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Why you should vote to LEAVE* the European Union watch

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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    That means that the UK will be worse affected by Trade Tariffs.

    The EU is not going to worse affected by tariffs when 50% of our Exports depend on the EU and only 20% of EU Exports depend on UK.
    Sorry but tariffs are placed on the goods you sell so it's 80 billion more of goods to put a mirrored tariff on.

    How you don't get that point after the third time stating it I don't know.

    You can state percentages all you like the fact remains on the deficit it won't come to tariffs on that fact alone.

    The most likely deal after a brexit is that we comply with rules regulations for eu trade (no different to when we sell to any market) but crucially not domestic trade like we do currently.
    No free movement, no tariffs but we do have to make a budget contribution.

    The last point of which will be our punishment for leaving.

    Mexico for example has all of the above minus the contribution but like people say there will have to be a punishment


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Sorry but tariffs are placed on the goods you sell so it's 80 billion more of goods to put a mirrored tariff on.

    If they put Tariffs on 50% of our exports then we will be worse affected since we can only put Tariffs on 20% of their exports.

    This isn't hard.

    (Original post by paul514)
    The most likely deal after a brexit is that we comply with rules regulations for eu trade (no different to when we sell to any market) but crucially not domestic trade like we do currently.
    No free movement, no tariffs but we do have to make a budget contribution.

    .
    Completely made up.

    Not one EU official has said that the UK would ever such a deal.

    There is absolutely no chance of the UK having Free Trade without Free movement.

    The Budget contribution is mandatory for joining the Free Trade agreement. Every country pays it. To describe it as a punishment shows how deluded you are.
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    We need to stay.

    3.5 million UK jobs are related to the EU, the EU buys over 50% of UK exports, the EU negotiates trade deals with the rest of the world for us, we have lower mobile phone tariffs because of the EU, the EU very often brings in clean energy standards and laws or air quality control, etc, the EU has the power to collectively stand up to large corporations which avoid tax, we have freedom to study and live abroad with ease, driving licenses are valid in the EU, the EU plays a key role in worldwide peacekeeping, the EU puts forward equal pay for men and women, the EU is the world's biggest market, the EU has global influence, the EU helps fight crime through EU-wide arrest warrants and the EU spends a lot of money on research.

    Do we really want to lose some of these things? I know we won't lose all of them, we can still trade with them, but everyone is locked up in the benefits of leaving the EU, consider what the EU actually does and how it benefits us as individuals. Do you really want to jump ship out of the worlds most powerful collective organisation? We are better off sticking with the EU, jumping out of it puts us at massive risk.

    What do we gain from leaving the EU? The ability to create laws, a way to stop some 20,000 immigrants coming here, and that's pretty much it. We are economically worse off alone, we are weaker alone in foreign affairs, we have lower standards outside of the EU. There is no reason to leave, and that's why Corbyn, Miliband, Cameron and Clegg all think we should stay - you've only got buffoons like Gove, Johnson, Farage and Dunan Smith wanting an out.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    If they put Tariffs on 50% of our exports then we will be worse affected since we can only put Tariffs on 20% of their exports.

    This isn't hard.



    Completely made up.

    Not one EU official has said that the UK would ever such a deal.

    There is absolutely no chance of the UK having Free Trade without Free movement.

    The Budget contribution is mandatory for joining the Free Trade agreement. Every country pays it. To describe it as a punishment shows how deluded you are.
    So countries that trade far less with them can have a free trade deal but a country with the 5th soon to be 4th largest economy in the world and an 80 billion trading deficit can't?

    Ok

    Plus keep talking percentages all you like it's about money which brings you right back to the deficit


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    (Original post by mrdisgruntled)
    We need to stay.

    3.5 million UK jobs are related to the EU, the EU buys over 50% of UK exports, the EU negotiates trade deals with the rest of the world for us, we have lower mobile phone tariffs because of the EU, the EU very often brings in clean energy standards and laws or air quality control, etc, the EU has the power to collectively stand up to large corporations which avoid tax, we have freedom to study and live abroad with ease, driving licenses are valid in the EU, the EU plays a key role in worldwide peacekeeping, the EU puts forward equal pay for men and women, the EU is the world's biggest market, the EU has global influence, the EU helps fight crime through EU-wide arrest warrants and the EU spends a lot of money on research.

    Do we really want to lose some of these things? I know we won't lose all of them, we can still trade with them, but everyone is locked up in the benefits of leaving the EU, consider what the EU actually does and how it benefits us as individuals. Do you really want to jump ship out of the worlds most powerful collective organisation? We are better off sticking with the EU, jumping out of it puts us at massive risk.

    What do we gain from leaving the EU? The ability to create laws, a way to stop some 20,000 immigrants coming here, and that's pretty much it. We are economically worse off alone, we are weaker alone in foreign affairs, we have lower standards outside of the EU. There is no reason to leave, and that's why Corbyn, Miliband, Cameron and Clegg all think we should stay - you've only got buffoons like Gove, Johnson, Farage and Dunan Smith wanting an out.
    This is just riddled with *******s


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    (Original post by paul514)
    This is just riddled with *******s


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    I'm glad you took your time to discuss like a gentleman instead of swearing at me for no good reason.
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    I see no reason why I should stay in the UK if we vote to stay in the EU. And even if I stay, there certainly is no point voting. Labour and Tory mean nothing when Britain has the same future regardless
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    (Original post by paul514)
    I can actually.

