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    people who look at this thinking that all they want is more pay are delusional cnts
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And you know that I am entirely for a good nationalisation of the NHS, although if history is anything to go by it would not be privatised well
    I don't know what exactly you want from a national health service, except cost effectiveness, which you won't really be able to remove unless you physically exclude services and deregulate them. Private services cant improve services that REQUIRE such tight regulation, as has been a cause of alot of fines for private services.

    As a medic I find a private service tolerable in the sense that people who can afford it can get sky TV and lots of freebies. In exchange I need that to cover the cost of some of the NHS services to bring that up to standard. Costs will continue to spiral too while no government actually tackles obesity.

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    (Original post by Larry31)
    But we don't get free education. We have to pay full university tuition fees for 4 years of our course, meaning I will have paid a total of £36,000 for my education by the time I graduate (without taking into account living and travel costs). Most degrees are only 3 years in length which would cost a student £27,000. I don't know where this idea that we get our education for free has come from, but its certainly far from the truth.
    If I want to be a practicing solicitor/barrister I could well end up paying more than that anyway because I don't get given a year for free.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    If I want to be a practicing solicitor/barrister I could well end up paying more than that anyway because I don't get given a year for free.


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    You also have chosen a profession where there are far more graduates than jobs


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    You have a lack of insight. The government have imposed their will on a population that work hugely in excess of the hours they are paid for. We are struggling to manage the service we have as there is a severe shortage of doctors and nurses. In order to run a seven day service those staff will have to increase the hours they work and in no time we will be back to the 90 hour weeks that happened in the early 90's. The junior doctors worked on contracts that at night earnt them an hourly rate that was less than the porters and it was entirely normal for the doctor that attended you following an RTA on a Sunday afternoon to have been working non stop, often only with an hour or two's sleep since 7.30 on the Friday morning. How can we go back to that? The BMA have been trying to sort this out for years ,we in the medical professions all know how serious this is.This action is a last result. There will still be cover in emergencies from the consultants, they have the skill and the knowledge the juniors don't yet have. Remember they are the ones that worked the 90 hour weeks and will get the job done.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    I've heard it quoted on the daily politics numerous times but here's a link for 700k for a start http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advic...han_we_need%3F


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    That's to train someone to consultant level.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    If I want to be a practicing solicitor/barrister I could well end up paying more than that anyway because I don't get given a year for free.


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    You have to appreciate that during our 'free' year in 5th year, we actually spend most of our time integrated as part of the team on the ward/in GP and are actually doing the job of an F1 doctor under close supervision. Its not like we spend the day in the lecture theatre, we are actually working on the ward with our own patients to look after. I believe that is why the NHS pays for our final year - because by that point we are actually working in the NHS.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    That's to train someone to consultant level.
    It's to train someone past junior doctor stage that could well be a consultant it could be a gp .....


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It's to train someone past junior doctor stage that could well be a consultant it could be a gp .....


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    Indeed, but we're talking about 'training a doctor' in the context of medical student costs. That kind of implies we're talking about training through medical school which certainly does not equal a consultant or a GP.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    Indeed, but we're talking about 'training a doctor' in the context of medical student costs. That kind of implies we're talking about training through medical school which certainly does not equal a consultant or a GP.
    It also apparently includes our salaries (or at least part of them) for the time in training, which is rather disingenuous given that a)we are actually working and providing a service to the NHS during that time, b)we are paying tax on those salaries and c)also funding large amounts out of our own pockets.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    Indeed, but we're talking about 'training a doctor' in the context of medical student costs. That kind of implies we're talking about training through medical school which certainly does not equal a consultant or a GP.
    Most people consider that a gp is the archetypal doctor and why shouldn't those costs be included? Junior doctors are still in a training phase


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Most people consider that a gp is the archetypal doctor and why shouldn't those costs be included? Junior doctors are still in a training phase


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    Well this figure is being discussed in the context of paying for university fees, so I don't see how the 7+ years post-graduation are relevant.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    Well this figure is being discussed in the context of paying for university fees, so I don't see how the 7+ years post-graduation are relevant.
    No that's what you want to talk about it's a fact they aren't a fully trained doctor until they finish junior status and thus the costs should be included.

    Also the only reason this was brought up was to show the amount of time and money the government would need to put into medical education just to make their policy work


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