..
    They've been debunked and religious people will say the same about their religions.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    They've been debunked and religious people will say the same about their religions.
    AS i said its for the people to make their life easier and happier & only for those who dont talk rude about it. And if u have read the history of Islam u would just be able to know what it is & it has discussed about the other religion too...
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    What your problem is (and Islamophobes), is that you're quick to cherry pick verses from the Quran, given that you have no background in Arabic or even in the Sciences of Hadith, you are therefore in no objective position to comment on the Quran.
    So anyone who cannot read Classical Arabic and is not trained in Hadith Sciences is in no position to comment on the Quran?

    Well that rules out the vast majority of Muslims then!

    If you had common sense, you'd know that Arabic is one of the worlds most complex and richest languages,
    And yet it cannot be translated into other languages without losing its meaning - even when translated by Arabic speaking Muslim scholars?
    Seems like a lack of foresight by Allah there.

    and you probably can't even read Arabic let alone interpret it. So don't lecture the native speakers about how their religious book is interpreted.
    Every translation was made by an Arabic speaker, most of them native, most probably more experienced in linguistics and Islamic study than you - so why are you so well qualified to reject their translations?

    You seem to be labouring under the misaprehension that all English translations of the Quran were carried out by English non-Muslims who could not speak Arabic! :confused:

    According to your logic if a baseball player says "Hey pass me a bat" then he is definitely talking about a real-life bat (animal), in which case you've already circled two of your own boxes in the picture above:rolleyes:
    Not really.
    "Bat" may have two meanings, but it would be impossiblt to assume the flying rodent usage in the context of a baseball player asking for one.

    It does not matter which part of the lower back, hips, loins, etc, you claim it is referring to, in the context of human reproduction, it is inaccurate.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So anyone who cannot read Classical Arabic and is not trained in Hadith Sciences is in no position to comment on the Quran?

    Well that rules out the vast majority of Muslims then!

    And yet it cannot be translated into other languages without losing its meaning - even when translated by Arabic speaking Muslim scholars?
    Seems like a lack of foresight by Allah there.

    Every translation was made by an Arabic speaker, most of them native, most probably more experienced in linguistics and Islamic study than you - so why are you so well qualified to reject their translations?

    You seem to be labouring under the misaprehension that all English translations of the Quran were carried out by English non-Muslims who could not speak Arabic! :confused:

    Not really.
    "Bat" may have two meanings, but it would be impossiblt to assume the flying rodent usage in the context of a baseball player asking for one.

    It does not matter which part of the lower back, hips, loins, etc, you claim it is referring to, in the context of human reproduction, it is inaccurate.
    what can we summarise from ur post. r u a muslim and support islam
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    As for the proper definition of sulb in the context of this verse, it is ‘loins’ and NOT backbone.
    The word “sulb” should not necessarily be translated as “backbone”. This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “Prohibited to you (for marriage) are…wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb).” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23]
    This is mere circular logic. The fact that another verse describes human reproduction as "coming from the loins", does not mean that it is an accurate description.
    Contrary to what you appear to believe, "loins" does not mean "testes". It refers to the lower part of the abdomen, usually below the ribs and above the hips.

    The simple way to clear this up is to see whether there is an Arabic word for "testes". If there is one, and Allah did not use it in the context of human reproduction but instead used a word that describes a general area of the lower torso, he clearly did not know that the testes are the most important male organ in the context of human reproduction.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    الخصيات = testes - not in the Quran
    الصُّلْبِ = loins - in the Quran
    Two different words
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    what can we summarise from ur post. r u a muslim and support islam
    I tip my fedora to your powers of deduction.:hat2:
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So anyone who cannot read Classical Arabic and is not trained in Hadith Sciences is in no position to comment on the Quran?

    Well that rules out the vast majority of Muslims then!
    Correct, it does rule out the majority of Muslims. Mainstream Muslims themselves should not attempt to interpret the Quran themselves provided they are not trained to do so. Quran interpretation requires a thorough understanding of Arabic and the context it is written in. The smallest chapter in the Quran contains 10 words, and in just 10 words you can find 40 rhetorical devices (linguistic features). This is to give you the idea of how complex Arabic can be, and therefore cannot be interpreted by anyone.



    (Original post by QE2)
    Not really.
    "Bat" may have two meanings, but it would be impossiblt to assume the flying rodent usage in the context of a baseball player asking for one.

    Exactly, which is why I was explaining that the Quranic verses, similarly, cannot be taken out of context. The example I used about a baseball player was a very basic one. Here we talk about a religion that is much richer than English and contains hundreds and hundreds of homonyms depending on certain accents and where the word lies in the sentence.



    (Original post by QE2)
    It does not matter which part of the lower back, hips, loins, etc, you claim it is referring to, in the context of human reproduction, it is inaccurate.

    Actually it does, since it refers to the loins then surely that is scientifically correct?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    This is mere circular logic. The fact that another verse describes human reproduction as "coming from the loins", does not mean that it is an accurate description.
    Contrary to what you appear to believe, "loins" does not mean "testes". It refers to the lower part of the abdomen, usually below the ribs and above the hips.

    The simple way to clear this up is to see whether there is an Arabic word for "testes". If there is one, and Allah did not use it in the context of human reproduction but instead used a word that describes a general area of the lower torso, he clearly did not know that the testes are the most important male organ in the context of human reproduction.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    الخصيات = testes - not in the Quran
    الصُّلْبِ = loins - in the Quran
    Two different words
    You are aware that the word loins can mean genital area as well, right? Unless these Oxford Dictionary writers really need the sac!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I tip my fedora to your powers of deduction.:hat2:
    Which religion does u belong to???
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    Man i got a yellow card for my bingo escapades for "inciting religious hatred" .

 
 
 
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