    Italy doesn't make its own trade deals as it is part of the eu.

    Lol

    So it has something like 9 or 10% of the say on the matter

    Must try harder


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    It actually has 100% say, because it like all member states of EU has power of veto over all EU free trade agreements. It might be useful to familiarize yourself with workings of the EU, and process needed to secure a free trade deal.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    So countries that trade far less with them can have a free trade deal but a country with the 5th soon to be 4th largest economy in the world and an 80 billion trading deficit can't?
    Those countries do not have Free Trade deals allow the completely Free Trade like we do with the EU.

    You can have a half Free Trade with no freedom of Movement. However, that would take years to negotiate.

    Just don't pretend you will have the same Free Trade deal as now with No Freedom of Movement.

    (Original post by paul514)
    Plus keep talking percentages all you like it's about money which brings you right back to the deficit


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    Well, it doesn't bring me to the deficit.

    It isn't my issue, you don't understand the percentages.
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    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    I see no reason why I should stay in the UK if we vote to stay in the EU. And even if I stay, there certainly is no point voting. Labour and Tory mean nothing when Britain has the same future regardless
    Sure, go North Korea or Syria. They don't like democracy either.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Sure, go North Korea or Syria. They don't like democracy either.
    I support the right to vote and will accept the result. I won't voice any euroscepticism as that will be it, done and dusted. I won't attack anyone for the outcome and I won't attack the EU again. But it is my right to leave or not vote is it not?
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    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    I support the right to vote and will accept the result. I won't voice any euroscepticism as that will be it, done and dusted. I won't attack anyone for the outcome and I won't attack the EU again. But it is my right to leave or not vote is it not?
    Sorry. I misread what you wrote.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    No. We just have different subjective philosophies. There is no empirically correct answer. I'm fine with limiting someone's freedom if their freedom oppress someone else. It;s a balancing act where no formulaic dogmatic response is adequate.

    "Freedom in general may be defined as the absence of obstacles to the realization of desires." ~ Bertrand Russell


    If you are a wage slave that can just not psychosocially accumulate enough capital or money to do anything meaningful with their life they are not free. Your system of choice would create an army of wage slaves.
    1) no - there's liberty and then there's "Interests". having no barriers to your desires is an interest which may involve taking away other people's liberties. liberty in the sense of having a right to PURSUE (not to definitely secure 100%) that which might have some kind of practical real world barrier is universal in its form, whereas your kind of interests is based on, like I said, "interests" in that some people get liberty in the literal sense and some don't

    2) why are you quoting bertrand russell as if this is somehow evidence of your claim? why else would you be quoting him? I could quote a huge array of people who disagree with you, but they wouldn't "prove" my claims so what would be the point?

    3) *sigh* do you have any idea how bored I am of people like you who think that freedom MUST involve the satisfaction of one's interests? it's so tiresome because it's so easy to explain how it is inconsistent while people such as yourself clutch to it, and its misunderstood nature, because it basically *sounds* like it is a reasonable approach to freedom, but it's not. a "wage slave" (which is of course a metaphor) is "free" to PURSUE their interests - they are not "entitled" (as opposed to "free"]to them, because if they were entitled to them, that would come at the cost of somebody else's literal liberty, and I'm defining liberty here in a legal sense because to be taxed involves the law reducing your freedom of ownership, whereas basically being unfulfilled in your life or job isn't actually losing your liberty simply because you're being disappointed. liberty has nothing to do with how happy or how fulfilled you happen to be. you can be free and unhappy or unfree while also being happy. if you define the "freedom" of the "wage slave" based on their ability of getting enough money to do what they want, they you could also through this definition suggest that it is the "freedom" of a rapist to rape another person, or the "freedom" of a thief to steal from somebody )it sounds like I'm being extreme here but I'm not; if freedom is your ability to realise your interests at the possible expense of another, then this is consistent) - it's "freedom" that is a zero sum game of not actual liberty but "interests" over how one is ABLE to act. it assumes there is no such thing as desert regarding liberty, and how some people aren't entitled to be "free" to achieve their desires (because it is illegitimate, for example, to achieve these desires if it involves removing other people's freedom, and the other party have done nothing wrong to warrant having it being removed from them)
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    (Original post by mrdisgruntled)
    I'm glad you took your time to discuss like a gentleman instead of swearing at me for no good reason.
    What's the point? It was all *******s you can't even get your figures right and even used the 3 million jobs figure you might want to look up how that was calculated before using it, it's laughable


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    (Original post by paul514)
    What's the point? It was all *******s you can't even get your figures right and even used the 3 million jobs figure you might want to look up how that was calculated before using it, it's laughable


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    Quit crying, we are staying in the EU, kindly walk away with your fascist isolationist views cheers bud
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    (Original post by mrdisgruntled)
    Quit crying, we are staying in the EU, kindly walk away with your fascist isolationist views cheers bud
    I must have slept in for a long time to have missed the referendum


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    I read somewhere recently that leaving the EU won't drastically change the amount of money the UK pays abroad, it's the result of being a member of other organisations that we pay more towards, which we aren't voting on leaving in June...just a point to consider...
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    IMO it'd be better for us to stay in the union, but I kinda want to leave just to see what happens :lol:
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    (Original post by paul514)
    I must have slept in for a long time to have missed the referendum


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    I'm saying there is a low chance that we will leave
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    (Original post by mrdisgruntled)
    I'm saying there is a low chance that we will leave
    Well 3 out of 4 referendums end in no change due to fear of change


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