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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    It depends on the interpretation of 'intentionally' in that definition. For instance, I don't think that sex had while both parties are drunk should count as rape.
    What if the female was extremely intoxicated and the male only barely so?


    If both parties were severely intoxicated?

    Like I said, even supposedly non-radical feminism demands nonsense like the elimination of gender roles, the elimination of a fantasy pay gap and 'gender-balanced' cabinets and boardrooms.
    Depends what you mean by 'elimination of gender roles'. I do not subscribe to such notions, but I also do not subscribe to the notion of a pay gap or the need for a 'gender-balance' (inevitably) at the expense of a meritocratic process.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    1) You're using the defence 'Science isn't true'?! What does that even mean?! That people lied on the survey to fool us? I don't even know what you're getting at with that statement to be honest.
    Interesting that you hold an opinion on gender politics, and that any scientific evidence prevented that runs contrary to it it discarded without consideration. That's exactly the ideological thinking that a religion uses.

    2) So you're saying there's a rape culture in Britain, but not an extreme one? And any evidence at all that there is a widely held belief that sexual harassment is okay? Incidentally, I consider collating things like catcalling with far more serious issues like rape to be pretty awful. Suggesting that they are equatable is frankly degrading to people who have been through the horrendous experience of a sexual assault.

    3) I absolutely have the right to believe what I want to, about what is offensive or damaging to women. At no point have I tried to force my view onto someone else, merely presented my opinion and the evidence supporting it.

    4) See above.

    The fact that you are quite simply ignoring any evidence presented that runs contrary to your belief means any further discussion is utterly pointless. You have faith, and whilst you're entitled to it, it makes debating the issue as futile as trying to debate someone out of their religion. Further, the suggestion that catcalling is in any way on the same level of seriousness as sexual assault and rape is abhorrent, I find it absolutely disgusting. So I shall end my part in this discussion henceforth. Have a good night.
    Clearly we're not going to get anywhere on 1.

    2. You know what i find disgusting, that you think I collated the two together? I didn't do that but it seems to me that you did. I never said they were at ALL the same, infact, I specifically distinguished between the two. As a victim of rape myself, I think I am more than qualified to talk about it.

    3. I never said you didn't have the right to believe what you want.

    lol
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    (Original post by JackEDeakin)
    1. Science is theory, it isn't true, especially when you look at younger generations of women.
    Any sources for that or are you just talking out your arse?
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    (Original post by asexual slug)
    What if the female was extremely intoxicated and the male only barely so?


    If both parties were severely intoxicated?
    'Drunk' in that sense meant too intoxicated to give meaningful consent. I'd agree that it would be rape if only one party was intoxicated.

    Depends what you mean by 'elimination of gender roles'. I do not subscribe to such notions, but I also do not subscribe to the notion of a pay gap or the need for a 'gender-balance' (inevitably) at the expense of a meritocratic process.
    You're certainly a minority, then. The pay gap and the pressing need to have as many women as men in boardrooms, STEM careers, cabinets, etc. isn't a loony, radical view in feminism. It's a mainstream view, and that, at least, can't be blamed on a media conspiracy that only propagates misandry masquerading as feminism.

    It's not just feminism that I refuse to be associated with for this reason -- I no longer claim to be either left or libertarian, for instance. The established mainstream in both those movements made itself impossible to agree or associate with.
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    TSR has literally been having this same argument for at least six years now and I am old and tired.

    There is nothing wrong with being a feminist. You do you.
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    (Original post by aspirinpharmacist)
    TSR has literally been having this same argument for at least six years now and I am old and tired.

    There is nothing wrong with being a feminist. You do you.
    Amen.
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    (Original post by ZoëC)
    Understood, when I said STEM, it is clear that there is perhaps a gap in terms of the portrayal of these roles by women, because people do not expect women to take up these fields. Do you not believe there may be any extraneous factors here, I mean, by omission, in the sense that we weren't so actively encouraged to even get an education a few centuries ago. With regard to this, do you think there's a chance that by conditioning interests into people, they just wont diverge from that path, I know girls who were brought up as pink princesses, and they now wish to be mums, cooking, and have little ambition job wise. It is of course unfair to slate that lifestyle, but the environments we are brought up in, and the opportunities we are presented with are subconsciously partly gender based - take the experiments on how people treated a baby based on the perceived gender, or the lower expectation of daughters success when faced with a physical challenge.

    I find it slightly disturbing that given the clear evidence in society, you would call rape culture a myth. With the common use of 'ting' to refer to women, to the porn industry - "it appeared to be giving young men “permission” to treat women as they see them being treated in porn." This alone is a cause for concern, when there are so many cases of rape in the porn industry, and the fact that there are companies dedicated to producing rape scenarios. Can you really say that there isn't a problem here, when all you have to do is look up a few 'songs' or talk to a few uni lads as they sing their anthems explicitly mentioning taking advantage of women? How many sex workers have to be raped and killed before its an issue?

    My sister proves my point even more as she told me her year group had a talk about consent etc. who told these girls that if they say yes once, they can't back out, who told them that they can't be raped by a partner, who told them that backing out of unwanted sex was cowardly, 'frigid', a 'prude?
    I completely agree rape culture isn't a myth.
    It is a LIE
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    IMO its mainly due to the definition. Many people believe that a feminist is some sort of man hating being, when in actual fact, a feminist is someone who believes in equality in everything.
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    (Original post by under8ed)
    I said 'people like you' because instead of replying to my point in a civilised manner, you resorted to picking out errors in what I said.

