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Is it time Europe bans Islam & muslim immigration? watch

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    (Original post by woIfie)
    What on earth are you blathering on about? Of course it was an Islamist attack. Everybody knows that. The attackers screamed "Allahu akbar" and then opened fire.

    If these terrorists have "nothing to do with Islam", then why would the far left and Muslims get so upset with us pointing out it was ISIS?
    I don't know who exactly you're quoting with the highlighted text. It's certainly not me. The attackers were reported to have screamed 'Allahu akbar' by some of the witnesses, yes. But is that definite proof that it was an Islamic attack? I would argue that it isn't -- the proof that emerged earlier today from the Islamic State's official is proof. Speculation and unconfirmed reports are not.

    You'd have to ask the far left and Muslims yourself; I don't speak for anyone but myself. I've simply made what would be a reasonable comment on a less emotionally-charged subject and the mob seems to have pounced on me for not being as quick to come to barely thought out conclusions as them. I'm too tired to put up with any more of this ****.
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    (Original post by Scrappy-coco)
    Actually he blamed jews not Judaism.

    People blame Islam not muslims. There are different views you should be aware of.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The point I was trying to make was you shouldn't generalise a whole mass of people based on their [peaceful] religion. I understand that people think there are fatal flaws in islamic belief that make people do very bad things but as I pointed out in my prior point, it's just not true.
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    Banning Islam is impossible, but we could at least try to ban Wahhabism/Salafism. It means closing their mosques and associations, seizing their money, banning the burqa, their preaches and publications, and deporting foreign preachers. It will also make room for normal Muslims.
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    (Original post by JudahS)
    The point I was trying to make was you shouldn't generalise a whole mass of people based on their [peaceful] religion. I understand that people think there are fatal flaws in islamic belief that make people do very bad things but as I pointed out in my prior point, it's just not true.
    As to whether Islam is peaceful or not I'll leave for another day

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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Of course, but I'm sure they will have considered the likely effect of their actions on recruitment. I would in fact put it very much the other way round: the airstrikes are an excuse to mount an attack which will cause division and ultimately recruit more people. I have said much about French monoculture and hawkishness in recent years but do not forget that we are also part of the Syria coalition etc etc etc. They know that France is the closest country in Europe to electing a fascist anti-Muslim party. Their aim is to cause division.

    You are naive in thinking that the motivations of the ISIS command are genuine, i.e. they are genuinely aggrieved about the airstrikes. They love it. Plus the buggers have always been about image and theatre, the style of their attacks is very much a product of the Internet hyper sharing age and they are very good at Twitter and all that. Some elements of Western culture they are right on board with!
    Again, without proof, it's just speculation. Their own claim is that it was to do with airstrikes. To charge them with any other motives would require some kind of proof. I'm not going to pretend that I know what goes on in the mind of Mr. al-Baghdadi and I suggest everybody else refrain from doing that too.

    Of course if I had said they were doing it to avenge French airstrikes I'm sure I would get a lot of bile being called a "self-hating cuck" or whatever.
    I'm trying to exit this thread as quickly as possible. Most people here are clearly just here as an alternative to stuffing their face with junk food (or alcohol, for the older ones) to assuage their sense of loss.
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    (Original post by driftawaay)
    The KKK are not a religious/Christian organization and they don't want to kill black people because the Bible told them to. Completely irrelevant comment... educate yourself.
    :lolwut:

    No offence, but I think it's you that needs to educate yourself :facepalm:
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    Border control most definitely should be tightenened, more ID checks should be introduced etc. However, banning Islam and muslim immigration is not only a fascist ideology but completely impractical as well. How can officials identify who is muslim and who is not? Unless, the person is wearing religious clithing. Also, most of the terrorists responsible for the attacks are westernized, born and bred in Europe. Perhaprs EU should pass a legislation to ban muslims from existing in Europe? Let's not forget about U-turn which is already introduced and is aiming to protect the EU external borders. It's impossible to ban a religion and its followers without dehumanising ourselves and giving green light to extreme right wing ideas.
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    (Original post by qwerty_mad)
    What a 24 carat plonker!

