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B881 - Abolition of Private Education Bill 2015 watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So why does every socialist I have ever heard spout their socialist ways seem to give the impression that it matters not how well or poorly people do, so long as those evil people (aka anybody better off than oneself) is brough down to your own level? Is that actually it, or is that the only way to achieve the goals?

    And if all outcomes are equal you have a dysfunctional society
    Because you start from the completely false assumption that the process of achieving equality can only be achieved by pulling the top down. The top is pulled down somewhat, but the bottom is pulled up way more.

    FWIW, I wouldn't support a policy of reducing all effective incomes to those of the poorest - I think it would be worse than the current situation.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Because you start from the completely false assumption that the process of achieving equality can only be achieved by pulling the top down. The top is pulled down somewhat, but the bottom is pulled up way more.

    FWIW, I wouldn't support a policy of reducing all effective incomes to those of the poorest - I think it would be worse than the current situation.
    Care to point out where this "assumption" was made without removing critical information from the quotation
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Care to point out where this "assumption" was made without removing critical information from the quotation
    You make it constantly when criticising leftists for achieving equality by pulling the top down rather than bringing the bottom up.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    You make it constantly when criticising leftists for achieving equality by pulling the top down rather than bringing the bottom up.
    Have you heard of observation? For example, what have we seen this term already: two bills in as many weeks from the hard left that strive to pull the top down (and make the bottom drop a bit with them).
    What seems to always be the solution: The King John approach, raise taxes, drag everybody down
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you heard of observation? For example, what have we seen this term already: two bills in as many weeks from the hard left that strive to pull the top down (and make the bottom drop a bit with them).
    What seems to always be the solution: The King John approach, raise taxes, drag everybody down
    This is the opposite result to what either of these Bills would achieve (and don't start spouting trickle-down economics rubbish).
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    This is the opposite result to what either of these Bills would achieve (and don't start spouting trickle-down economics rubbish).
    So by forcibly reducing the quality of the services for the top you aren't dragging them down, and then in doing so increasing the strain on the system used by everybody else doesn't drag everybody else down too?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So by forcibly reducing the quality of the services for the top you aren't dragging them down, and then in doing so increasing the strain on the system used by everybody else doesn't drag everybody else down too?

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    I mean, you obviously have to levy some kind of charge on the families who would otherwise have used private education in order to distribute that throughout the public education system.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    I mean, you obviously have to levy some kind of charge on the families who would otherwise have used private education in order to distribute that throughout the public education system.
    You do realise that they're already doing that? Well, strictly what you propose is a system that cannot be implemented for at all long because the information needed for it would be impossible to obtain.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You do realise that they're already doing that? Well, strictly what you propose is a system that cannot be implemented for at all long because the information needed for it would be impossible to obtain.

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    You say it would be 'impossible to obtain' - sure, you can't obtain the precise data, but you can levy charges based on income group. So, for instance, the price of a year's schooling could depend on some kind of formula taking into account the net income of the family in the previous year (including capital gains) as well as their liquid capital, maybe a portion of non-liquid capital. However, so the middle classes aren't hit too hard, we could only start levying charges at a family income of around £120-150k, and levy the charge per family rather than per child.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    You say it would be 'impossible to obtain' - sure, you can't obtain the precise data, but you can levy charges based on income group. So, for instance, the price of a year's schooling could depend on some kind of formula taking into account the net income of the family in the previous year (including capital gains) as well as their liquid capital, maybe a portion of non-liquid capital. However, so the middle classes aren't hit too hard, we could only start levying charges at a family income of around £120-150k, and levy the charge per family rather than per child.
    AKA: put up income tax, which is not what you prposed. What you proposed is an impossibility past the first few years, plain and simple.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    AKA: put up income tax, which is not what you prposed. What you proposed is an impossibility past the first few years, plain and simple.
    Not pure income tax, and it also manages to affect foreign nationals, which a conventional income tax cannot.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Not pure income tax, and it also manages to affect foreign nationals, which a conventional income tax cannot.
    It is basically a form of income tax, stop trying to hide that this is just a measure to steal even more from the wealthy
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It is basically a form of income tax, stop trying to hide that this is just a measure to steal even more from the wealthy
    It's better than income tax because it's tougher to avoid. I'm not going to deny that this is a measure to distribute money, but I object strongly to the use of the word 'steal', not least because the whole 'tax is theft' mindset is befitting of a 13-year old libertarian and... nobody else.
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