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The idea that the bikini is just as much a form of oppression as the burqa is crap watch

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    Neither of them are oppressive. Most Muslim women wear Islamic clothing out of their own choice and that is fine. Most if not all women wear bikinis out of choice. And both options are fine. If you're not doing anything wrong then what the problem? It's your clothes and your life.
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    I think that an important distinction needs to be made here which even the muslim community is beginning to forget to make. Hijab is not a headscarf. The headscarf is called a Khamr in arabic. 'Hijab' is a code of modesty, not restricted to, but including dress code (this aspect is called 'jilbaab' in arabic) which applies to both muslim men and muslim women.
    http://quran.com/24/31
    Evidence here.

    By calling the khamr the headscarf, you are aiding in what is effectively the destruction of male hijab as a practiced concept - and when muslims preach female modesty without male modesty, that becomes oppressive.
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    Just spent like half an hour reading through all this but I still agree with the original poster.
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    (Original post by Mystery.)
    Just spent like half an hour reading through all this but I still agree with the original poster.
    I actually agree. Wearing burqa has social pressures involved - the same can't be said, at least not to the same extent, as with the bikini. Even if a muslim girl from a secular family who doesn't share those opinions chooses to wear a burqa, she does so because she thinks its 'more islamic', but where's the evidence for that? Does she know it, or does it just come from the muslim community acting like it's a foregone conclusion that more covering = better islamic validity?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Something Muslims always do with their religion.
    I have no interest in what Muslims do or do not with their religion.

    What do I have an issue with, is what presumably a non-religious person, is exercising and claiming some kind superiority over Muslims (and perhaps religious people) by either providing evidence for a claim made by himself or resorting to logical fallacies in the explanation of his views.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I have no interest in what Muslims do or do not with their religion.

    What do I have an issue with, is what presumably a non-religious person, is exercising and claiming some kind superiority over Muslims (and perhaps religious people) by either providing evidence for a claim made by himself or resorting to logical fallacies in the explanation of his views.
    What evidences do you want?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    What evidences do you want?
    I want him to exercise rational thought, critical reasoning and logical reasoning. A position I have asked him throughout our discussion yet he is reluctant or stubborn to do so.
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    (Original post by Riverstar)
    By saying that the burqa is bad you're oppressing them! It's a symbol of their religion, like wearing a Christian cross necklace. If you don't like it, you don't wear it. Don't say that it's bad for these women to wear whatever they like
    How is it "oppressive" to criticize something?
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    (Original post by Rainbow Student)
    Neither of them are oppressive. Most Muslim women wear Islamic clothing out of their own choice and that is fine. Most if not all women wear bikinis out of choice. And both options are fine. If you're not doing anything wrong then what the problem? It's your clothes and your life.
    It's a problem when Muslims think that any woman who doesn't wear "Islamic" garb is a whore.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    It's a problem when Muslims think that any woman who doesn't wear "Islamic" garb is a whore.
    I agree, especially when different muslims have different opinions on what exactly constitute the minimum compulsions of islamic dress.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Nowhere in the Koran it is written that women should wear a burqa. It is an interpretation made by Wahhabi Muslims.

    Also, you're bold to compare a necklace with a full veil.
    I've not read the Koran, but the origin of the tradition is not important. What's important is that these ladies feel like they can wear their veils without being oppressed.

    My point is that the burqa/veil is symbolic of their religion, and in that aspect it is similar to a cross, or a kippah, or any other religious symbol.
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    (Original post by Riverstar)
    I've not read the Koran, but the origin of the tradition is not important. What's important is that these ladies feel like they can wear their veils without being oppressed.

    My point is that the burqa/veil is symbolic of their religion, and in that aspect it is similar to a cross, or a kippah, or any other religious symbol.
    I'm at pains with this because calling the burqa or star and crescent islamic symbols is thrusting a 'symbol of your religion' onto every muslim, many of whom believe that neither are islamic symbols.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Just allow women to wear what they want, then you're not oppressing them. Not allowing a woman to dress "islamically" is surely no different to Saudi Arabia forcing all women to wear the burqa. (Or being taunted for not wearing no one)
    The OP isn't saying that Muslim women shouldn't be allowed to wear the burqa.. He/she is just pointing out the false comparison between the burqa and bikinis demonstrated in the picture
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    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    I'm at pains with this because calling the burqa or star and crescent islamic symbols is thrusting a 'symbol of your religion' onto every muslim, many of whom believe that neither are islamic symbols.
    Might I ask what are "Islamic symbols"?


    I don't necessarily disagree but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Might I ask what are "Islamic symbols"?


    I don't necessarily disagree but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
    I don't think that there are any image symbols of Islam. Even the beard and headscarf are only recommended, though I guess you could call them symbols if you wanted to. Green could be considered an islamic colour since it was the colour of the Hashemis, but that's more of a clan colour for Sayyeds (descendants of Muhammad)... A lot of muslims don't want islam to have symbols, as it is.
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    the idea that the burqa and bikinis are morally equal is ridiculous. there's no law in the west mandating to wear bikinis. there *are* laws in the middle east mandating women to dress in that other way. there's no "wear this or get put in danger" ideology with bikinis, while with veils of every variety carry some sort of coercion without adhering to that dress code.
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    There's no mention to wear a Burqa but some women choose to anyway, or their subdivision of religion tells them to. You'll see most women who wear a full burqa are Sunnis, and those who usually wear a headscarf and a cardigan/long coat are Ahmadis.

    I'm a Muslim and I didn't wear a headscarf out until I was about 16. Then I chose to wear it, because you see school kids who are 10 wearing it and I doubt it's their choice then.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    It's a problem when Muslims think that any woman who doesn't wear "Islamic" garb is a whore.
    Oh that's true, but that's a problem if anyone thinks that such a woman is a whore.
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    women are not forced to wear the veil or burqa they do it of their own choice. that is not oppression.
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    (Original post by cooldudette)
    women are not forced to wear the veil or burqa they do it of their own choice. that is not oppression.
    In the UK some do it of their own choice and a minority are forced. I am from the muslim community and I personally know girls who want to wear a headscarf but not a burqa whose parents tell them that they'll disown them if they don't wear a burqa. In addition, some countries mandate the burqa according to their actual laws. That's institutional oppression.
 
 
 
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