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I thought you'd like that one.

    Are you one of these utter dunces who thinks ISIS have nothing to do with Islam?
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    So damn ignorant, if you want to stop people coming into this country then fine, but then don't go out on holidays to any other place but here, I think you are all forgetting that if America and Britain did not get involved in other countries in the first place, none of this would be happening. So don't go out to Egypt and Tunisia, Morocco ... HECK ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD! Stay in this country don't accept imports from other countries and let's see how you will love being trapped for the rest of your lives in this country!
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    It really worries me that there are people foolish enough to support this proposal on here. Whilst it's true that, on the internet, you'll find a higher concentration of lunacy, people should really stop and have a think about what they're saying and supporting here.

    Firstly, if this immoral and horrific attack was committed by ISIS, then this is precisely what they want to occur: they want to stir up division and recruit more and more people to their hateful ideology. How do they do that? They want more countries to attack them, first of all, but they want the millions of peaceful Muslims living in the Western world to become alienated.

    The title of this thread, which proposes banning Islam, plays directly into the hands of terrorists and Islamofascists. It also, incidentally, goes against the tenets of Western democracy: the freedom to express your belief and your religion.
    I agree, however there were two proposals: ban Islam and end muslim immigration. If the presence of a large number of people who can easily be turned into an enemy population is undesirable, then an obvious solution is to stop allowing that population to grow ever larger.

    I think this is a real problem for the pro-immigration tribe because when asked at the beginning of the whole project they denied that any such outcome would occur or was even possible. The division of Britain (or Europe) into two or more tribes precariously balanced on the brink of civil war is essentially what Enoch Powell was predicting in Birmingham in 1968.

    I don't see any palatable alternative to unconditional acceptance of those who are already here but we have a choice whether this population continues to grow at a rate of hundreds of thousands per year above the rate of natural increase. At some point that choice becomes whether or not we want to turn Great Britain into Northern Ireland.
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    (Original post by Sephiroth)
    Europe needs to get rid of the schengen agreement and have strict border controls across the continent. It seems like a step backwards but it's too easy for these people to enter Europe and move powerful weapons around.

    I'm not anti immigration but letting millions of Syrian refugees into the continent is the most stupid thing Europe has done since the second world war. If even 0.1% of them are terrorists that is a couple of thousand fighters spread across Europe and it only took 8 of them to cause the carnage last night.

    These attacks are going to become the norm, I don't think a year will go by without a major terrorist attack on European soil. Being an island and outside of schengen we're a bit safer in the UK but it could still happen here.
    I think you are forgetting the fact that during the First World War HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Europeans fled to Africa to seek safety! If not who knows maybe you wouldn't be alive right now, but when there is a war going on somewhere else and other people need help everyone seems to forget all about this fact! Just because they are Muslim, are they not human? Why is it that a religion has to be ridiculed and hated by the actions of a few? During the days where we had black slavery and the white people were the ones doing it, do we judge all of the white people of today just based on the actions of people from the past? EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD IS DIFFERENT! So don't judge people we are all human beings at the end of the day and we will all die at some point in our lives, life is too short to be hating people and making others feel bad! Just get on with your lives and don't bother anyone else!
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Again, without proof, it's just speculation. Their own claim is that it was to do with airstrikes. To charge them with any other motives would require some kind of proof. I'm not going to pretend that I know what goes on in the mind of Mr. al-Baghdadi and I suggest everybody else refrain from doing that too.



    I'm trying to exit this thread as quickly as possible. Most people here are clearly just here as an alternative to stuffing their face with junk food (or alcohol, for the older ones) to assuage their sense of loss.
    Yes but that is true of any political actor.

    We don't believe Western propaganda when it said Saddam had 45 minute missiles and he was the worst dictator in the world whom we needed to intervene on on humanitarian grounds. We mostly figure that Western interests intended to gain control over oil fields.