    You're question was generically addressing feminists and why they are, and very few feminists fight for the rights of women in the whole world. I'm fully in support of feminists who do do this, but in general those who identify themselves as feminists dont.

    Please dont try to make me look like a bad guy, its not my problem you immediately assume that i am trying to be patronizing.
    I wasn't picking out your errors, I was just highlighting that the statement you said did not make sense as you were contradicting myself. And there was no need for you to use the terms 'people like you' you bought that on yourself - what else was I supposed to think you were meaning by using that phrase?

    Also, I would say actually quite a lot of feminists support equality everywhere, it is only the minority that have blown it up to look like something it isn't.
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    (Original post by Macy1998)
    Um, hello. Hope ya don't mind commenting on your comment. I totally agree that no woman should be in the wrong or gain blame for rape. However women should take precautions especially if they happen to be in the "bad" part of a town or "nowhere". Of course people should be able to wear whatever but that doesn't mean the people surrounding them will respect them or take signs of that. Dressing "naked" makes that woman vulnerable and open to sexual assault from strangers. I think learning self defense is way more efficient instead of relying on others to respect people's fashion. Rapists do not care about their victim's feelings and that is why they're called rapists.
    Yes, obviously it makes sense that people should be more careful like you said, especially in the rougher areas-learning self defence is a good idea too. My point was how victim blaming should not be a thing. The victim never asked to be rape, so why make it seem like it was their own fault?

    It's kind of like saying, oh you're rich, well sorry then, you were just asking to be robbed.
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    (Original post by djh2208)
    I don't know anyone who genuinely thinks that women who wear certain clothes deserve to get raped. Not one person.
    I do know a few people who think this, it was quite shocking actually..
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    Honestly people on TSR overreact so much and hide behind their computers. I see so much harmful crap here that I never see in real life, or if I do it's a very rare occasion. People in real life are usually on board with feminism, so ignore people on here.

    Also: the term feminazi is absolutely disgusting. Explain to me how the feminism movement is in anyway similar to a regime that tortured and murdered millions of innocents?
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    Feminism originally started with the thirst to bring equality to genders and later streamlined to how females are better than males . It's lost its mission and women , day by day are succumbing to feminism without realising its original motive .
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    (Original post by Arsenal96)
    I disagree with feminism and oppose all feminists. Instead I believe in equal rights
    You oppose all feminists? Yet, I am a feminist believing equal rights and you oppose my viewpoint even though we essentially want the same thing, just define it with different words?
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    (Original post by samharrison)
    because it's boring

    achieve something if you want to be taken seriously
    It's boring? Are you really being serious right now? Newsflash, feminism is not about entertaining you nor me. It's about establishing the fact that we need equal rights. I'm sorry you find the topic so 'boring.'

    Feminism has achieved so much in the past, just to put down a few examples, without it women would not have had the right to vote and would find it extremely difficult to find work.
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    (Original post by asexual slug)
    What if the female was extremely intoxicated and the male only barely so?


    If both parties were severely intoxicated?
    .
    Intoxicated or not, as long as both parties have given consent, it is not rape.

    However, if someone has not given consent (whether they be drunk or not) then it can be considered rape.
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    (Original post by supernerdural)
    Honestly people on TSR overreact so much and hide behind their computers. I see so much harmful crap here that I never see in real life, or if I do it's a very rare occasion. People in real life are usually on board with feminism, so ignore people on here.

    Also: the term feminazi is absolutely disgusting. Explain to be how the feminism movement is in anyway similar to a regime that tortured and murdered millions of innocents?
    Thank you!

    I don't understand it either, it is portrayed to be such a horrible thing when in reality it's just ordinary people who are fighting for themselves...
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    I must admit I don't even know what a feminist is. I could google it of course but there's no need because I can't imagine what's wrong with someone being a feminist.

    I mean to say that if feminists were in any way a problem surely I as a male would have felt the affects by now wouldn't I ?


    Yet there's never been a time in my life when I've been able to sleep with women so easily,or make money from an occupation that women are strangely reticent to enter or watch porn 24/7.

    What do feminists do exactly then?

    I don't think I've even met one.

    Keep up the good work whatever it might be.


    Cheers
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    By that logic anything you think about anything is a stereotype am I supposed to speak to every single feminist and if one says something different I can not say that feminist think the way the majority do
    But sterotyping is something most people go against as you are just catergorising a bunch of people and assuming that as one person acts like 'this' so do all of them.

    You do not need to speak to every single feminist to find out that only the minority can be classed as radical feminists. Just, maybe next time try to give someone the benefit of the doubt without assuming that they all want to kill of men or something...
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    (Original post by Blondie987)
    People have different ideas about feminism and many other beliefs/movements depending on their experience with them I personally believe that being a feminist means fighting for both men and women and the goal is equality for all genders but some people feel that feminism is not like that at all, I think most people genuinely do want equality but we just have different names for it
    Most feminists would say the same as you

    Very few feminists would actively support male issues as supporting male issues is to the detriment of female

    Most feminists (like any other movement) only see the evidence in their favour - there should be a public outcry that men do worst at school but this is seen as a 'success' due to feminism, that women get paid significantly more per hour below the age of 40 years is seen as a bad thing that won't be right until women of all ages get paid significantly more per hour, etc.

    Feminists patronise saying they care for all and are unwilling, like you apparently, to accept that most actually do not and have their own vested interests at heart.
 
 
 
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