    Similarly I see no reason to take the ISIS lot particularly at their word or refrain from analysing their motives based on political expediency.
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    I find it quite funny (not to say sick) how some of you Europeans and 'americans' are so self centred sometimes. How did you pass school? You must have skipped the part that your ancestors invaded and violently looted the rest of the world to be where you are. One day all these centuries of violence would go back to you. And then the best solution is more violence or to close the borders. Brilliant. The ISIS has a mother and a father (islamic fundamentalism and Western imperialism).
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    No islam is fundamentally a peaceful religion. dont let the few spoil it.
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    (Original post by ivy.98)
    You can't bring immigrants into your country with the premise that they will eventually become just like everybody else. People come from their continents with their own country which they have no intention of giving up on.
    That is a ridiculous view to have. That isn't true. Also right now people seem to be spewing the same amount of hatred towards immigrants as they are towards refugee's fleeing their countries. It's not the same thing, nor is it okay to view the situation like that.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Are you able to wait until the motives of the perpetrators are identified or is that too much to ask? It may very well turn out to be an Islamic group that's behind the attacks, but until then, let's keep the baseless finger-pointing to a minimum.

    It astonishes me how willing people are to simply assume that it's an Islamic attack and then start debating the implications of that assumption as if it's fact.
    Two suicide bombers and you aren't sure if its an Islamic attack?
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    After yet more terrible terror attacks in France is it time that Europe faces reality and bans Islam & muslim immigration to Europe, muslim attacks seems never ending, 9/11, 7/7, Lee Rigby, Madrid Bombings, Belgium attacks, Rotherham Abuse, Charlie Hebdo & now more attacks in Paris.

    For goodness sake, without migration and more attacks how would the West stir up enthusiasm for its wars across the Middle East?

    Fortunately Guardian journalists will save us from the likes of you and keep the terrorism coming - banning migration, good lord.
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    (Original post by Ayčun)
    Border control most definitely should be tightenened, more ID checks should be introduced etc. However, banning Islam and muslim immigration is not only a fascist ideology but completely impractical as well. How can officials identify who is muslim and who is not? Unless, the person is wearing religious clithing. Also, most of the terrorists responsible for the attacks are westernized, born and bred in Europe. Perhaprs EU should pass a legislation to ban muslims from existing in Europe? Let's not forget about U-turn which is already introduced and is aiming to protect the EU external borders. It's impossible to ban a religion and its followers without dehumanising ourselves and giving green light to extreme right wing ideas.
    What use is a border control if the IDs of terrorists are not known?

    The problem isn't people, its the religion.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    That is a ridiculous view to have. That isn't true. Also right now people seem to be spewing the same amount of hatred towards immigrants as they are towards refugee's fleeing their countries. It's not the same thing, nor is it okay to view the situation like that.
    Don't you worry that the pro-migration lobby are just being set up? It is all too convenient that pro-migration is both the media's moral highground and the route to the terrorist violence needed to justify involvement in the Middle East. Now that no-one will believe that there are WMDs the West needs other pretexts.
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-Paris-attacks
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34820016

    Im pretty sure Hollande, given his advisors, would have intel on these people, just as they have done in the past with other terrorists who've carried out attacks in France. Im pretty sure, given his position and people he knows, that he knows more than a jumped up delusional idiot like yourself that buries their head in the sand to make a political point on a forum. Shove your leftie nonsense where the sun dont shine. This was very clearly Islamic State.
    So instead of actually finding out for yourself you trust what little information you are given. He blames IS. so what? Those are just words. I too am capable of blaming people. Also, where is the statement released by IS?

    I'm not ruling out that it was IS (in fact it is quite likely that they were the perpetrators of this attack). I'm just saying it needs to be evidence and not just hunches and speculations. Blaming it on IS creates surrounds Islam in another barrier of stigma and ignorance (since IS are most certainly not representative of Islam). It also makes it easier (on the media) to brush over the atrocities taking place in the Islamic world, at the hands of countries such as France.

    P.S My heart goes out to victims of this terror attack. Hope that the French community can from this

    AND misguided insults are uncalled for. can we just have a mature and civilised discussion. peace
 
 
 
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